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Zaphk

Bad accuracy = false difficulty

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Hey guys, here's my two cents about the game.

I really like xenonaut but the game is suffering the same problem Xcom:ennemy unknown has ('til you mod it) ; the soldiers can't shot an elephant right in front of them.

I know how to manage my guys but don't tell me a navy seal cannot shot a single alien standing in the open at a distance of twenty feets.

On the other hand the aliens are freaking snipin' everyone. Even the half-blind lizards who're supposed to be good only at "middle/short range" often shoots down my soldiers hiding in cover 100ft away.

I've got no problems being outpowered by alien techs but here the only real difficulty i'm facing is the bad accuracy.

I mean, even with 70+ accuracy and aiming my guys are still missing "un-missable" shots.

From my point of view the difficulty should be to keep up the pace with the aliens sending more and more advanced/well equiped troops and not trying to get soldiers that can aim with a tiny bit of accuracy.

I've tried almost everything before posting here but the issue is real. Sure you can get used to it and bypass it in the long run, but it's still here and can cost you many good soldiers because the accuracy is litteraly killing some situations where you should have had a tactical advantage but got rekt because aliens are hotshots and your "elite" navy seal got the aim of an old asthmatic half-blind penguin.

Next step for me is looking if there is a mod that tweak aiming/accuracy because i don't feel going through a full game shooting fences and windows while the aliens decimate my guys.

That aside, the game is really good.

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I know how to manage my guys but don't tell me a navy seal cannot shot a single alien standing in the open at a distance of twenty feets.

Of course a Navy Seal can do that, but that's not what's really happening. What is really happening is that this Navy Seal is running, dodging, checking surroundings and whatnot, and the alien is doing the same (and would be pretty stupid not to do so and just stand still), and under such circumstances it's perfectly normal to miss (in real fights, majority of shots usually miss).

You are most probably confused by the fact that the game has paused the situation for you (since it's TU/turn based game). Also, you might want to check what your right mouse button does if you haven't figured that out (interestingly, that happens to many people).

On the other hand the aliens are freaking snipin' everyone. Even the half-blind lizards who're supposed to be good only at "middle/short range" often shoots down my soldiers hiding in cover 100ft away.

They are just lucky. Your soldiers can also "often" hit improbable shots.

I mean, even with 70+ accuracy and aiming my guys are still missing "un-missable" shots.

There are no un-missable shots.

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Addition to ilunak.

Even an alien is blind he can shoot u better with other senses. . Did u try to use enemy weapons? U would fail to shot badly. Because that weapons are not working like our weapons and the aiming system is different.

You don't have only guns.. Smoke flash grenades are here for a reason. You got shields and vehicles for a reason. Heavy machine guns and snipers got penalty when they move before fire.. u can't just jump in front of an enemy with a low cover with bad armour without shield and expect to stay alive..

This is not a real life simulation. It's a game with Xcom rules for Xcom fans.. this is a chess game with rules it's own. If u don't like the rules u can mod them and change its taste for your liking.

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As i said ;

[...]

I've tried almost everything before posting here but the issue is real.

[...]

I've played Xcom a looot and many turn based/rts games. Of course i know how to use TU for aiming, but even a full aimed shot on a straight line doesn't connect most of the time. Assuming this is the first action your soldier do this turn there shouldn't be a malus so high that he miss every shots. It's beyond being under pressure.

So yeah, i could roll with grenades and launchers all the game 'till my soldiers got decent gear/accuracy but that's far from the fun i got playing Xcom; EU (long war mod, check it out if you got Xcom;EU it's worth a shot) or even the old Xcom. (And god, the aim was so much worse)

Sorry if my point didn't get through my complaints ; what i wish for the game is deadlier aliens and less concern about accuracy/aiming.

Maybe i'm still not used to all the mechanics but i'm spending more time trying to find the right spot for shooting than actually caring not to be blasted to pieces.

Sure it's quite a situation to fight Reptilian and human-like creatures for the soldiers, but they're not fresh rookies coming out of the academy, when Cpl Dude is from the Navy you expect him to know how to manage stressfull situations and not empty is clip on everything but his target.

It's not a major game breaking issue, far from it. But from my point of view some tweaking could be done in the vanilla version of the game. Since i guess the mods out there rework it in some ways.

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Hey guys, here's my two cents about the game.

I really like xenonaut but the game is suffering the same problem Xcom:ennemy unknown has ('til you mod it) ; the soldiers can't shot an elephant right in front of them.

I know how to manage my guys but don't tell me a navy seal cannot shot a single alien standing in the open at a distance of twenty feets.

On the other hand the aliens are freaking snipin' everyone. Even the half-blind lizards who're supposed to be good only at "middle/short range" often shoots down my soldiers hiding in cover 100ft away.

I've got no problems being outpowered by alien techs but here the only real difficulty i'm facing is the bad accuracy.

I mean, even with 70+ accuracy and aiming my guys are still missing "un-missable" shots.

From my point of view the difficulty should be to keep up the pace with the aliens sending more and more advanced/well equiped troops and not trying to get soldiers that can aim with a tiny bit of accuracy.

I've tried almost everything before posting here but the issue is real. Sure you can get used to it and bypass it in the long run, but it's still here and can cost you many good soldiers because the accuracy is litteraly killing some situations where you should have had a tactical advantage but got rekt because aliens are hotshots and your "elite" navy seal got the aim of an old asthmatic half-blind penguin.

Next step for me is looking if there is a mod that tweak aiming/accuracy because i don't feel going through a full game shooting fences and windows while the aliens decimate my guys.

That aside, the game is really good.

I'm pretty sure everything that's going wrong is your fault, but I'll quickly program a mod to make the game a little easier for you.

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Yea, accuracy formula is a bit artificial. I understand the intention to make it work closer to the XCOM, but there could be a better formula, that would imitate XCOM aiming in most situation, but in extreme cases it would work more realistic. If we look at a physically realistic picture, the projection of the far standing alien to the vision sphere is tiny, like 2-3 degrees of vision field. And it allows like 10% hit chance. So, dispersion of shooting is about 20-30 degrees. So, if alien is standing realy close in 1-3 squares from the soldier, its projection is about 30-60 degrees. Which is more than dispersion, and should give 100%.

I can't say that I'm not satisfied with the actual aiming system, it feels rather dair. Bot sometimes it feels a bit not too realistic, especially on those short distances.

Also, there's sometimes a strange situation happening: there's a barrier between my heavy weapon soldier and an alien. It blocks 100%. I aim alien, soldier starts bursting. First few shots destroy the barrier. So, all other bullets should fly further to the alien. But they all shoot the point where the barrier was. As if I would aim it. In physically realistic aiming mode they should have fly to alien direction. And sometimes they do fly to the alien. But sometimes don't (I think it usually work this way inside alien ships).

And finally, the whole cover system. There's the same complaint as before: too artificial, not too realistic. Like in this situation: there are 3 barriers between soldier and alien. Why only one barrier gives that x% block? And usually it's not the one alien hiding behind (which supposed to cover like 80% of alien body, and therefore reduce accuracy by 80%).

Anyway, I hope in the new games, which are meant to be 3d, aiming will be physically correct and thus realistic on all ranges. Unity physics engine has some nice instruments for that, those raycasts and stuff.

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And finally, the whole cover system. There's the same complaint as before: too artificial, not too realistic. Like in this situation: there are 3 barriers between soldier and alien. Why only one barrier gives that x% block? And usually it's not the one alien hiding behind (which supposed to cover like 80% of alien body, and therefore reduce accuracy by 80%).

Zolden, think what you're writing down through for a moment. When calculating the path of non-indirect shot to the target, the game selects the piece of terrain which has the highest blocking value out of all pieces of terrain which may potentially block the shot getting to the target. If there are several pieces of terrain which have the same blocking value, it selects just one of them. If every piece of terrain were considered as part of the calculation of shot, either as a separate blocking test per item of terrain or as some form of a cumulative terrain calculation then the condition you complain of in your opening post - that too many shots miss - would be far worse than it is now. Most of the maps and map types are rich in objects that partially or completely block terrain. This richness adds to the diversity of maps, but would be frustrating if all intersecting terrain (barring cover) were factored into the final shot. If your opening post is anything to go by, I would have thought you would not want all blocking terrain to be considered as that would make the game even more frustrating for you!

FYI: Cover is calculated separately to terrain blocking the path of shot and is not given sufficent visual clues in 1.09 (although it is in CE).

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Max_Caine

Yea, what you explained is simple and practical. My only concern is that stuff works unpredictable and unnatural in some cases becasue of the system choosen. And opening post wasn't mine. You think all nicknames look the same if they starting with Z letter?

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Happy newyear ppl! and yes Aiming on the rookies is unreliable at best, also i realy don't recomend leaving your guys on "snap shot" reaction fire....it makes for worse facepalming material than xcom:enemy unknown's panic friendly fire. :rolleyes:

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