What controls the 'length' of game time?

[endersblade]

I don't know how to properly ask this question. Basically, I'm rather annoyed at how much tech I kinda skip over, because new stuff comes flooding in. I've played three full games so far, and not once have I bothered making laser weapons. By the time I have the research and materials to equip 2-3 squads with lasers and jackal armor, I'm already in the process of researching plasma and wolf armor.

I mostly play on normal difficulty, btw. But I want longer games. I want to be able to make laser weapons, and have them be useful for at LEAST a month or two before outmoding them. In other words, I just want much, much longer games. I play the new (firaxis) XCOM on marathon mode. I'm not looking to beat the game in a hurry, I'm looking for a long, drawn-out campaign against the alien scum.

[Max_Caine]

Hrm. Easy enough to sort out. The game operates on a ticker. There are several alien mission types. The ticker counts up, and the game checks each alien mission type to see whether the ticker has gotten a high enough number to unlock a new UFO type.

As an example, from AM_GroundAttack.xml, which is the second most common type of UFO mission:

<Row ss:AutoFitHeight="0">

<Cell ss:StyleID="s65"><Data ss:Type="String">m:airplane.alien.battleship</Data></Cell>

<Cell ss:StyleID="s64"><Data ss:Type="Number">800</Data></Cell>

<Cell><Data ss:Type="Number">100</Data></Cell>

</Row>

That 800 I've bolded out is the ticker unlock for battleships performing Ground Attack missions. At ticker score 800, batleships can start to appear. Note that they don't necessarily switch over rght at the 800 mark, just that they start appearing after the 800 mark. Try playing about with the ticker scores to see what works for you.

[endersblade]

And, from what I read in another thread, 100 ticks = 1 month, correct? If that's true, I shouldn't have an issue extending my game. Much thanks! Just looks like a lot of file editing lol.

[Max_Caine]

I'm afraid I don't remember off-hand. What I do remember is the most common mission types are: AM_GroundAttack, AM_Research, AM_AirSuperiority and AM_Scout. Each ufo type in each mission type is has its own entry, so you can Have It Your Way.

(Incidently, the reason things are so relatively quick is that a lot of people have complained in the past things were too slow! I think you're the first to ask for things to be longer!)

[endersblade]

I can understand that in a way. However, if that's true, why is it so freaking hard to get alenium and alloys? Cripes, you have to shoot down about a hundred UFOs just to make a decent sized fleet of ships!

Yeah well, I don't have ADD and I see no point in 'beating' the game :-P I want a game to last as long as possible, and I want each 'era' to last long enough to enjoy the gear, get used to the UFOs, and swap out my planes.

That was another complaint I had. In my most recent game, I had 6 bases. Trying to get a full fleet of 2 Corsairs and 1 Foxtrot per base, I got 3 bases done and then suddenly I had Marauders to build. So I basically felt like I wasted the resources for nothing. This isn't counting making weapons and armor for troops! People want games to be faster, but resources are so scarce it makes it seem like the game is SUPPOSED to be drawn out.

That was my biggest issue (in case you saw my posts in other threads) with the game being considered 'done'. The pacing is just completely out of whack. Research outpaces resources and gearing by a long shot. If the game is meant to be quicker, then resources should be a LOT more common. If the game is supposed to be long, research topics need to be spaced out by quite a bit. As it is, it just doesn't play smoothly.

I don't know how to edit the amounts of resources you get per ship, so I'm going the other route and going to try and extend the game instead. Hopefully I'll find a tweak to my liking.

Thanks again for your help, by the way.

[skaianDestiny]

Woah SIX bases?! And you're making more Corsairs than Foxtrots? No wonder you're losing cash.

You'll NEVER need more than 3 bases. And Foxtrots will ALWAYS be your bread and butter until you get Marauders. Condors/Corsairs are for fighting the smaller UFOs such as fighters.

Edited August 24, 2014 by skaianDestiny

[Max_Caine]

There have been endless disputes regarding the pacing of Xenonauts. If you check reviews the mid-game is described as overly drawn out, so I'm not going anywhere near discussion of pacing, because the pacing (I play Veteran and Insane) is okay for me. The only thing I'll say which you're probably unaware of is that resources are a lot more common provided you attack landed UFOs. The yield per UFO for a landed UFO is significantly higher than a shot down UFO. I (sort of) shadow UFOs and jump them specifically for their goodies.

[steave]

Yeah, your problem isn't too little resources or time, it's getting way too much stuff. 3 bases placed in central america, indochina and middle east/north africa is plenty to cover all you need, and 1 or at most 2 squads is more than enough to handle the ground missions.

I never run out of resources until I've been building marauders for quite a while.

[Steelpoint]

From personal experience, a downed Light Scout yields about 2 or 3 Alien Alloys, a landed Light Scout gives about 10 Alien Alloys. Should give you an idea on the benefits of attacking a landed UFO.

Balance wise, I found myself using Laser weapons for quite a while, usually a month or longer. I find Plasma weapons had the shortest duration of usage before I reached MAG weapons.

As everyone is noting, six bases with three interceptors apiece is a very hefty expense.

[endersblade]

I never run out of resources until I've been building marauders for quite a while.

Once I get to the point where I can make marauders, I usually have a decent amount built up, and have enough trickling in to support making them. It's getting to that point where I find I'm just severely lacking. As a matter of fact, I usually have a decent amount of Alenium by then, just kinda short on alloys.

I'm not worried about money.

I try to shadow UFOs until they land as well. I probably get 1-2 landings out of every 7-8 that appear, which isn't too bad. I also do ground combat at every chance I get, I never do the airstrike thing.

As for 6 bases, only 4 of them have squads. Of the two, one is purely for research and the other for manufacturing. Same setup I used to do in X-COM. At each base, I try to made a squadron of two corsairs and one foxtrot, as foxtrots seem to be stupidly squishy to me. They fire off their two missiles, and then they're just sitting ducks.

I don't ever really have a problem with money. I only keep what I absolutely need atm (as in, I don't immediately build every single building I can per base), I only keep squads of 8 soldiers per base and order more if they die; in other words, I cut corners and penny pinch where I can. But I've also modded the game to start with more money than vanilla (10 mil), so again, money isn't an issue.

I just got into another game where lasers were overshadowed by plasma before I could even craft enough for just two squads. I must be doing something seriously wrong, because resources are just too scarce for the way I play.

The only research I really have no complaints about are the dropships. I make Shrikes and use them for quite a while before Valks are even a thing.

[GerbilSchooler]

Don't mod in 10 million dollars starting cash and maybe the game might seem a bit more "drawn out" ? I mean. You're commenting on the pacing of the game when you have given yourself a years worth of funding at the beginning...

[skaianDestiny]

As for 6 bases, only 4 of them have squads. Of the two, one is purely for research and the other for manufacturing. Same setup I used to do in X-COM. At each base, I try to made a squadron of two corsairs and one foxtrot, as foxtrots seem to be stupidly squishy to me. They fire off their two missiles, and then they're just sitting ducks.

You do know you can let your Foxtrots fire off the torpedoes, then make them retreat to rearm? It's my standard strategy and it's never failed me. Also, as long as you keep explosives research up to date, all you need is 2 Foxtrots to take down a UFO.

I don't ever really have a problem with money. I only keep what I absolutely need atm (as in, I don't immediately build every single building I can per base), I only keep squads of 8 soldiers per base and order more if they die; in other words, I cut corners and penny pinch where I can. But I've also modded the game to start with more money than vanilla (10 mil), so again, money isn't an issue.

...

But I've also modded the game to start with more money than vanilla (10 mil), so again, money isn't an issue.

......

more money than vanilla (10 mil)

.........

(10 mil)

............

Well there's your problem. Please don't complain about the game's balance when you make it ridiculously easy. I don't have anything against you modding this, but having the gall to complain about how "the game drags on" when you make it so that a key mechanic of the game (managing your resources, which includes money and funding) is a non-issue kind of stupid?

If you've played through vanilla and found it to drag I'd be perfectly fine with that, but giving yourself such a monumental advantage that invalidates an important part of the game and then complaining about pacing is what I object to.

What difficulty are you playing anyway? Impossible/Ironman? That I can understand 10 million starting funds.

[steave]

I just got into another game where lasers were overshadowed by plasma before I could even craft enough for just two squads. I must be doing something seriously wrong, because resources are just too scarce for the way I play.

Well, yeah, of course resources are gonna be scarce when you're trying to arm 2-4 times more men than you normally would...

"Just 2 squads" is normally considered too many in a normal game.

Other than that, I agree with the above 2 posters...

[GerbilSchooler]

I mean, I understand where you're coming from, OP. It feels awesome to have a whole bunch of troops and a bunch of bases at your disposal, but in the vanilla game. It is only practical to, probably at most, have three squads for maybe a total of 30-40 soldiers. And that's being liberal. I am sure more is possible but definitely not until late game when you've maxed out all countries and are bringing in 150,000 to 200,000 per ground mission

Edit: Each squad you have should, in theory, be able to pay for itself in time, but there is a limit to that based on how many UFO's there are

[crusherven]

Ultimately you're just trying to equip more troops and build more aircraft than the game is going to supply.

[GerbilSchooler]

I'd recommend modding in more UFO's or some such to put that many squads to decent use and be able to support them.

Edit: My B-squad were taking on Dropships with ballistics and jackal armor (Well, one point man had a laser carbine and wolf armour, but that was it) And I have only just now outfitted everybody with at least a laser (some plasma) and wolf/buzzard armour. And this is only 25 troops or so, I think

Edited August 26, 2014 by GerbilSchooler

[endersblade]

So what all of you are saying is, "The game allows you to make many bases, house many troops, but you're retarded for thinking it's OK to do so." Really?

Did I increase my starting money? Sure. Do you understand how quickly that 10 mil disappears though? You guys act like I'm giving myself unlimited funds lol. Not even close.

This is a game about defending the WORLD. Not one state, not one country, not even one continent. THE WORLD. I would expect everything humanly possible being thrown at this. Bases spread out around the world for maximum coverage. All the top technology at your soldier's fingertips. And indeed, having more than just 1-2 squads of people defending, again, THE WHOLE WORLD. This was the problem I had with XCOM: EU/EW; if you want to play a game with one squad, go play that one. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Regardless of all of this, it has absolutely nothing to do with my main post. Even moreso, you are SUPPORTING my first post. You don't get enough supplies to really build anything, even for just one base/one squad, before the next becomes available. I played the vanilla version, only expanding to a new base whenever I knew I had the funding to cover it, only having 1-2 squads, maybe 6-9 planes, and I STILL outpaced gearing up with research.

This game allows you to make multiple bases, have multiple squads, I should NOT be limited to "just 1-2" because you think it's optimal or something. Again, maybe I get too role-playing-ish into this game when I'm thinking about how to properly defend an entire planet from aliens, but using 8-10 people and a handful of planes just doesn't cut it for me.

I think the main issue here is that I DON'T have ADD, I WANT longer games. I really see no point in playing these types of games if all you're interested in is beating it. You get nothing out of beating it.

Btw, I'm not trying to sound angry here. I just don't understand where you guys are coming from, wanting short games, few troops, and few bases.

Edit: Just wanted to say, I don't increase my squad sizes beyond 8.

Edited August 29, 2014 by endersblade

[steave]

So what all of you are saying is, "The game allows you to make many bases, house many troops, but you're retarded for thinking it's OK to do so." Really?

It allows you to do anything you want, but gives you a budget, both in regards to resources and funding. Those 2 things are supposed to keep your expansion in check.

Did I increase my starting money? Sure. Do you understand how quickly that 10 mil disappears though? You guys act like I'm giving myself unlimited funds lol. Not even close.

Nowhere nearly as quickly as it's supposed to.

This is a game about defending the WORLD. Not one state, not one country, not even one continent. THE WORLD. I would expect everything humanly possible being thrown at this. Bases spread out around the world for maximum coverage. All the top technology at your soldier's fingertips. And indeed, having more than just 1-2 squads of people defending, again, THE WHOLE WORLD. This was the problem I had with XCOM: EU/EW; if you want to play a game with one squad, go play that one. Doesn't make any sense to me.

And the normal 3 base setup covers about 90% of the earths landmass. The rest still gets protection since the UFOs move around and will most likely come into your radar range anyway.

You're supposed to TRY to defend the world - it's not supposed to be easy, and you're not necessarily supposed to succeed in covering everything instantly.

Regardless of all of this, it has absolutely nothing to do with my main post. Even moreso, you are SUPPORTING my first post. You don't get enough supplies to really build anything, even for just one base/one squad, before the next becomes available. I played the vanilla version, only expanding to a new base whenever I knew I had the funding to cover it, only having 1-2 squads, maybe 6-9 planes, and I STILL outpaced gearing up with research.

Sure you do. If you don't, you're doing something wrong, either investing in too many scientists where the resources could be better spent elsewhere, such as fixing the second possible mistake: investing too little in engineering, or you haven't built up enough radar coverage/air force to down enough UFOs for the resources. I've literally never been short on alenium ever, and only short on alloys after my bases are almost fully equipped with marauders, and I get my squad fully equipped before the next tier comes around. I focus on air superiority though, the very first thing I do is build a second base.

This game allows you to make multiple bases, have multiple squads, I should NOT be limited to "just 1-2" because you think it's optimal or something. Again, maybe I get too role-playing-ish into this game when I'm thinking about how to properly defend an entire planet from aliens, but using 8-10 people and a handful of planes just doesn't cut it for me.

You can play it any way you want. You can either go for 3 bases and 1-2 squads and make them top notch, which is optimal, or you can go for tons of bases and squads, but then you won't be able to equip them very well. Alternatively, you can scale back on expanding your coverage and invest more in research and basically skip some tiers like you were doing in your normal game.

You can play it any way you want, but the different approaches has different drawbacks - you're not supposed to be able to get it all.

I think the main issue here is that I DON'T have ADD, I WANT longer games. I really see no point in playing these types of games if all you're interested in is beating it. You get nothing out of beating it.

Btw, I'm not trying to sound angry here. I just don't understand where you guys are coming from, wanting short games, few troops, and few bases.

Edit: Just wanted to say, I don't increase my squad sizes beyond 8.

You're the one looking for ways to make the game shorter. You want tons of starting cash and much more resources so you can fully equip a force covering the entire globe right of the bat. Those limits are there in order to prevent that. If you want a full coverage with top notch troops, you can achieve that in the very late game when you start having more cash than you know what to do with.

Nice ad hominem there btw, implying anyone who disagrees with you is handicapped. You're doing a great job of not sounding angry!

[crusherven]

So what all of you are saying is, "The game allows you to make many bases, house many troops, but you're retarded for thinking it's OK to do so." Really?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea. In Civilization you can build cities almost anywhere you want, but there's still plenty of dumb ways to go about building cities. In Age of Empires you could build your houses in neat little rows a divide your workers up into men and women for different jobs, but if you spent the time doing that and expected to do well on harder difficulties you'd be pretty dumb.

Did I increase my starting money? Sure. Do you understand how quickly that 10 mil disappears though? You guys act like I'm giving myself unlimited funds lol. Not even close.

No, but you did give yourself a 3-4 month headstart in funding, then turn around and complain that things go too quickly.

This is a game about defending the WORLD. Not one state, not one country, not even one continent. THE WORLD. I would expect everything humanly possible being thrown at this. Bases spread out around the world for maximum coverage. All the top technology at your soldier's fingertips. And indeed, having more than just 1-2 squads of people defending, again, THE WHOLE WORLD. This was the problem I had with XCOM: EU/EW; if you want to play a game with one squad, go play that one. Doesn't make any sense to me.

Why would a bitterly divided world give a new and largely unproven organization all their best resources? And what happens after the alien threat is defeated? What if one of the major powers coopts Xenonauts and uses their troops and equipment to attack other nations? Or what if I'm Germany and sent all my best troops and money and equipment to Xenonauts, only to get swallowed up by the USSR. Tell me it wouldn't happen, and I'll tell you that you don't know world history.

Regardless of all of this, it has absolutely nothing to do with my main post. Even moreso, you are SUPPORTING my first post. You don't get enough supplies to really build anything, even for just one base/one squad, before the next becomes available. I played the vanilla version, only expanding to a new base whenever I knew I had the funding to cover it, only having 1-2 squads, maybe 6-9 planes, and I STILL outpaced gearing up with research.

Eh, I never supported your post or attacked it. I just pointed out how things are. You're trying to use more resources than the game makes available. And then you're also playing on a relatively easy difficulty and probably hiring a lot more scientists than you'd be able to afford without $10 million floating around. I'd guess most players are stuck with 15-30 for most of the game because they can't afford more--that makes a huge difference in how fast tech trees go by.

This game allows you to make multiple bases, have multiple squads, I should NOT be limited to "just 1-2" because you think it's optimal or something. Again, maybe I get too role-playing-ish into this game when I'm thinking about how to properly defend an entire planet from aliens, but using 8-10 people and a handful of planes just doesn't cut it for me.

You're not limited, but it's also not optimal. It has nothing to do with my opinion or anyone else's, it's just simple math--extra ground teams take a very long time to pay for themselves (if ever). Of course, you already modded the game once to give yourself far more resources, so I'm not sure why you're complaining--either increase the number of UFOs that come or increase the resources you get from them. You can absolutely play the game however you want, but don't be shocked when the game punishes you for playing in a way it was never designed to support.

The bottom line is that if you want to play the game the way you're describing, you're going to have to mod the game--increase research/manufacturing times because you've given yourself the money to speed those processes up (shortening the game) and increase the number of UFOs/resources you get per wave, or if possible the wave frequency.

[Zerodaimaru]

Sorry OP but your making a rather large mistake. Your coming at this game thinking "This is what I think the game should be, now lets force it into my preconceived mold" and finding an unsatisfactory experience. When you should be coming at it with a mind set of "These are the games mechanics, how can I make them work for me?". As others have said the pacing was never designed around having 3 - 4 months of funding from the start, or having more then 1 or 2 squads armed and ready to go.

But here's the awesome part, with enough work you could potentially turn Xenonauts into what you want it to be. Your going to have to get down in the guts of the game and alter .. well basically everything but that's not all that hard to do. And when you get it the way you want it then you can bring it back to the community and say "Hey, this is how I always thought this game should be" and allow others to enjoy your vision of xenonauts. It doesn't sound like my cup of tea personally but I'm sure there's at least a few people who would like to play a game where you have to field 5 or 6 squads of soldiers across 8 bases with a long slog through the tech tree. I mean heck look at the long war mod for XCom:EW and that's essentially what they've done and people love it.

[LtcWalker]

Before anybody reads this I would advise to keep in mind that:

1. This reply isn't critique, but about sharing my opinion in the hope that it helps to make the game more fun for endersblade

2. English isn't my mother language (but please correct me where possible)

3. I have been awake for way too long, so I'm having a hard time concentrating on the english language

So what all of you are saying is, "The game allows you to make many bases, house many troops, but you're retarded for thinking it's OK to do so." Really?

Well as many people already said: not everything you can do is always a good idea.

Did I increase my starting money? Sure. Do you understand how quickly that 10 mil disappears though? You guys act like I'm giving myself unlimited funds lol. Not even close.

I guess what most people are going on about here is that increasing your starting money can really throw almost everything out of balance, especially the money to alien resource ratio.

This is a game about defending the WORLD. Not one state, not one country, not even one continent. THE WORLD. I would expect everything humanly possible being thrown at this. Bases spread out around the world for maximum coverage. All the top technology at your soldier's fingertips. And indeed, having more than just 1-2 squads of people defending, again, THE WHOLE WORLD. This was the problem I had with XCOM: EU/EW; if you want to play a game with one squad, go play that one. Doesn't make any sense to me.

As far as I know, nowhere in the game and/or around it it's stated that the scenario is 100% realistic.(Please correct me if I'm wrong)

But even counting that in it is understandable that every nations would still invest most of their funds into their own military.

Regardless of all of this, it has absolutely nothing to do with my main post. Even moreso, you are SUPPORTING my first post. You don't get enough supplies to really build anything, even for just one base/one squad, before the next becomes available. I played the vanilla version, only expanding to a new base whenever I knew I had the funding to cover it, only having 1-2 squads, maybe 6-9 planes, and I STILL outpaced gearing up with research.

The fact that a new plane has been developed doesnt mean its worth the resources. Same goes for weapons. The game isn't about simulating the best way to defend our home planet from aliens, it is about putting the player into a situation where he has to make the right choices with what he has got to defend the earth. I guess the best examples are in my opinion the laser weapons, wolf armor and the corsair. I find my self skipping atleast one of those tech's in every run i have.(I will go into detail about this further below)

This game allows you to make multiple bases, have multiple squads, I should NOT be limited to "just 1-2" because you think it's optimal or something. Again, maybe I get too role-playing-ish into this game when I'm thinking about how to properly defend an entire planet from aliens, but using 8-10 people and a handful of planes just doesn't cut it for me.

My advice would be not to see the xenonauts as the known last hope of humanity but as a small extra bet on survival taken by nations.

I think the main issue here is that I DON'T have ADD, I WANT longer games. I really see no point in playing these types of games if all you're interested in is beating it. You get nothing out of beating it.

I spent 424 hours on this game and haven't seen the end of it yet. Heck I don't even know what the end is going to be.

My first game (on normal) was a loss as i spent my resources on everything i could. After that i figured out what was needed and what was luxury, so i started a new run on veteran.

As I came close to the end of the game (having played XCOM:EU and EW it was quite obvious when it would come) I thought to my self "I missed out tons of things i would really like to revisit" (for examle gameplay with mag weapons) so I started anew on insane.

Close to the end of that run i started a new one on veteran ironman mode and after many restarts I'm close to the end of the game and planning to finish it this time.(I do also plan to replay it ont insane ironman after i got beaten up pretty hard in my prevous trys on it)

And after said run throughs and game restarts, switching the research everytime I'm quite sure that i have spent the most time having fun with every mixture of research and equipment than i would have had if it would be possible to do it all in one game, even if it would have 5 times the length of a normal run.

Btw, I'm not trying to sound angry here. I just don't understand where you guys are coming from, wanting short games, few troops, and few bases.

I hope the things written above help understand atleast where I'm coming from

Edit: Just wanted to say, I don't increase my squad sizes beyond 8.

I would say that this justifies having more than 2 sqads. The reason i never have more than 1 sqad is that i really enjoy "bonding" with the characters in my sqad. I see the same names and faces in every ground mission, give my troops nicknames and know exactly what their capabilitys are without looking at their stats, which makes it all the more emotional if even just one trooper dies.

Edited August 31, 2014 by LtcWalker