X-DIVISION New Mod, New Ideas, New Disscussions

[drages]

This is madness!!!

[XenoneX]

This is madness!!!

This is Sparta!!!

[Man of Doge]

This is madness!!!

No, it just explains why I don't have any Alien Computers. :3

EDIT: Whoops~ I deleted a random file in the FiTH Mod and suddenly I got meh Alien Computrons. :3

Edited January 8, 2015 by Man of Doge

[NuclearStudent]

Drages, may I make a suggestion? All of your weapons seem to be rather expensive. For instance, each tier of ballistic weapons all cost 10s of thousand, and a player would realistically skip a tier or two throughout the course of the game.

I would suggest lowering the cost and manhours of manufacture, but requiring the weapon from the tier below. That would add some micromanagement but also prevent the existence of many obsolete tiers of weaponry.

[drages]

No, it just explains why I don't have any Alien Computers. :3

EDIT: Whoops~ I deleted a random file in the FiTH Mod and suddenly I got meh Alien Computrons. :3

Fith is changing ufo interiors so it's normal some bad things happen with X div

[drages]

Drages, may I make a suggestion? All of your weapons seem to be rather expensive. For instance, each tier of ballistic weapons all cost 10s of thousand, and a player would realistically skip a tier or two throughout the course of the game.

I would suggest lowering the cost and manhours of manufacture, but requiring the weapon from the tier below. That would add some micromanagement but also prevent the existence of many obsolete tiers of weaponry.

U can't jump another tier at this mod without researching another. Only laser can be acquired but u still need ballistic research to get specials.

[Reactorcore]

U can't jump another tier at this mod without researching another. Only laser can be acquired but u still need ballistic research to get specials.

This is not about research, its about actually manufacturing and using the laser weapons.

I agree with Nuclear, in my playthrough I skipped manufacturing/using lasers because their price was so high that it was a better idea to wait for plasma or wave research to finish and manufacture those weapons instead.

[NuclearStudent]

I was talking about actually building the weapons.

Right now, once AdvancedNextGen ballistics are researched Next Gen ballistics are obsolete. I'm suggest building an advanced next gen pistol require a Next Gen pistol, so weapons are upgraded over time.

Next Gen pistol->Advanced next pistol-> SPEAR pistol and so on.

[drages]

Hmm i saw what u mean now..

I thought this before.. but i saw that at later there becomes a lame manufacture chain.. U need to craft a gun, then another than another..

But the question is how did u wait plasma without using lasers before? How did u pass aliens with balistic resistance? But you played 0.92.. so something changed..

There is something important.. spear serie is not better then nextgens.. spear got mitigation with lower damage.. but dont care them so much because they are still "basic tech".. DO NOT pass all researchs because u cant get special weapons if u pass others..

If you dont think a weapon is no need for u after some tests, u can go wihout manufacturing it.. the game has 100+ weapon now.. u wont manufacture all.. i guessed it as i am doing this mod.

Laser weapons are specially important because its open very powerful special weapons even the simple laser is not so powerful.

[Reactorcore]

Hmm i saw what u mean now..

I thought this before.. but i saw that at later there becomes a lame manufacture chain.. U need to craft a gun, then another than another..

But the question is how did u wait plasma without using lasers before? How did u pass aliens with balistic resistance? But you played 0.92.. so something changed..

Used grenades a lot, nextgen ballistics destroy the armor. I needed 4-6 guys to kill one alien sometimes, but completely doable.

I pretty much did the same back in vanilla and XNT, I used ballistics until I got to MAG weapons and only then upgraded them. Skipped both lasers and plasma that way. Much more efficient and cheaper. I might have less firepower with guns and don't build any armor for half of the game, but I did have lots of grenades with me and I just hide behind cover much more.

[Man of Doge]

Fith is changing ufo interiors so it's normal some bad things happen with X div

Yep, that would be the quirky part; Editing one prop spectere can magically cause a completely unrelated file to be made incompatible.

[Man of Doge]

Used grenades a lot, nextgen ballistics destroy the armor. I needed 4-6 guys to kill one alien sometimes, but completely doable.

I pretty much did the same back in vanilla and XNT, I used ballistics until I got to MAG weapons and only then upgraded them. Skipped both lasers and plasma that way. Much more efficient and cheaper. I might have less firepower with guns and don't build any armor for half of the game, but I did have lots of grenades with me and I just hide behind cover much more.

Several Questions:

1. How many soldiers did you lose going about things that way?

2. What did you do if there was little/no cover?

3. How many Terror Missions did you lose doing that?

4. How many times did an alien one-shot your unarmored soldiers?

5. Was it frustrating, or boring to have to sit there until an enemy caved?

[NuclearStudent]

It's actually not as bad as you would think. I've tried a strategy very much like his.

1. The only time I really take many losses was when I was experimenting with new strategies. Specifically, learning how to breach UFOs with limited firepower. Gas/electro shock spam never changes.

2. You can do the predator thing, and spray a machine gun in the path ahead of you and listen for screams. I've killed a few civilians this way, but also discovered aliens. Usually, a single shield spots for a machine gunner/rocketeer barrage.

3. Rocket spam works. It loses money because of the destroyed artifacts, but it's better than nothing.

4. On Insane difficulty soldiers in Jackal armour are consistently one shot killed by rifles anyway. I only bothered to put Jackal armour on those with good health. I've never gone completely without armour, but armour and cover won't save your soldiers. If you end your turn within sight of the enemy and you aren't obscenely protected by many layers of cover and/or smoke, you are probably dead.

Xenonaut cover has always been about controlling line of sight, and the presence or absence of armour doesn't matter as much as you might think.

5. It's always the optimal strategy to camp and wait for the enemy, armour or no. That's a problem because of the inherent design of Xenonauts. Again, UFO breaches are tricky without powerful carbines, and take about 45 minutes to do safely.

In short, playing Xenonauts with little armour or weapons is doable, but you lose motivation to play the game because of how slow it is.

[Man of Doge]

It's actually not as bad as you would think. I've tried a strategy very much like his.

1. The only time I really take many losses was when I was experimenting with new strategies. Specifically, learning how to breach UFOs with limited firepower. Gas/electro shock spam never changes.

4. On Insane difficulty soldiers in Jackal armour are consistently one shot killed by rifles anyway. I only bothered to put Jackal armour on those with good health. I've never gone completely without armour, but armour and cover won't save your soldiers. If you end your turn within sight of the enemy and you aren't obscenely protected by many layers of cover and/or smoke, you are probably dead.

Xenonaut cover has always been about controlling line of sight, and the presence or absence of armour doesn't matter as much as you might think.

5. It's always the optimal strategy to camp and wait for the enemy, armour or no. That's a problem because of the inherent design of Xenonauts. Again, UFO breaches are tricky without powerful carbines, and take about 45 minutes to do safely.

In short, playing Xenonauts with little armour or weapons is doable, but you lose motivation to play the game because of how slow it is.

1. TBH it's easier to breach Ceasan UFOs in X-Division than it is in the Vanilla game. Probably because the aliens love to stick right by the door.

4. Pretty true, but I've seen 99% Hit shots miss, so I'm open to the fact that that distance can save my soldiers' asses. On insane mode I'd have to agree, but on Veteran I still find that even a little armour can save my soldiers from blows that otherwise would've been fatal (BTW that cannon on the Alien Light Drone is like a Sniping Minigun.)

5. Have you ever tried to take a Scout UFO from 7 X-Divison Ceasans with only two soldiers left? You'd be surprised as to how easy it is... :3

[Reactorcore]

Several Questions:

1. How many soldiers did you lose going about things that way?

2. What did you do if there was little/no cover?

3. How many Terror Missions did you lose doing that?

4. How many times did an alien one-shot your unarmored soldiers?

5. Was it frustrating, or boring to have to sit there until an enemy caved?

1. Very few. Usually because I let it happen out of lazyness. As in, "10TU? 20TU? will that be enough to get back to cover? Bah, just rush this guy. Too lazy to count." or "Play it safe this turn and wait for more dudes to gang up on this alien or just leeroy-jenkins my dude with a gun with a 50-50 chance to hit and hope that it hits? bah you guys are too slow, LEEEROOOY!"

Mind you, I take great care not to put my guys in suicidal situations and always keep a tight understanding of the map and revealed areas, so I always know where aliens cannot be. Even with the above example of leeroy lazyness, I knew for sure that the guy could kill him if he did hit and that his chance to hit was relatively high enough to trust it.

2. Shields dudes with flash bangs suppress long range targets and get close to be come a priority target for the alien to shoot at during the next turn, while the guys with guns come just behind him and either take a shot or just get into position to annihilate the enemy the next turn.

3. None

4. Couple of times. Not often though. I did my best to keep unarmored gun-toting dudes outside of alien's visual range, while have the guy with the shield remain visible to bait the aliens to shoot their load at the shield. Most death come when an alien decides to explore and accidentally finds my guy hiding behind a building corner. This, of course, is only if the overwatch fails to supress/kill/unmotivate the alien to shoot at my guy.

5. It was rather aggressive play, actually. I'd almost say my strategy was a bit too fast and reckless at times, only ever having one or two turns max per ground combat mission when closing in on the ufo door, just to see if an alien would pop out and reveal who is inside before pinching down with all my troops around the door to shred the aliens to pieces.

Btw, I also wanted to mention that I really love doing this every playthrough:

On the first UFO ground combat mission, I use about 20 flashbangs to stun and knockout an isolated sebilian/caesan. This way, I get to rush advanced medpacks really early. Its pretty funny when the xenopedia entry shows alien holding tanks in the lab, but they're not supposed to have them until you research stun weapons.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Reactorcore

[Man of Doge]

(...)

Btw, I also wanted to mention that I really love doing this every playthrough:

On the first UFO ground combat mission, I use about 20 flashbangs to stun and knockout an isolated sebilian/caesan. This way, I get to rush advanced medpacks really early. Its pretty funny when the xenopedia entry shows alien holding tanks in the lab, but they're not supposed to have them until you research stun weapons.

I'm starting to see why Chris views the soldiers as cannon fodder...

20 Flashbangs on a Sebillian, I thought they regenerated from stun damage?

[Reactorcore]

I'm starting to see why Chris views the soldiers as cannon fodder...

20 Flashbangs on a Sebillian, I thought they regenerated from stun damage?

Doesn't seem like so. They only regenerate red hitpoints.

[Man of Doge]

Doesn't seem like so. They only regenerate red hitpoints.

Hm... Somehow I feel as if that's a bug, especially since Dr.Snidely is surprised you could even capture one...

[Man of Doge]

@Drages:

Does the Quad Launcher have it's "pelletCount" set?

[NuclearStudent]

I found the perfect sound for a heavy explosion about to explode. Leaving it here for future reference.

http://soundbible.com/1766-Fire-Pager.html

[blackwolf]

actually i liked that "urban city" sound..because i readed that in xce 0.32 there will be added a new "sound code rule" giving you the oportunity to add a specific track to a specific kind of map (imagine that with the sound of warning sirens and maybe shooots and explosion in the distance)..that would add a LOT of personality to every map:

*adding crickets and animal sounds to farm maps would make you feel more "paranoic" because everything feels really peacefull and you feel alone..but you know YOU ARE NOT ALONE.

*adding (dont know the word) wind howling like in the blizzards to artic maps..gives you the same loneliness perception like in farm maps.

*and of course adding those combat and alerts to urban maps would make you feel you are in a really big combat..a great chaos and havoc around you and you are not the only one fighting (there should be a regular army from that country fighting somewhere else in the city)...the sirens, screams and crying would make the combat feels more "important"..that you are fighting right here in your home, trying to save mankind..you know what im saying?.

[drages]

I will look it up. I want to go for sound after all materials added.

[Squaddie Perseus]

Hey, long time lurker on the forums and shorter time player (only been playing since Early Access), and I love Vanilla Xenonauts and I LOVE this mod as it adds so much more to an already amazing game and amazing adaption of old style X-COM (and I say that as someone who came to X-COM thanks to Firaxis' remake). That being said, and seeing as this is the discussion thread, I've been thinking about the tech tree. Things are very convoluted and they just don't match up. I've currently started to unlock weapons at very strange intervals. For example, I just unlocked newer bio weapons and few new laser weapons...a couple months after I unlocked MAG weapons, and yet I haven't even unlocked the Gauss weapon tech tree (which seems to be a prerequisite). I've been using Nuclear Student's tech tree organizer, and I'm on the right path to unlocking the tier that's between "advanced" and "ultimate", but I unlocked the basic MAG weapons first. Yet, according to the tech tree organizer, I need to research the "alien fusion reactor" (and that's just an example, I'm fairly certain I don't have other techs researched that should enable me to make these weapons) to be able to research basic MAG weaponry. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the tech tree, as it stands, is very large, very confusing, and in some cases seems to have a few bugs about. Now, Student's organizer is good and all, but I think in the long run we may want to consider two things: 1) Help Drages tighten up the tech tree and add the needed entries and fix any research bugs and 2) I realize this idea may be asking a lot but it may be a good idea if somebody were to make a flow chart for this mod's tech tree. It may make understanding the tech tree and what exactly is needed for what a bit easier (case in point, the MAG weapons, I don't think I have even HALF the research needed for them done and yet I could have my engineers start cranking them out so long as I have the resources, only reason I haven't is because I'm a bit tight on loot as it is and with enriched alien alloys being a thing, I don't want to potentially waste what I have).

I realize I'm a newbie to the forums and everything, but I've been playing around with this mod the past few days and I love what I see, but the tech tree is so darn complex that I've actually given up trying to guess what research leads to what (which is part of the fun for me). Further, like I said, there seem to be bugs in the tech tree itself. I'm currently looking at what I'm supposed to need for plasma weapons. I could swear I had captured some Neutron weapons in the past, but I may be confusing them with another alien weapon type. Maybe I haven't captured any, maybe I have and the game just didn't recognize it. I'm not sure which, but maybe we should help Drages sort out the tech tree before any more major techs are added.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Squaddie Perseus

[XenonaughtFox]

Now I've gotten this mod and got all the fixes and played on it for a bit... now I'm going to tell you what didn't and did work.

Didn't:

Requiring to build new launchers for alienium missiles... yeah not your best idea as it makes it far too logistics-heavy and the alienium (and later plasma) warheads are made to enhance your aircraft capabilities when researched. This forces you to micromanage the shit out your production and aircraft.

Requiring you to build new cannons... yeah. That isn't a good idea either. Not only it increases micromanagement, it also makes defending the planet a pain in the ass much like the new launchers idea. Even on easy without auto-upgrading cannons and missiles, you are going to get your ass pounded.

Likes:

Requiring equipment to build aircraft... is an actually neat idea. However if you keep the building launchers idea, then it becomes near-impossible to upgrade the airforce as on easy I've found that launchers are hard to come by and thus makes it impossible to upgrade my weapons and my airforce without sustaining an insane turn-over of troops.

'Torpedo Boats'... not that I've tried them yet but that's a neat idea.

Splitting weapons into 'basic', 'advanced' and what not are inspired.

'AP' weapons... are a good idea. I've not seen the idea in action before... and it works.

Now suggestions:

Get rid of the cannon and missile manufacture idea entirely. Not only it hurts those from XNT (yeah, I used to play that mod quite often when I have Xenonauts on my comp), but new people that would find the mod. Keep the aircraft requiring the mounts however.

Refine the AP weapons idea. They're working quite well. Also the ranged stun firearms should be a wee bit enhanced.

[drages]

Hey, long time lurker on the forums and shorter time player (only been playing since Early Access), and I love Vanilla Xenonauts and I LOVE this mod as it adds so much more to an already amazing game and amazing adaption of old style X-COM (and I say that as someone who came to X-COM thanks to Firaxis' remake). That being said, and seeing as this is the discussion thread, I've been thinking about the tech tree. Things are very convoluted and they just don't match up. I've currently started to unlock weapons at very strange intervals. For example, I just unlocked newer bio weapons and few new laser weapons...a couple months after I unlocked MAG weapons, and yet I haven't even unlocked the Gauss weapon tech tree (which seems to be a prerequisite). I've been using Nuclear Student's tech tree organizer, and I'm on the right path to unlocking the tier that's between "advanced" and "ultimate", but I unlocked the basic MAG weapons first. Yet, according to the tech tree organizer, I need to research the "alien fusion reactor" (and that's just an example, I'm fairly certain I don't have other techs researched that should enable me to make these weapons) to be able to research basic MAG weaponry. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the tech tree, as it stands, is very large, very confusing, and in some cases seems to have a few bugs about. Now, Student's organizer is good and all, but I think in the long run we may want to consider two things: 1) Help Drages tighten up the tech tree and add the needed entries and fix any research bugs and 2) I realize this idea may be asking a lot but it may be a good idea if somebody were to make a flow chart for this mod's tech tree. It may make understanding the tech tree and what exactly is needed for what a bit easier (case in point, the MAG weapons, I don't think I have even HALF the research needed for them done and yet I could have my engineers start cranking them out so long as I have the resources, only reason I haven't is because I'm a bit tight on loot as it is and with enriched alien alloys being a thing, I don't want to potentially waste what I have).

I realize I'm a newbie to the forums and everything, but I've been playing around with this mod the past few days and I love what I see, but the tech tree is so darn complex that I've actually given up trying to guess what research leads to what (which is part of the fun for me). Further, like I said, there seem to be bugs in the tech tree itself. I'm currently looking at what I'm supposed to need for plasma weapons. I could swear I had captured some Neutron weapons in the past, but I may be confusing them with another alien weapon type. Maybe I haven't captured any, maybe I have and the game just didn't recognize it. I'm not sure which, but maybe we should help Drages sort out the tech tree before any more major techs are added.

Squaddie Perseus Welcome to forum! and thx for critics..

When u try add about 3x more content to a game, there could be some problems, big problems.. With 0.98 there will be very big overhaul. All research tree will be different with new req. I want a tech non-linear tech tree with only research-next then next then next policy, and i dont want u miss anything without your notice with a missed alien weapon..

So for now u need alien weapons to get further in research.. with the ufo crew u got with 0.97, its very random.. u can have a late tech weapon drop, but you wot able to use it because u dont have the weapon for prerequest.. Now new researchs will come with mostly stunned aliens u will capture so even you miss a weapon drop, u will get the research..

As i always say, 0.98 will be like a new mod with all the rebalances and changes..

Now I've gotten this mod and got all the fixes and played on it for a bit... now I'm going to tell you what didn't and did work.

Didn't:

Requiring to build new launchers for alienium missiles... yeah not your best idea as it makes it far too logistics-heavy and the alienium (and later plasma) warheads are made to enhance your aircraft capabilities when researched. This forces you to micromanage the shit out your production and aircraft.

Requiring you to build new cannons... yeah. That isn't a good idea either. Not only it increases micromanagement, it also makes defending the planet a pain in the ass much like the new launchers idea. Even on easy without auto-upgrading cannons and missiles, you are going to get your ass pounded.

Likes:

Requiring equipment to build aircraft... is an actually neat idea. However if you keep the building launchers idea, then it becomes near-impossible to upgrade the airforce as on easy I've found that launchers are hard to come by and thus makes it impossible to upgrade my weapons and my airforce without sustaining an insane turn-over of troops.

'Torpedo Boats'... not that I've tried them yet but that's a neat idea.

Splitting weapons into 'basic', 'advanced' and what not are inspired.

'AP' weapons... are a good idea. I've not seen the idea in action before... and it works.

Now suggestions:

Get rid of the cannon and missile manufacture idea entirely. Not only it hurts those from XNT (yeah, I used to play that mod quite often when I have Xenonauts on my comp), but new people that would find the mod. Keep the aircraft requiring the mounts however.

Refine the AP weapons idea. They're working quite well. Also the ranged stun firearms should be a wee bit enhanced.

Hey fox!

First of all micromanage is one of the reasons of this mod.. Of course i dont mean just micromanage everything! if so i would make u manufacture all basic weapons and all ammos and all explosive grenades and rockets..

About launchers needs torpedo drops when you already use it at the plane itself idea, you are right.. but i am against to getting rid of airplane weapons production entirely. When there is a direct replacement of an item, you dont feel it.. "Ohh i researched it and then my 20 plane got it suddenly".. u stop to check what your planes are using.. you dont anything to collect to have them.. at original X-Com, when u got first plasma beam using aircraft, u became happy when u put in to plane.. u smile and your whole day will be good... So i am ok with all balancing about the req of a weapon but not manufacturing is not good idea for me.. The vehicle weapons are free and i am not ok with that even..