Illogical things in the game

[Went]

Just for fun. I'm clearly understand these things never be fixed, but for my tediousness I need to tell about

1. All the humanity is under deadly alien terror, but only one organization with ridiculous budget fights against it.

2. Player interceptor have to land only on player base. So if it haven't enough of fuel, it just falls down instead of landing on any local airfield.

3. When enemy UFO lands, not my, nor local aircrafts unable to airstrike it. In the mean time, any crashed UFO can be easily destroyed.

4. Alien-tech weapon can require so much alien materials and work time like a alien-tech interceptor.

5. Player is unable to send two dropships on one crash site.

6. Player is unable to store alien weapons, meanwhile able to use it on the field.

7. For some strange reason, in final mission player is unable to carry to enemy dreadnought fussion bomb, instead this he tries to kill enemy praetor with soldiers.

8. For same strange reason, aliens "study" humans, losing their super-technologies and soldiers. Million-year creatures so stupid, that by their hands digging their own graves.

[FireStorm1010]

Yes the whole concept of an XCOM game is pretty silly , if you think of it .But it makes for a damn fine game topic , as some games have demonstrated.

[Ragnarok]

What annoys me is the fact that its 1979, the cold war is still strong and there should be a ZILLION fighters all around the world, yet YOU have to use 2 normal fighters to hunt single UFOs.

Im like "wat ?"

Or Ufo lands, you find 5 civs, 2 neutral soldiers.

wat ?

Where are tanks, special ops ? The world is building on military investitions and yet you use 10 Privates to clear UFOs...

[Went]

Yep, strong local forces in some missions would be nice.

[StellarRat]

Don't look behind the curtain! Actually, someone could design a much larger UFO defense game where the whole Earth is working to stop an invasion. I might actually play something like that. I have doubts that individual recovery missions, etc... would be modeled though.

[IronCobra]

I'll add to this.

The fact that your troops have military training, yet they throw grenades right into the back of your crouching buddy's head right in front of you.

Btw not knocking the game, its fudging brilliant, just having a bit of a laugh while watching the comedy gold that is Germany vs Brazil..

[Went]

I have "invented" some time ago "X-Com" there tactical-shooting missions replaced with wargame-like battles (like a Panzer General).

[kabill]

What annoys me is the fact that its 1979, the cold war is still strong and there should be a ZILLION fighters all around the world, yet YOU have to use 2 normal fighters to hunt single UFOs.

Im like "wat ?"

Or Ufo lands, you find 5 civs, 2 neutral soldiers.

wat ?

Where are tanks, special ops ? The world is building on military investitions and yet you use 10 Privates to clear UFOs...

Presumably, they're still all on standby in case the USSR/USA take advantage of the alien war to launch an attack. The Cold War setting is actually a really good explanation for why you have so few resources: no one is willing to risk dedicating anything significant to fighting the aliens because they don't want to weaken themselves and get nuked/whatever by their enemies.

[JabbatheConqueror]

Presumably, they're still all on standby in case the USSR/USA take advantage of the alien war to launch an attack. The Cold War setting is actually a really good explanation for why you have so few resources: no one is willing to risk dedicating anything significant to fighting the aliens because they don't want to weaken themselves and get nuked/whatever by their enemies.

Yeah that's very...logical. Because they would stand and repel the ufo, just like their defeated foe? Irony aside, that doesn't make sense. Whether its soviets or nato, you can't fight and win with a race that have billions of creatures at their hand, and battleships several kilometers in diameter with singularities, and fusion bombs hanging at your orbit.

[legit1337]

Just for fun. I'm clearly understand these things never be fixed, but for my tediousness I need to tell about

1. All the humanity is under deadly alien terror, but only one organization with ridiculous budget fights against it.

2. Player interceptor have to land only on player base. So if it haven't enough of fuel, it just falls down instead of landing on any local airfield.

3. When enemy UFO lands, not my, nor local aircrafts unable to airstrike it. In the mean time, any crashed UFO can be easily destroyed.

4. Alien-tech weapon can require so much alien materials and work time like a alien-tech interceptor.

5. Player is unable to send two dropships on one crash site.

6. Player is unable to store alien weapons, meanwhile able to use it on the field.

7. For some strange reason, in final mission player is unable to carry to enemy dreadnought fussion bomb, instead this he tries to kill enemy praetor with soldiers.

8. For same strange reason, aliens "study" humans, losing their super-technologies and soldiers. Million-year creatures so stupid, that by their hands digging their own graves.

1. Agree, single weakest plot point of the x-com series.

2. Local militaries are wary of xenonauts, whom they see as an outside organization and do not let them land.

3. UFOs tend to land in populated areas where there would be a lot of collateral damage. Evacuation is not an option because the UFO might take off before then, xenonauts have to move in on foot immediately to contain the threat. Airstriking crashed UFOs is an option because they aren't going anywhere, that means time to clear the area, contain the aliens and nuke them.

4. Agree. I think it is dumb that a plasma rifle takes more time to assemble then a high-tech alien interception craft.

5. Agree. But it is for balance reasons.

6. They are not built for our anatomy, we cannot use them properly. It would be better just to use our weaker but more reliable guns.

7. I have not gotten this far in the game yet, but the alien mothership is probably protected by strong shields. An infiltration/assassination team is the only way to reliably sever the head of the alien invasion. Whereas a bomb might have technical issues, may not kill its target, or may not be able to be delivered reliably.

8. The praetors are studying humans because they want to take the best of our genetic traits and add them to their own genetic makeup. They got immortality from studying seb regeneration, and psionics from the caesans, and subjugated them both into slave races. If I had to take a guess as to which trait they would want from our species, I would say our innate sense of creativity. Or our stubbornness, as humans are often depicted as determinators (tvtropes) in science fiction as being our unique trait that sets us apart from any other alien race.

[BugPowderDust]

The thing that frustrates me the most it the inability to flick a nade over a hedge or wall- as if it was 100ft high.

[kabill]

Whether its soviets or nato, you can't fight and win with a race that have billions of creatures at their hand, and battleships several kilometers in diameter with singularities, and fusion bombs hanging at your orbit.

Except, in the context of the game, you can! (And do).

Perhaps I read the game too literally, but really the alien invasion is small-fry. Sure, they fly a few UFOs over your country every now and again, abduct some farmers, cause some storms, whatever. Yeah, sometimes they shoot up a mall, or bomb a town, sink some ships (actually, that last one might cause some concern).

But comparatively speaking, none of that's especially significant. Causalities during the Second World War reached tens of millions, while the USA/USSR (depending on whose side you're on) have enough nuclear weapons to destroy literally every single inch of the planet and then some. In context, the alien attacks are really quite insignificant.

Of course, *it turns out* that this isn't the case. In fact, as you say, the aliens possess utterly overwhelming force. But no one actually knows that for the vast majority of the game. So my point, then, is that the alien invasion - if you read the stuff that happens in the game literally, anyway - isn't actually especially important. Or at least, it's certainly not so important that a country would spend a large amount of its military resources fighting and thus leave itself vulnerable to those countries that aren't doing the same

In fact, it's actually a pretty classic game-theory situation, and given that game-theory was a fairly common models used to plan and anticipate activity during the Cold War, I think that only makes the plausibility of my argument stronger.

(Also, if you want a real-world empirical case, think about current issues to do with climate change. It's anticipated that if it goes unchecked, climate change could have radical and quite disastrous consequences for human societies worldwide. And yet environment issues are continually relegated to second place in comparison with, well, just about anything else. Because no one seems willing to be the 'fall guy' and risk screwing themselves over in order to make a difference for everyone.)

[Ogaburan]

1. Never had a problem with it, is there anywhere stated that you are the only organization fighting this?

The way I always saw it:

- You are just one GLOBAL organization, and nations/regions are reluctant to fund you as they want/try to handle things their own.

(explains the odd loss of funding because of somewhat silly reasons)

- The UFO's you do manage to detect are just a small fraction of the whole force.

- The nations you lose are just nation that were fed up with the organization and decided to fund their own national defense organizations.

- If you win you just manage to stop a global war/actual invasion.

So i think the cold war is a very good setting, because both major players are both busy and distrusting of a global united force.

This also explains why nations only send you their privates...

2. Due to the really bad political situation, Xcom needs to both prove they can handle things on their own.

And not show "public" association to either Capitalist Pigs/Commy Bastards by... lets say landing a plane in their base.

Think of the PR problems "US Taxpayer money funding Soviet Airforce" could do...

When a picture of the X-Plane landing in a soviet base is attached.

3. UFO magical-science-gizmos operational/none-operational.

4. Im actually using the Magnumonauts mod to counter this.

I dont think its realistic for soldiers to have refitted alien weapons after a few months of war.

For these reasons:

- Bureaucracy, most weapons will be sent to this or that agency/government/institution to awe at.

- Really stupid "classified"/"top secret" tags, that the grunts would not have access to.

- Theft. Almost all organizations/governments would want to stockpile of these...

- Better uses, considering the weapons have very powerful energy sources, they would probably be used for better more generic things to support the war. Like manufacturing tools or better & faster computing.

So soldiers in "my universe" have to deal with the invasion with proper Clint Eastwood approved "human weapons".

5. Balance issues, its already somewhat of a logistical nightmare.

Do you really want to control 20+ soldiers?

Just outfitting them makes me shiver...

6. see my 4...

7. Do to insert_techno-babble_here it is obviously not possible!

If we do that the kaboom will be too big! And will destroy the planet!

But if we infiltrate them... kill most on board... we will have enough time to make a smaller explosion!

Samantha Carter: For some reason, the warping of our space-time is in advance of the gravity field rather than as a result of it. It's probably a lensing effect of the stargate itself, but I can't be sure.

Colonel Cromwell: (to Jack O'Neill, who's nodding) Don't even pretend you understand that.

— "A Matter of Time", Stargate SG-1

Like most sci fi things... just go with it... dont fight it...

I think the fault is on your part here. Over-thinking a game in a sci fi settings.

8. Thats a good point.

Hard to make an excuse for this that is not: "For obvious game mechanics... Duh!"

Here are my attempts:

- Deterioration of gene pool made them kinda "smart-but-dumb", inbred style.

- But sir, this worked so well on other planets, why fix or adapt for this one?

- Underestimating the human threat.

- End goal obsession makes them short term blind.

- Alien concepts of death and "acceptable losses".

If you read the xenophobia entries it kinda makes more sense, their individual clones are extremely expendable and probably most of their high tech is and material is. Just for that end goal, that's their magnum opus and maybe only reason for existence.

Mostly a combination of all these factors.

[Ogaburan]

The thing that frustrates me the most it the inability to flick a nade over a hedge or wall- as if it was 100ft high.

As this video demonstrates:

One cannot.

[Mick]

I was raiding a base and doing an all right job when the game just randomly crashed... (gives me an excuse to load the auto save and perhaps save a solder, and not have to baton another...) So I stumbled upon this forum. My biggest problems, are the fact that:

A. As Scott Manley has pointed out, the pilots of your drop ships, don't give you a view right outside their front window.

B. You've just flown over a crash or landing site, and you have now idea what the terrain is.

C. I'd imagine that even in a rushed deployment mission, if you were going to respond to a terror site, you would have some idea what the layout of the city is. Even in a super rushed scramble you would have enough time for your mission commander to grab a map, or get in contact with local forces get some briefing.

D. No pilots in general. Planes, and tanks have no experience modifier and there is no recruitment process for them. Yes, would add more micromanagement to a game that already has a lot of micromanagement. But why not...

E. Somehow in 1979 40% of your recruits are women. I'm just saying militaries are just considering using women in combat roles however you get a ton of perfectly trained and capable women. I don't personally have a problem with it. Most of the arguments against women in combat evaporate when your fighting aliens (I don't feel a need to elaborate...) look at Starship Troopers (one of the best don't bother arguing you won't change my mind) however this is 1979.

That's it off the top of my head. I'll find more. HOWEVER let me state that I am happy with every single penny that I have spent on this game. If anybody has any mods that fix some of these issues for me let me know!

[haukka81]

This is game, and game's need clear rules. Even hardcore strategys are unrealistic and illogical many ways if you think too much it.

Thats the way it is. Games will always have unrealistic limitations

Simple as that

-haukka81

[JabbatheConqueror]

The only possible way to change aliens plan, would be to inflict more damage/cost to them, than they would receive by their goals. But seeing as they are creatures with unlimited power, and their civilization lost any purpose or goals of such mundane things like resources, i think they will be relentless. They just want something that is special[genes/abilities] and can't be manufactured[silly game concept, they wouldn't need humans for genetic engineering, because they could engineer the ability at hand], and the cost is not a matter. Someone could compare this to USA vs Afghani talibans, but as i said above, it's not a resource war where the losses and gains are waged versus each other.

Well it is important, but we would have to inflict a losses that would have to crumble their vast empire. Destroy their colonies, threaten their homeworld, enslave them etc. But this is not a case. They have mastered the creation of matter from energy, even if we somehow destroyed their forces, they could rebuild them in matter of days.

[JabbatheConqueror]

E. Somehow in 1979 40% of your recruits are women. I'm just saying militaries are just considering using women in combat roles however you get a ton of perfectly trained and capable women. I don't personally have a problem with it. Most of the arguments against women in combat evaporate when your fighting aliens (I don't feel a need to elaborate...) look at Starship Troopers (one of the best don't bother arguing you won't change my mind) however this is 1979.

This is annoying for me too. Too much women in military, the only country that have women in regular frontline military formations in 1979 was Israel. And even yet, the women in Israeli army, are not enlisted to the role of heavy gunners[they have training though]. Even some men have problems with using M240 machineguns, because they are damn heavy. But there are exceptions to that rule of course, and i could see a few of strong women to fit that role. Unfortunately the "exception" ingame means "common".

[Went]

- You are just one GLOBAL organization, and nations/regions are reluctant to fund you as they want/try to handle things their own. (explains the odd loss of funding because of somewhat silly reasons)

Why another ones doesn't even try to intercept enemy UFOs or terror sites?

- The UFO's you do manage to detect are just a small fraction of the whole force.

No. You see all of UFOs arrive our planet. Because only they make "accidents" on the globe.

- The nations you lose are just nation that were fed up with the organization and decided to fund their own national defense organizations.

So i think the cold war is a very good setting, because both major players are both busy and distrusting of a global united force.

This also explains why nations only send you their privates...

No they are not. Any biological kind unite against common enemy. And humans not a exception.

2. Due to the really bad political situation, Xcom needs to both prove they can handle things on their own.

And not show "public" association to either Capitalist Pigs/Commy Bastards by... lets say landing a plane in their base.

American goverment give me money to build base in Moscow, but didn't forgive me if my plane will land there? Weak argument.

3. UFO magical-science-gizmos operational/none-operational.

Yep, magic can explain everything. But this is not only story issue, this is gameplay issue too. It make me mad, when enemy UFO lands in front of the nose of my interceptors and they need to return to base, because have not enough fuel to patrol area until UFO will take off.

5. Balance issues, its already somewhat of a logistical nightmare.

Do you really want to control 20+ soldiers?

Just outfitting them makes me shiver...

Yes. Balance issue make game illogical.

7. Do to insert_techno-babble_here it is obviously not possible!

If we do that the kaboom will be too big! And will destroy the planet!

But if we infiltrate them... kill most on board... we will have enough time to make a smaller explosion!

First. No, we have not enough time. Enormous reapers give us no time at all.

Second. Hyperdrive malfunction is too obvious for intergalactic race. Sure, they have invented anti-malfunction device, in other case all the universe will be filled by such "unreachable places".

Third. Player dropship would be destroyed once he will try to reach enemy dreadnought.

Etc. No, final mission legend is sic as hell.

8. Thats a good point.

Hard to make an excuse for this that is not: "For obvious game mechanics... Duh!"

First. Gene pool itself is a illogical because alien gene structure will be incompatible with ours. Moreover, for millon-year creatures gene table will be such obvious thing like a Lego for our children.

Second. There is many other ways to discover human kind in place of UFOs flying and city terror. Such brutal actions is incompatible with such high-developed super-mind.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Went

[ViniJones]

Agreeing with Went on point 5. I think theres not enough action going down on the gc, too few aliens too few soldiers and hardware. The geosphere is a whole another matter, which could be so much more macro it hurts.

[Ogaburan]

Why another ones doesn't even try to intercept enemy UFOs or terror sites?

They do, just not the ones you detected.

Sharing information about radar (or other?) detection systems are still a taboo.

No. You see all of UFOs arrive our planet. Because only they make "accidents" on the globe

You must have misunderstood the whole tone of my post then, this is how I choose to view things, so it will make more sense for me.

I know I am wrong on this by game pure lore, but I care not. The games "vanilla" lore is flawed as far as im concerned, and im trying to make excuses for it so that "my universe" will work for me.

No they are not. Any biological kind unite against common enemy. And humans not a exception.

Yes you are right, basing your assumption on the famous 80's alien invasion in which all world governments united under one flag...?

Oh wait...

Its pointless to even argue such a fictitious scenarios... I at least am not interested in doing so, especially over the internet.

What I am saying is, that based on the game rules and mechanics.

This is the scenario I think makes the most sense.

American goverment give me money to build base in Moscow, but didn't forgive me if my plane will land there? Weak argument.

It is all about flags.

Think about the hassle over "area 54" where everything going in and out of it is photographed by civilians and analyzed.

I am sure a plane credited with downing a UFO will be tracked by civilian media until it lands for "scopes" and what not. Seeing it land in a different faction of the civil war (flag-wise) might drag with it consequences governments would like to avoid.

I tend to stay clear of building bases near the "major" players US/USSR for that role playing reason.

Yep, magic can explain everything. But this is not only story issue, this is gameplay issue too. It make me mad, when enemy UFO lands in front of the nose of my interceptors and they need to return to base, because have not enough fuel to patrol area until UFO will take off.

Here is how is see this (again these are excuses i've made to compensate for game mechanics):

Xcom guidelines specifically prohibits the bombardment of alien crafts on the ground before they were thoroughly "cleared", for the following reasons:

- Fear of some kind of reaction core mega-explosion costing life/a Chernobyl like contamination.

- Fear of the destruction of vital information about the biological entities on the craft.

- Fear of the destruction of vital information and about alien equipment.

So, only after a crash site is "cleared" one can move in and take all the goodies.

SO you can either send in your own organization to "clear" it, or you share the information with other governments who "clear it" and only give you but a fraction of the "loot".

I just ignore the whole "airstrike" wording.

Yes. Balance issue make game illogical.

Yes, you basically want a totally different game if you want that.

Xcom at its core is a tactical squad turn based game, not an alien invasion simulation or alien panzer commander.

There are mods who ramp up the numbers of soldiers you can bring (to a max of 10 i think).

I would feel butt-hurt if the kickstarter promised me Xcom-Reborn and I got some management game about equipping 50 soldiers for 3 hour long combat missions...

First. No, we have not enough time. Enormous reapers give us no time at all.

Second. Hyperdrive malfunction is too obvious for intergalactic race. Sure, they have invented anti-malfunction device, in other case all the universe will be filled by such "unreachable places".

Third. Player dropship would be destroyed once he will try to reach enemy dreadnought.

Etc. No, final mission legend is sic as hell.

Are you even aware you are making assumptions on the limitations of technologies that does not exists?

I wont take part in the "what makes the enterprise engine move" type of discussions.

I think ive provided a plausible scenario, feel free to disagree...

First. Gene pool itself is a illogical because alien gene structure will be incompatible with ours. Moreover, for millon-year creatures gene table will be such obvious think like a Lego for our children.

Second. There is many other ways to discover human kind in place of UFOs flying and city terror. Such brutal actions is incompatible with such high-developed super-mind.

... not sure I should even comment.

it seems your vision of the "Aliens" is pretty much set in stone and you are narrow minded enough to be unwilling to rethink it.

You are injecting your ideas of morals/efficiency/death/superiority on to a fictitious alien culture.

And when someone tries to make you think outside of the box and not just say "game mechanics dammit! its just a game"

Your response is "No! Nonsense!".

Good luck with that then...

[Thaxlsyssilyaan]

The thing that frustrates me the most it the inability to flick a nade over a hedge or wall- as if it was 100ft high.

Grenade fly in arc, just don't stand right at the hedge, but let 1 or 2 tiles between you and the edge.

[IronCobra]

Yep, but throwing it against your mates head, kneeling in front of you, really doesn't make the Xenonaughts seem military trained.

Edited July 9, 2014 by IronCobra

[Mick]

I find myself tending to agree with the fact that there wouldn't be any major public collaboration with the capitalist west and the communist east. The incidents are indeed way to isolated for the early game to force the US and SU into public total collaboration.

This was the Era of Leonid Brezhnev and Carter/Reagan... it comes at a period ending Détente and increasing hostility amongst both countries. The United States and Mainland China had JUST normalized diplomatic relations. Kim Il-Sung's personality cult was still in full swing and no doubt would single handedly be claiming the exploits of the Xenonauts as his own (Lolz crazy DPRK) Persia ceased to be and became IRAN, no doubt the Ayatollah was more than happy for the alien invasion as IRANs leadership is all part of a crazy Islamic apocalypse cult. He would be shouting stuff like "The return of the Twelfth Imam is at hand!" India and Pakistan are likely completely absorbed with their own conflicts.

So pretty much all the largest armies in the world would be completely tied up with the still in swing Cold War. Game Lore wise, the Iceland incident almost turned into an apocalypse anyway. The world is under the impression that the Soviets just attempted an aggressive invasion of a NATO protected territory... so I'd imagine that Politically the hostility would perhaps even be more magnified than the real world political situation actually was.

[Jukaga]

The only beef I've got with the game lore-wise is that the contributing nations nickle and dime you when you're trying to save the bloody planet, but as it's a game we do need a reason to limit resources so setting the game during the peak of the Cold War was sublime genius in taking almost all the wind out of that objection.

If there was a bit more feedback from the game when funding is going down that would improve the feel of the game, something like a newspaper clipping mid-war along the lines of 'Indonesia strikes deal with Outsiders, ends all international co-operation'. Flavour text and events would do this game a great service. Still, it's the most compelling time I spend in front of my PC outside of tense encounters in DayZ.