Alien Equipment descriptions

[Patupi]

First, I apologize if these points have been covered elsewhere already. I've searched here and haven't found anything on them, but I haven't perused the entire forum yet! Plus I haven't pre-ordered yet and thus haven't tried the Alpha version to see how things work in game so far.

Descriptions.

One thing that bugged me about most games of this type is that your soldiers in the field find a dead alien and his weapon, pick it up and... 'Oh, it's a plasma rifle'. Names of technology (or aliens themselves) are immediately apparent when they show up in most of these types of games. Personally I'd prefer placeholders based on the order in which they show up in game ('Alien-Type Alpha', 'Alien Rifle 01' etc) and once research has been done then replace these placeholders with 'plasma rifle' etc. With placeholder variables the names can be replaced everywhere in the game fairly easily (if care is made in the placeholder names versus the final names)

Reverse engineering.

Are alien artifacts going to be manufacturable (if that's a word)? In Xcom1 once you research plasma rifles you could build them and the ammo for them easily and that always seemed odd to me. I can understand making a version of the ammo for it (works on alien weapons, but gives less shots or something), and making a human designed weapon based on the technology but copying the alien tech perfectly despite the vast gulf between the two techs always seemed silly. Plus having one research field for reverse engineering then another (or more than one) for understanding the underlying tech and then reproducing it seemed more realistic

[Sathra]

Having placeholder names is just adding stuff for the sake of it. It always seems silly. I mean, its a rifle-shaped thing that shoots plasma = plasma rifle. Its just better to keep the names generic, and its much more helpful if you know what the heck stuff is rather than getting research projects for "alien weapon 3" or whatever.

You make your own versions of alien weapons. They have different art (and might have slightly different stats). The reverse engineering is to understand the concept enough to make your own with better ergonomics/no crazy security features.

Laser weapons are the 'first test' series of energy weapons. You need to capture alien gear to even start researching basic laser tech. This, and the manufacturing requirements for all the laser weapons (all 5-6 types), i.e. time, money and having to manufacture the ammo too, should help to extend the ballistic era so you don't switch directly in a month. Should take about 2.

You can't research plasma weapons without researching laser weapons either.

[Patupi]

On the 'realism' side (not always viable in a game I know) how does a trooper in the field know it's 'shooting plasma'? He might as well call it a deathray (or more realistically a flame gun? Flaming death gun? FDG? hmmm?). But for game functionality I can understand why you don't have placeholders, but still... I assume there are non-weapon techs to find, and how does anyone know what a scanner, grav belt, or some similar tech is on the spur of the moment?

On the laser tech tree, sounds good. In another thread I mentioned that I guessed laser tech would be more based on acquisition of alien energy cells. 1970's CO2 lasers are enough to do damage to a target if they are a little bulky but capacitors, batteries would make them impractical (and I don't think they'd have adaptive optics back then to stretch the range either)

[81dB]

I guess they don't know "for sure", but words are just a tool of communication.

E.g. soldier in the field sees alien fire his weapon and completely destroys one of their tanks. The ammunition seems to be "balls of hot plasma", as nothing else can cut through tank armor so easily, therefore the military labels those guns "plasma guns". Future encounters are briefed with the new vocabulary, and when XCOM reverse engineers this technology, the newly created weapons fire a similar "hot plasma" as its ammunition, forever cementing it into the vocabulary of the Earthlings.

It's usually the first person who decides what something is called, and if the reporting soldier calls it a plasma gun, then everyone should call it a plasma gun so we can all be on the same page.

[Chris]

I think X-Com had it right - any alien item that's been picked up on the battlefield and not researched is just an 'Alien Artefact'. That's not in the game yet but I imagine we'll put it in at some point.

[Lobster Man Commander]

I think X-Com had the most natural "feel" to their take on it too. You have a much easier time picturing the highly educated scientists figuring out what the various artifacts are meant for;

This is a rifle, that is a handgun, that over there is some sort of heavy cannon... And so on.

So when you get back to base and opt to chose what tech to pick for research topic #1. The Scientists have already labeled the projects in a manner that explain their function. But overall its a tiny detail in the big picture. Its much more important that the artifacts/weaponry look good. And in my opinion it looks outstanding! -at least what I've seen so far

[Sathra]

Forgot about the 'Alien Artefact' thing. But yeah, research topics should use the general name of the item.

As for why they assume its plasma, isn't any weapon that doesn't shoot lasers/lighting generally called a 'plasma' weapon?

Debriefing:

"What did it shoot?"

"Blue energy"

"Like a laser?"

"Nah, like...blobs. Like a comet!"

Talking to the scientists:

"He says it shot 'blue comet blobs'. What do you think it is?"

*shrug* "Plasma?"

"Plasma it is!"

[thewatcher]

Debriefing:

"What did it shoot?"

"Blue energy"

"Like a laser?"

"Nah, like...blobs. Like a comet!"

Talking to the scientists:

"He says it shot 'blue comet blobs'. What do you think it is?"

*shrug* "Plasma?"

"Plasma it is!"

rofl

[Gauddlike]

I want to research Blue Comet Blob Guns (BCBG's).

Although Red Comet Blob Guns (RCBG's) fire faster.

[anotherdevil]

Seconded. Come on Chris, you know you want to put it in...!

[Patupi]

As long as they are laser propelled blue comet blob guns

[Sathra]

Lol.

Technically though, BCBG's are the current plasma weapons. That's just what the shots look like to me.

As for RCBG's, the Iceland Incident story does mention alien heavy weapons firing red energy...

[anotherdevil]

hmmmmm, I hope the name makes it into the game, even the abbreviation, as a little easter egg =p

[Haddock]

I want some of them CBG's in any colour!

[Bibidibop]

I like Patupi's idea. At first I thought it was not worth while, but I can see it as a little bit of flavor that might be enjoyable.

In the game, the way I envision this working is, a soldier finds a particular alien weapon for the first time, and it gets named very generically, as Patupi proposed. Once you get back to base, it is going to pick up a nick name immediately, but it will also pick up a military designation. That, Alien Pistol, can become the XN-P01 (Xeno Pistol 1) "Pocket Rocket". Researching the weapon can expand the code name by describing what the weapon fires. That XN-P01, may gain a XN-P01-P for plasma, or XN-P01-L for laser. That in turn can lead to an XMP-1 (Experimental Pistol Model 1), which would lead to the production version, the M-1. Something like that; it can be either more or less confusing as desired.

[Patupi]

As long as all places that you can access the item have a graphic of it then that should work fine. You need a clear link between development of the names and the item itself. If there are instances in the game where only a name is used with no graphic it could be tricky.

I suppose in the Xenopedia (or whatever it's called) you could have both names... or even add names as the become used. IE to begin with have the pre-research screen "Alien artifact 01- This weapon seems to be an unknown alien energy weapon. We need to research it as soon as possible", and later once researched "Plasma Rifle (Alien artifact 01)- an alien energy weapon that heat gas to several thousand degrees celcius and accelerates the charged plasma towards the target" With place holder names it shouldn't be hard to fill in names as they develop even on older 'pedia entries (or elsewhere in the game)

[Gauddlike]

I don't like the idea of multiple names for a single item.

A pre-research name and a final name should be more than sufficient.

As has been said designating something as an Alien Rifle, Superior Alien Rifle, Advanced Alien Rifle etc shouldn't be hard to do if it is basically rifle shaped/sized or has been seen in action.

Anything without an obvious purpose should be simply Alien Artifact - 001 etc.

Using the advanced and superior tags gives a clue to the tier of the item and can be kept on the xenopedia page along with the more technical information as it is also a valid description.

[Patupi]

I agree, two names, a before analysis and an after analysis, should be ample. And yes, listing it as 'alien rifle' makes sense for most weapons, plus it may be misleading. A 'heavy Plasma' could be simply labeled 'alien rifle', without any indication of the build etc. Some weapons might not be obvious how they're used other than they've seen to BE weapons when used by the enemy. Thus 'Alien weapon' maybe for some?

[Gauddlike]

I was thinking more like Alien Heavy Weapon in that sort of case.

It is an alien weapon that looks pretty heavy.

[anotherdevil]

Yeah basic, ambiguous, but not too ambiguous

[Bagsman]

I swear in EU you could research lasers without any alien technology acquired from a ground mission.

In my head it made sense. Like, the laser tech was the most advanced and secret techology humanity could manage to muster up to bring against the threat of the aliens (and we did, after all, have laser technology for a long time, in a fictional world, or even the real world, it would be possible that hand-held laser weaponry exists in secret research labs or.. something like that) until you get your hands on more advanced technology (plasma etc) and start reverse engineering that. So I was a bit baffled by the choice to make laser weapons unavailable until after alien stuff had been found and researched.

Also, on a related note (sorry for thread-jack). Are there going to be any other weapon technology tiers other than conventional, laser & plasma?

[iamkyon]

Also, on a related note (sorry for thread-jack). Are there going to be any other weapon technology tiers other than conventional, laser & plasma?

There will be four tiers total, with the highest being kept secret until closer to release.

[anotherdevil]

I swear in EU you could research lasers without any alien technology acquired from a ground mission.

That's because X-Com was set in the near future, not the 70s. We still don't have hand held laser weapon tech.

And yeah there are more than 2 extra weapon tiers as far as I'm aware

[Sathra]

What AD said. Chris has made a couple coy comments about there being an extra tier above plasma tech. Not sure if the aliens get another tier as well though.