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Susan_Brindle

Tanks love friendly fire

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I admit, this post is being made largely in frustration, but I feel it's a valid frustration. See, if a troop stands in front of a chest-high wall, or a kneeling comrade, he can shoot over that comrade with no difficulty. Or, if they're not directly adjacent, the game is polite enough to inform me that there's an obstacle, and the percent chance that he'll hit his friend/wall.

Tanks apparently not only lack the ability to shoot over things much shorter than them, but also the game feels no obligation to warn you. So now my laser-cannon tank is at 1/3rd HP and three of my top soldiers are goo, all because I assumed that I positioned the tank so that the barrel was literally extending over their heads, the shot fired would ALSO go over their heads.

:mad:

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That's one reason I never play games with enforced ironman mode turned on anymore. If I run into something I consider a bug or a flaw in the game I'll reload (and all games have some pretty bad flaws mixed in with the good). That tank thing sounds like an oversight to me since the devs did make the intentional decision to permit troopers to fire over each others' shoulders.

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Hehe, also noob soldiers love to blow themselves up with grenades or rockets sometimes. Probably getting a grenade over a not-so-tall wall wasn't part of basic training...;)

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Turn-based games has the ridiculous audacity to let you miss point blank 95% shots. It's no surprise when friendly fire is involved.

Especially when Reapers are involved. Or Chryssalids from X-COM or Enemy Unknown

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Yeah, I wonder if there's a bug in the vehicle accuracy calculation. If the shot is calculated from the centre of the tank, I guess the cover wouldn't be in an adjacent square (for the purposes of the calculation at least).

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For heavy guns such as tanks and Rocket Launchers there should be different calculation for covers. I had example when my rocketeer stood behind 2 dumpsters in a row. Firing in straight line, he hit the second dumpster. High explosives have to travel minimum safe distance before arming. For such high caliber guns covers in bigger radius should be discarded. Maybe the radius of the explosion where center is the shooter. That would definitely took care of hitting your own feet.

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I admit, this post is being made largely in frustration, but I feel it's a valid frustration.

Of course it's a valid frustration. X-Com-like games are supposed to occassionally make players frustrated when bad luck strikes. Which is what most likely happened. I've just fired 12 rounds from both Hunter and Scimitar over soldiers kneeling right in front of them, and not a single scratch.

Tanks apparently not only lack the ability to shoot over things much shorter than them,

No, they don't. At least not compared to soldiers.

but also the game feels no obligation to warn you.

Unless you are talking about "warning: bad luck may happen" that'd tell you a shot may stray in the heat of the battle(*), the game shows all that's needed.

(*) Funnily enough, some players actually do find it a problem that the game doesn't warn about that. Go figure.

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Unless you are talking about "warning: bad luck may happen" that'd tell you a shot may stray in the heat of the battle

--The following is completely wrong and should be ignored, maintained as proof I'm an idiot --

I think the primary problem is the inconstancy though. If I have a soldier aim his gun at an alien the game will not only tell me that his buddy is in the way but the percentage change of shooting said buddy in the back. Even soldiers carrying rocket launchers are given that kind of information. However when we move up to tank level weaponry that information disappears. So either knowing that information for soldiers is a bug and should be removed in the CE (something I think no one wants) or tanks not knowing that information is the bug and should be fixed in the CE. After all it would be nice if the tanks gunner could warn me that hes only got a 20% chance to get a shell over the wall right in front of him.

Edited by Zerodaimaru
I'm a gibbon

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It is if the thing blocking the shot is far enough away. I was referring to the situation where you have your soldiers or a wall right in front of the tank, then it doesn't seem to Or at least I cant remember ever seeing it, but to be fair after the first misfire mishap I keep my tanks far away from my soldiers and non concealing cover so perhaps its not that their missing all the time and are only absent in specific circumstances. I admit I haven't put much more research into then the one time and deciding "NOPE" from then on out

Edit: Sorry for the confusion, apparently I'm not quite coherent enough on a single cup of coffee to be able to express my point properly :)

Edited by Zerodaimaru

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I think the primary problem is the inconstancy though. If I have a soldier aim his gun at an alien the game will not only tell me that his buddy is in the way but the percentage change of shooting said buddy in the back. Even soldiers carrying rocket launchers are given that kind of information. However when we move up to tank level weaponry that information disappears.

[citation needed]

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Okay just went and had a look in game (no mods or anything installed, just using the base non CE version available on steam) And ya I'm not sure where I got that soldiers wouldn't cause the blocked shot to appear cause they do so sorry for that! chest high walls don't but the shots I took over it didn't seem to block it either, though admittedly leaving your tanks next to chest high walls is a pretty good way to lose them on insane anyway :) Sorry the misinformation! I'm gonna go slink off to a corner for a little while now

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I just finished my Insane Ironman game, well by finished I mean I lost at the last mission.

Mainly in the fact that my Tank decided to hit the wall next to it and wipe out 1/3rd of my squad. Then the infinite battle rifles that negate armour but that's beside the point.

Explosive weapons, and Support Tanks, are great. But are very situational and great care needs to be used when using them. In my experience the vast majority of friendly fire issues I've had come from explosive weapons and tanks.

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Tanks should not be able to misfire shots. Even in the 80's, where the game is placed, they had electronic fire assistance. For example the Russian ZSU-23/4 anti air vehicle could track and hit any airplane in it's range, no matter it's speed. Battle Tanks do hit where the target is, regardless of it's own movement speed and terrain. Should be taken into consideration.

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You know, I thought the idea of such foul-ups was based on the old X-COM, which I also thought that the game was meta-planned 'that way' to retain the spirit of the X-COM feel. :P

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Tanks should not be able to misfire shots. Even in the 80's, where the game is placed, they had electronic fire assistance. For example the Russian ZSU-23/4 anti air vehicle could track and hit any airplane in it's range, no matter it's speed. Battle Tanks do hit where the target is, regardless of it's own movement speed and terrain. Should be taken into consideration.

It should be taken into consideration then discarded. Realism doesn't always equal good gameplay and I am not even convinced about the realism part.

If tanks can hit any human sized target regardless of cover or range they are instant kills on most enemies unless you make their damage pitiful, there is no risk only reward.

Surely the advanced alien vehicles have similar abilities? Would you enjoy your soldiers getting insta-gibbed by enemy vehicles?

What about the computer controlled Androns? Surely they should also share these advanced fire control systems and rarely/never miss?

Some of the aliens have helmets with advanced targeting systems so they should also have little chance of missing your soldiers.

Even the advanced human armours can have assisted targeting as they have advanced computer systems.

Tracking and hitting an aircraft in the open using radar is relatively easy compared to hitting a human sized target dodging around between cover I would think. It certainly makes for a more balanced game.

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Tanks in game should not be 100% accurate, but they should however have improved accuracy in short ranges so they can't blow themselves up. We can't throw "Realism" completely, but we also can't always fend any logic off with "IT'S A GAME"

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Tanks in game should not be 100% accurate, but they should however have improved accuracy in short ranges so they can't blow themselves up. We can't throw "Realism" completely, but we also can't always fend any logic off with "IT'S A GAME"

If doing so means better gameplay, sure you can. Not that this is such a case.

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Anything below 100% accuracy leaves you with a chance of missing and damaging the vehicle. That would only be the case if the chance of hitting any prop in the line of fire is also ignored so your highly accurate shot isn't stopped by trying to fire through a keyhole across the street.

You should be able to mod this yourself quite easily to try it though. Reduce tank weapons from 20 range to 10 and boost tank accuracy from 60 to 70 and work on balance from there. You might lose suppression but should gain more accuracy up close.

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Sometimes I think friendly fire accidents come down to poor communication on certain objects blocking your shot. An example is your tank/soldier is behind a crate that has another small crate in front of it. So even though the first crate will be shot over, the second crate may well have a 45% of blocking the shot.

There are also some circumstances where a wall unintentionally blocks a shot at close range with no warning it would do that. The biggest offender is the Charlie Dropship.

In my earlier post about my Hyperion Tank killing a good portion my squad, I had positioned my tank near a wall. The tank was 1/3 behind the wall, the far right side of the tank was behind the wall, yet when I fired, expecting the shot to fire from the middle of the tank, it instead hit the wall to its right.

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