Hokum Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Chris, any idea when you are going to reveal this new project? I'd maim for that info. It was rather devious of him to say that the project would be announced in a few weeks. That was in May, and I've been wondering since. Edited July 9, 2014 by Hokum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiel Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 W/e Chris makes gonna be awesome, I'm like 100% sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Went Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 What's the point? I can understand advantages fully 3d game would give, that is, intereting cover, buildings, etc. But 3d models on 2d maps, why? Maps are predominantly static objects. Walls, grounds, furniture - all this doesn't move, so it's looks better like a flat spite, drawn exactly for projection as player looks at them. But units (soldiers, machines) - dynamic. They turning, breathing, moving in different directions, they have lots of special animations like firing, dying, throwing e.t.c. Moreover, units are highly customizable - they can carry different weapons, ammunition, armor, can have different sex and faces, can belong to different players (not in X-Com) e.t.c. So when you want to have soldiers drawn with 2d sprites, you may have picture of each unit in each orientation with each weapon in each armor of each sex and face, and for all of this you need long row of animation frames. Just multiply all of this and you'll get enormous quantity of content. You want to add any new weapon or armor? Then render soldier with all these orientations, sexes e.t.c. You wan to change something else - you'll need to rerender ALL THIS CONTENT! In the same time 3d units will give you absolute freedom in clothing, equipping, turning soldier, absolute smooth frame rate, and just DRAMATICAL economy of content and time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntota Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Well, all i need is 2, maybe 3 sprites for every soldier. That is, stationary, moving, firing (maybe also throwing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitso Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Well, all i need is 2, maybe 3 sprites for every soldier. That is, stationary, moving, firing (maybe also throwing). Not sure if serious? 7 animations (shoot, crouch shoot, crouch, walk, throw, die, heal) x 20 frames per animation x 8 directions x 6 armours x 40 weapons =268800 animation frames. Its immense amount of labour. (I know it's not exact and I cut corners, but makes my point) Edited July 9, 2014 by Skitso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Remember this is not "my" word or "your" word, is what the audience want, Im pretty sure that you know what I mean... People want more. If we are talking about "profit" is a waste dont give support and continuity to a community that dont want to see the game stationary. I have to point out that this is only your own view of what the community wants. I for one am happy with the release of Xenonauts and am looking forward to information on the next Goldhawk game. I have very little interest in DLC for this game and would much prefer to see more progress made on the next title instead. People always want more and people invariably moan about having to pay for it as well. I think it is a very good move to draw a line under Xenonauts and say this is done, time to move on. The amount of support Goldhawk have already given to the community surpasses what most games get in their whole lifespan. The community editions of the game are a great example of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I think I understand now. No matter how sophistcated, how slick, how well presented any particular mod or any of the CE's become, they are missing one vital thing. They are not canon. It's the difference between Forgeworld and the Codici. The difference between the Expanded Universe and the six films. The difference between The Leaky Cauldron and Pottermore. They just aren't canon, and there's a certain degree of resistance to anything that isn't canon. DLC, however, is canon. And that's as much as a blind man can explain to an equally blind audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I think I understand now. No matter how sophistcated, how slick, how well presented any particular mod or any of the CE's become, they are missing one vital thing. They are not canon. It's the difference between Forgeworld and the Codici. The difference between the Expanded Universe and the six films. The difference between The Leaky Cauldron and Pottermore. They just aren't canon, and there's a certain degree of resistance to anything that isn't canon. DLC, however, is canon. And that's as much as a blind man can explain to an equally blind audience. Im a ignorant hopeless man Max.... I dont understand nothing Can you enlight me? Gaudlike, yes maybe your right maybe is time to let it run and wait to see other tittle. (Im on smartphone again sorry if I write like a donkey) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thats partulially true, I disagree at some point, is more simple than you think. Thetr is a huge difference when you ask some one to help you build a wall than hire some to build a wall. The resulting wall is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thetr is a huge difference when you ask some one to help you build a wall than hire some to build a wall. The resulting wall is different. You'd be amazed how creative building a wall can get, mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You'd be amazed how creative building a wall can get, mate! ! The image talk by itself Kevin you made my day with this one ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ! The image talk by itselfKevin you made my day with this one ! It talks by itself? It's one of those singing carp plaques that activate when you walk by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_the_nerd Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I guess I'm the token weirdo, but I like the 2D graphics. They're retro-chic, but they're extraordinarily well done; at resolutions and details game designers/artists in the late '90s would have wept to see. The only thing I miss vs. XCOM:EU is camera rotation. If GHI makes another turn-based tactical game, I would encourage them to look at the horribly under-utilized backstory from the XCOM predecessor Laser Squad for inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It talks by itself? It's one of those singing carp plaques that activate when you walk by? Very funny pal, I'm not use to write in english. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Went Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 If GHI makes another turn-based tactical game, I would encourage them to look at the horribly under-utilized backstory from the XCOM predecessor Laser Squad for inspiration. Laser Squad is the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axiar Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hey Hey Hold on!You know Chris that I have lot of respect and admiration to you and GH developers I know that the "Xenonauts Path" was hard, was long and probably you'r tired of all "that" mess. I understand. but... Make games is not related to the engine, 3D, 2D, support or "not support", etc. Innovation is about creativity and logistic, nothing more than that. A good design in game system is "Engine proof", no matter which resources you have. Examples? 1. Right now I know people that play TETRIS, maybe you will tell me that this game is made in other "age" of history of game design, but is not true, actually we are in a dark age of game development. The "MTV" and "Call of Duty" generation sink quick the industry. What game industry needs? Creativity and Risk. 2. The guys go Deus Ex Human revolution, from a small group of developers of Eidos France, like Xeonauts other remake. They work on Crystal Dynamics engine, soon they discover that the engine limit a lot the amount of choices and interactions that they want. What they did? They modify the engine and use all the resources that have at hand. The result? Maybe not has they plan, but better! they adjust at the environment and complexity of the engine to make one of the best FP-RPG ever made. I strongly believe that Xenonauts has a lot of Raw jewel, the game itself has a huge amount of possibilities but all that you think is "little professional art"? This time I disagree, the game needs a better creativity director that plan, make statistical diagram and analytics of the game. And ... come on "Free DLC"? Come on... Even players post here that hey want to pay for MORE material to the game... Are you ashame of your own game? are you bored to deal with game code? did you lost love in your own creation? Long time ago some one tell me "Game development is all about passion, creativity and planning" The result of that phrase? "Journey" PD/ Sorry about my disastrous english, I'm on smartphone. Chris is not personal. THIS GUY knows its shit. Yes man, dont let other talk you out, xeno is indeed, a RAW JEWEL. I see EXACTLY what you are talking about, and I even think that the game itselfs deserves better. I mean, yes, its not perfect, but it works and its super fun blablabla... but I can see as you do SO MUCH room for growth, addition, polishing and enhacement that, well, the amount of things that have been coming out as mods speaks for themselves. I read your post and I even had to check if I didnt wrote it myself On other hand, I understand chris. Its impossible to stay in the same thing over and over for 5, less, or more years... you just need to move on, its sad, but I think that the best thing would some sort of... agreement with another indie company that could be willing to keep on enhacing, polish, and even adding the best of all mods out there to xeno, and make it CANON (I get that one too, is spot on), and it should be, and I am also ok, be PAID and NOT free. But well, in the meantime... is the best xcom version out there thats not actually the OGs so... we have that for us wich is nice cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafireliv Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think it`s a real shame they stopped working on this. I discovered this game only a week ago and posted what a prize this was and fully thought it was a work in progress only to hear they`ve stopped working on it except for modders. Seriously this game is a diamond in the rough (to use another anology), nothing would make me happier than to see the Creators get back on this and bring on that diamond! I personally think it could, over the long term, be greatly prized over the recent Xcom, even if it may not make quite as much cash short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The game has an 80 Metacritic score - I'm not sure I'd describe it should be described as "raw" or "rough". Unfinished games tend to get savaged by critics for being unfinished. In any case, most of the fundamental issues of the game are design issues and would not be fixed by adding more content. You'd end up with a longer game rather than a better one, and Xenonauts is plenty long / big already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegeri Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 No, we're not planning a new version of the game. Honestly, it'd be easier for us just to recode the game from scratch using Unity if we were going to make a more tactical simulator. We have opened the source code to the community to allow them to modify the game and make it less linear and make the game more diverse....they seem to be doing a good job so far. It's really amazing to see such incredibly straight talk from a developer. Personally, I can understand your point of view and while I don't think Xenonauts main problems are unsolvable, they probably aren't solvable in ways that keep the game the one you wanted (which is clearly air centric and relies on a very fine line between winning/losing, unlike XCOM or X-COM where you can prolong the game as long as you like before winning). Personally I would like some more aliens and a rebalancing of the geoscape to make anything other than a handful of base positions genuinely viable, but again: It would be changing the game into something else. Meanwhile, we're going to be working on another turn-based tactical game which uses the lessons we've learned from developing Xenonauts (although it won't be quite the same thing). Sounds really exciting and I'm interested to see what you come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutger Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Fixing bugs and polishing existing content would be the best thing for Xenonauts. There are still bugs, missing animation and LOS problems. I still look forward to the mentioned by Chris V1.1 patch but then again, I wouldn't expect anything radical. Destructible UFO walls, or more believable looking Crash Sites, since except for number of Aliens there is little difference between crashed and landed UFO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafireliv Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) The game has an 80 Metacritic score - I'm not sure I'd describe it should be described as "raw" or "rough". Unfinished games tend to get savaged by critics for being unfinished.In any case, most of the fundamental issues of the game are design issues and would not be fixed by adding more content. You'd end up with a longer game rather than a better one, and Xenonauts is plenty long / big already. My fault for not being clear enough. I don`t mean making it longer, it has plenty of that which was new Xcom`s main fault (too short), I mean just adding more immersion aspects. For instance, more animation on the different departments rather than static, still pictures, at least for the main guys, scientist, engineer, etc with background noise. More added sound effects and speech, especially on ground battles, and for troops. Also, added background sounds like police sirens especially for terror missions like in the new Xcom, just that was very immersive. Various levels of animation\speech for hurt soldiers. A little more work on the map; give it say a radar type interface when each new signature turns up, with anonymous comms of various government organisations. For instance, when military or civilian aircraft are shot down, a small soundbyte is heard of `mayday` with strange plasma sounds in the background. We don`t see it happening, but we hear the comms. Sound makes for great immersion, you got that right for the UFO-Jet takedowns, though it makes me thirst for more! Anyway, I know this stuff is a lot of work and easier for me to say probably, than do. All I`m saying is there are a lot of little things that can be done to `polish` or `round` out the edges of your excellent game. thanks for listening. p.s. What is this obsession Devs have with Metacritic? I never go on that. Edited July 19, 2014 by Seafireliv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusherven Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Part of the problem, Seafireliv, is that Goldhawk is a new indie studio with an unknown reputation. You already see a lot of people saying that it's expensive for an indie production. It's possible they could have hired someone else to add the kind of flavor you're talking about, but it would have inevitably added to the cost of the game. I actually like the 2d graphics as well, fwiw. Too bad it's so labor-intensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalDragon Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 The game has an 80 Metacritic score - I'm not sure I'd describe it should be described as "raw" or "rough". Unfinished games tend to get savaged by critics for being unfinished.In any case, most of the fundamental issues of the game are design issues and would not be fixed by adding more content. You'd end up with a longer game rather than a better one, and Xenonauts is plenty long / big already. Im pretty sure that this game could have a 93 or 95 if some things have taken in consideration. ^^ The issue o is content, the game has enough of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothername Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Grabbed it when it finally hit gog & love it. Aside from bugs (which thankfully get fixed with constant updates) I love the game as it is. A better new X-com than the official new X-com IMO. Chris, any idea when you are going to reveal this new project? "Aquanauts - Threat from below the waters" ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentelin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 "Aquanauts - Threat from below the waters" ! Nope nothing like that.You can see about potential projects here http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/11573-Upcoming-Projects-%28Very%29-Basic-Details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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