Early game alien activity, funding, etc

[tunnelrat]

Playing a game on normal, I was surprised by the staggering number of UFOs present in just the first month of game time, in the North American zone alone.

I haven't played enough separate games, from scratch, to be able to determine if this is always the case... but in simply attempting to get some research done, after the first dozen ground missions I started sending up MiG-32's with 4x Avalanche loads to vaporize UFOs simply to attempt to stem the onslaught. At any given time, there could be up to 3 UFOs in the air over North America alone. By the time the first month ended, there'd be more than 40 UFOs, and close to 30 of those were non-fighters.

The sheer size of the alien armada required to field such a force would signify imminent invasion on a massive scale. It seems rather absurd that, armed with the damning evidence of such activity, that ones funding would be based upon such trivial details as "aliens escaped" during a mission.

You: "Gentlemen, as you can see here... we are facing the gravest threat mankind has ever faced..."

US Chief of Staff: "Ermm... I'm reading here that 2 aliens escaped from downed UFO #129?"

You: "Uh... I would need further clarification as to the specific mission, since we are literally being overrun, but aliens routinely escape from crash sites as our Combat Boots Mk. 1 are not always sufficient in speedy apprehension of..."

US Chief of Staff: "It shows here that over one hundred alien craft were detected and yet no intercepted..."

You: "Sir... we have lost 8 interceptors in the past 30 days... because they are faster, and are armed with technology we haven't yet been able to even..."

AU Chief of Staff: "Oy! We 'ad a bugga lan' in the North'est Terror Tree an' you dinna even respon' to im!"

You: "... Sir, we have one base. It's located in Colorado. We are unable to cover even the entire North American continent, let alone..."

USSR Chief of Staff: "Yes, this is good point! Why is base in middle of capitalist pig land when glorious people's army sends best troops from Afghanistan front to fight?! You have Boris Pavlov, Boris Pavlov, Yuri Pavlov, Maxim Kozlov, Nikolai Romanov, and Anton Novikov! If solider name end with "OV" Soviet Union sends them to fight alien menace, but we see nothing of this!"

You: "You know what? Eff this. Eff all of you. Enjoy your anal probes, I'm out."

French Chief of Staff: "Sheet guys... they're firing missiles at us..."

I am 100% all over this new creation... I just don't think the whole "grading system" jives with what is at hand let alone what is at stake. I know this is in keeping with the the legacy of the ancestral roots, but in its current iteration it just doesn't seem to fit.

This opinion isn't from Xenonauts alones... the premise that a given government will, based on your inability to protect them, cut your funding... eventually joining the enemy... flies in the face of logic. Aliens terrorizing Beijing? Get em on the phone, tell them we are ready to deal!! Don't get me wrong, I get the whole premise behind it, and it's not that it's too difficult per se, it just doesn't make solid sense when it is all put together.

If crime rises, do you cut funding to law enforcement?

You aren't competing with any other organizations, so it isn't as if there is any alternative... "Xenonauts, you suck, we're going with XenoSquad!"

So... suggestion wise... I guess:

1. Scale the initial engagements down to a level where "Do we really need these new "Xenonauts"/Proving yourself becomes legitimate.

And/or

2. Scale funding appropriately with the threat level. The media, regardless of government attempts, even in 1979, would be absolutely ignited with stories and images of the dozens of craft shot down all over a country in this kind of conflict. No government caught nickel diming the only defense initiative in such an unprecedented crisis would be in power for any appreciable length of time.

And/or

3. Change the criteria for a "successful" mission. Obliterating an invading craft in the sky is a big win. Killing X aliens while Y aliens escape (How is this even tracked? If big brother can grade us on this minute level, how about sharing this kind of intel during the mission?) being given a "poor" score seems a bit lopsided... you're fighting a vastly superior enemy.

And/or

4. Flesh out the backstory/ongoing news reports, etc in a way that seeks to explain these various points. How are these cold-war era countries getting along, in light of the shared enemy? Is there alien propaganda? Are there any bleeding heart movements portraying Xenonauts as the "bad guy", wantonly slaying these visitors from across the galaxy? Any wacky religious movements causing problems?

I really like the changes the dev team is making in regard to the deficiencies in the ancestral title... I just think the move toward making things more realistic is leaving some plot holes.

[Gauddlike]

The current ufo spawn system is not the final one.

They are simple spawns in order to give plenty of targets for testing.

The plan Chris has highlighted is for waves of enemies to attack with pauses between.

As the player becomes stronger by researching and successfully completing missions the aliens will respond by sending more or bigger vessels.

The pauses between waves should be enough to allow you to resupply, rebuild, research, and hopefully advance your own military strength.

The actual rewards for missions, penalties for failure, and reactions of the human governments will be balanced once the actual system to be used is implemented.

[Gorlom]

This opinion isn't from Xenonauts alones... the premise that a given government will, based on your inability to protect them, cut your funding... eventually joining the enemy... flies in the face of logic. Aliens terrorizing Beijing? Get em on the phone, tell them we are ready to deal!! Don't get me wrong, I get the whole premise behind it, and it's not that it's too difficult per se, it just doesn't make solid sense when it is all put together.

If crime rises, do you cut funding to law enforcement?

You aren't competing with any other organizations, so it isn't as if there is any alternative... "Xenonauts, you suck, we're going with XenoSquad!"

1) are you sure you put it ALL together? Infiltration, indoctrination or even straight up mindcontroll seems omitted or overlooked.

2) If the current law enforcement does not even try to enfroce law, do you not seek alternatives? Usually people end up takeing justice into their own hands when that happens.

3) Aren't you competeing with the local forces? If Xenonauts fail to defend them, they pull out to give more funds to their own militaries. Wouldn't you do that?

Edited March 9, 2012 by Gorlom

[Lightzy]

Totally agree with the OP

The game should have a narrative to it. A storyline..

At first aliens should be very rare and you'd get nearly no funding, then based on success you get more funding, then slowly the invasion starts becoming more and more serious at which point your in X-Com territory with governments singing deals with the aliens if you fail to score enough points etc

For someone who's never played X-Com, it should be an adventure and a story led experience.

We who are XCOM veterans don't tend to keep these ppl in mind

[thothkins]

Just wanted to add my tuppence to this one. Well, actually agree with the OP.

EU had an insidious threat. Starting off with a lone small scout in a crop field on an alien research mission, moving through abductions, harvesting and infiltration/ mind control with the strong hints that the Secotids were doing all of this to create a hybrid species. The twist being that the sectoids aren't in control, but are themselves led by the Ethereals. I'll admit that terror missions seem quite overt by comparison, but would still work on a very localised fashion "Deserted town discovered."

In early parts of games UFOs were relatively few in number, making funding very important. As previous posters have said, that was when governments could really look at alternatives. "Do we really need these guys?" "The alien threat isn't that huge." etc. It built up momentum in other words and it was well paced.

Hey, I'm giving preaching to the converted here. I see that there's infiltration and at least a couple of the old mission types in the research tree. I just wanted to contrast EU with the "three thousand seperate UFOs in orbit around the planet, with several times that amount of additional probable signals" entry that the xenopedia has. It's a warning of extinction and the governments are falling apart. As the OP suggests, no one would care buttons about the odd escapee, they would just be grateful that a ship was down and wish you luck with the remaining 2999.

Perhaps some indication of the sheer panic that nations are undergoing would help to reinforce the scarcity of funding?

'Due to low success, the USA has diverted funding into it's SDI program.'

'Rising panic in Indochina has seen old conflicts reingnite with nuclear options not ruled out. Funding has been reduced.'

'The Soviet Union has blamed the USA over it's poor treatment of Roswell EBEs. It redirects funding to it's orbital Psychotron amplifier.'

' The Austalian government has declared a Free Fosters Day, planning to be inebriated when the aliens attack. Australasian funding is spent on lager this month.'

It is nice to know where all the ships come from this time. You never got to tour the Cydonia manufacturing facilities in EU.

Another thought is that it's made clear that the escaped aliens cause further havoc beyond the landing area, while the troops have to return to deal with the next crisis. Could be done on the mission breakdown or on the geoscape following a mission. Just a thought.

[jamoecw]

the OP is right, something needs to be done to show why things are the way things are. i forget which game but one of the xcomish games stated that if any aliens survive the mission they will wreak havoc. i think the first one stated that the aliens are repairing their ships, which is why it is important to get to them rather than let the local authorities deal with them eventually. though chris has stated that the first game was played sort of in a void, and that he was going to try and rectify that, which means that when it is all said and done you will have competition in the form of locals doing stuff.

[Gauddlike]

I am sure Chris has said at some point that the aliens can't survive long term without something their ships provide.

I seem to think it was some kind of nutrient in their food but that could be wrong.

It is only important then to stop them using the downed UFO as a base to cause problems or repairing it and leaving.

Any you don't take out while taking the UFO will not last long enough to be a serious threat.

That kind of information is probably in a xenopedia entry we haven't seen yet.

[thothkins]

well, it certainly matches the origianl game. There was that unused craft thingy called Alien Habitat wasn't there.

That was a nod to the old UFO TV show where the aliens, and their ships had real trouble surviving in Earth's atmosphere.

In fact, that made R&D a real struggle for SHADO. The aliens died in surgery and the ships were scrap.

[Chris]

Yeah this all needs some balancing still. The problem is that we can't currently set how many UFOs spawn in each wave and how fast that increases, which is functionality we'll add with time. We'll make the starting waves bigger (maybe 4 UFOs worldwide in each wave) so you'll aways get one near your base, but have the numbers increase much more slowly than at the moment.

[thothkins]

Without knowing much of the backstory beyond the Iceland Incident. Is it vital that 3000 appear in our skies at one time.

From the Iceland Incident (plus any previous incursions such as New Mexican ones allegedly in 1947-51), the nations of the world know that there are other civilisations out there.

As they try to reverse engineer or infer intentions with every scrap of evidence at their disposal, they also look to the skies. The first SETI experiment was in 1960 for example, not long after the in game Iceland incident (just aobut enough time to build the thing)

Interestingly, the SETI WOW signal of 72 seconds was received in 1977. Possibly in game this could relate to the nations now knowing that something was definitely on it's way, without it hovering in orbit. the the scouts begin to arrive, sending them into utter panic and enabling the formation of the Xenonauts.

Just a thought to possibly add a bit more suspense, add in some real world dates and ideas and still keep to the proposed storyline.

[Hellstormer]

If crime rises, do you cut funding to law enforcement?

To answer this question in cities like Detroit this sadly actually happens...

[jamoecw]

oakland as well. though if crime decreases there is also a budget cut, as less police are needed to maintain the same level of crime prevention. also if the economy tanks there is a cut, or if the economy increases. there is other stuff going on which makes this seem more sane, but yeah it happens quite regularly in areas of high crime.

[freeaxle]

Without knowing much of the backstory beyond the Iceland Incident. Is it vital that 3000 appear in our skies at one time.

From the Iceland Incident (plus any previous incursions such as New Mexican ones allegedly in 1947-51), the nations of the world know that there are other civilisations out there.

As they try to reverse engineer or infer intentions with every scrap of evidence at their disposal, they also look to the skies. The first SETI experiment was in 1960 for example, not long after the in game Iceland incident (just aobut enough time to build the thing)

Interestingly, the SETI WOW signal of 72 seconds was received in 1977. Possibly in game this could relate to the nations now knowing that something was definitely on it's way, without it hovering in orbit. the the scouts begin to arrive, sending them into utter panic and enabling the formation of the Xenonauts.

Just a thought to possibly add a bit more suspense, add in some real world dates and ideas and still keep to the proposed storyline.

It would be nice if there was more story in the game than in the original X-Com, and you have the advantage of being able to link real-world events into the story. So yes, I think that the suggestions you've made Thothkins are really quite good. The only potential problem would be in delivering this information through the game. Personally, I'd love to have a news-feed (or perhaps email like JA2) which gives information on the world at large, though this would be a diversion of resources that perhaps cannot be diverted. Just a fleshing out of the story in the UFOpedia would be good. Funnily enough, I'd recommend X-men (what is it with the x's?) First Class as a top-notch Cold War alternative-history.

[thothkins]

I don;t think you have to look further than the orginal game as an example. For all everyone rightly proases the team for the resource management and the tactical battlescape, they did an excellent job of distilling decades UFOlogy into a small number of paragraphs.

It's an alternate history that already coexists with our real one (sorry UFO buffs) and continues to be ripe for picking.

[freeaxle]

I don;t think you have to look further than the orginal game as an example. For all everyone rightly proases the team for the resource management and the tactical battlescape, they did an excellent job of distilling decades UFOlogy into a small number of paragraphs.

It's an alternate history that already coexists with our real one (sorry UFO buffs) and continues to be ripe for picking.

Whilst I am a big fan of the original X-Com, its story and the UFOpedia, the story was very B-grade. That's not a criticism, b-grade has its place. But I'd argue that Xenonauts has created a great asses with the Cold War storyline alternative, and that story has the potential to be better, more fleshed out and ultimately more sophisticated than the original X-COM. Hence, I'd love to see it featured in the actual game if possible.

[Lotean]

you know. the OP has a wonderful idea. and hey we can even throw the cold war into it. Like russia will pay more if you... neglect to defend certain places such as military targets and the US will pay if you... neglect to send your ground teams to recover downed UFO's. maybe even say if 'local forces' such as spetsnaz or Delta force, defeated the alien craft on the ground or if the aliens got away.

Giving them a greater chance to discover where your bases are. Maybe even have alien 'rescue' missions where the alien menace is trying to get intel on you just like you are on them...

[BobbyDylan]

It made sense to me. The less that government felt you were doing to protect it, the more it would fund it's own defence (most likely unsuccessfully).