Production bottlenecks

[momerathe]

How many workshops/engineers do you have?

I've got two fully-staffed workshops, and I can't remotely keep up. I haven't even finished equipping my B team with lasers - let alone armour - and I've just unlocked plasma weapons. I've just seen my first Landing ship so I want to get some Corsairs up and running, but I don't want to put soldier upgrades on hold..

I'm considering opening a third workshop in my US base and dedicating it to aircraft production, but those salary and maintenance costs add up..

[Chthon]

How many workshops/engineers do you have?

I've got two fully-staffed workshops, and I can't remotely keep up. I haven't even finished equipping my B team with lasers - let alone armour - and I've just unlocked plasma weapons. I've just seen my first Landing ship so I want to get some Corsairs up and running, but I don't want to put soldier upgrades on hold..

I'm considering opening a third workshop in my US base and dedicating it to aircraft production, but those salary and maintenance costs add up..

For me it all depends on how much funding I can afford to give them. Sometimes you have to decide between that new shiny jet, or another piece of equipment for the soldiers survival.

I'm not above splitting my crews as well. Nothing says you can't work on two things at once, research or construction wise.

[ViniJones]

Dont hesitate to add workshops/labs, if your income allows it, 2 is not remotely enough...

And yea, its as much about your production priorities as anything.

[kabill]

Supplying more than one squad's worth of gear is very hard. I usually play with two workshops running for most of the game but only build enough equipment for ~10 soldiers since I never bother with a second assault team. So you'll need more than two if you want to keep everyone up-to-date with the latest stuff.

[Chthon]

Supplying more than one squad's worth of gear is very hard. I usually play with two workshops running for most of the game but only build enough equipment for ~10 soldiers since I never bother with a second assault team. So you'll need more than two if you want to keep everyone up-to-date with the latest stuff.

I'm not afraid to give "hand-me-down" equipment to a second squad who's job is to deal with the smaller UFOs who are guaranteed to have fewer aliens. This squad is where I usually train up all of my private-sergeants so replacements for my A-Team aren't 100% raw recruits. In my experience the aliens you find there also are usually easier to kill varieties as well.

[ViniJones]

I'm not afraid to give "hand-me-down" equipment to a second squad who's job is to deal with the smaller UFOs who are guaranteed to have fewer aliens. This squad is where I usually train up all of my private-sergeants so replacements for my A-Team aren't 100% raw recruits. In my experience the aliens you find there also are usually easier to kill varieties as well.

Very much so.

[momerathe]

My A-team/B-team is more of a geographical split. I try to assault as many UFOs as possible per wave, 3-4 if I can manage it, and it take so long flying over the Atlantic.

[Chthon]

My A-team/B-team is more of a geographical split. I try to assault as many UFOs as possible per wave, 3-4 if I can manage it, and it take so long flying over the Atlantic.

I'd love to be in a position where I can afford two A-teams. Unfortunately that has yet to come to pass, and wearing wolf armor + carrying weapon is more than some starting soldiers can manage, before you start accounting for ammo as well. Hence why I have a B-Team for training purposes first.

I wouldn't mind a base gym where soldiers who aren't injured can go for Str, HP, Acc, and TU training in their downtime, even if gains were capped at an arbitrary max of 60-65. Str could be explained by weights, HP by staying fit, Acc by a firing range, and TUs by cardio. Perhaps even Reflexes from sports, though fitting a sports gym into a subterranean secret base might be going a little far.

[ViniJones]

Something like that was in the apocalypse, its a good idea, but since the game doesnt really support the choice of more than one dropship. (ie youre just fine with one, especially with loading)

[Chthon]

Someone mentioned that it was in the original X-Com as well, though I don't recall there being a base structure for it.

Anyways, the balance to it is that you of course are paying their salaries rather than just hiring them whenever you need a replacement.

[momerathe]

I'd love to be in a position where I can afford two A-teams. Unfortunately that has yet to come to pass, and wearing wolf armor + carrying weapon is more than some starting soldiers can manage, before you start accounting for ammo as well.

Only Assaults get wolf armour - mainly due to production delays, admittedly - but as they're at the sharp end it seems to work well enough. They also tend to be my best guys.

I ended up with a reasonably deep roster because of rotating out injured soldiers; I think I only had to recruit three new soldiers when I set up my B-team and one of them went to the A-team regardless. (I did subsequently recruit 4 more so I had a bit of a bench at each base).

I move my troops in fireteams of ~3, so I can carry the odd rookie here or there.

Perhaps even Reflexes from sports, though fitting a sports gym into a subterranean secret base might be going a little far.

CQB training, I'd say. Might need a 2x1 facility, but you should be able to set up a mock building in the same sized space as a hangar.

[FireStorm1010]

I have 2 workshops , for some time in begning had 1.And yes im falling behind in production , but i just cant afford any more.I need to build shitload of corsairs,+ some armors and laser weapons as i just build shrike and can cram more troops. Also started loosing my tanks quite often so it cuts into production delays too.

[Chthon]

I have 2 workshops , for some time in begning had 1.And yes im falling behind in production , but i just cant afford any more.I need to build shitload of corsairs,+ some armors and laser weapons as i just build shrike and can cram more troops. Also started loosing my tanks quite often so it cuts into production delays too.

I didn't even use any tanks myself. I hear they're nice, but I also hear they are 3x3 which makes maneuvering them difficult, especially in alien bases and UFOs. If I take one into the upper floors of a UFO, I'm not sure I need them at all.

On the other hand, upgrades to heavy weapons automatically upgrade their weaponry without needing to construct specialized equipment. I suppose they could be useful in places.

[FireStorm1010]

I didn't even use any tanks myself. I hear they're nice, but I also hear they are 3x3 which makes maneuvering them difficult, especially in alien bases and UFOs. If I take one into the upper floors of a UFO, I'm not sure I need them at all.

On the other hand, upgrades to heavy weapons automatically upgrade their weaponry without needing to construct specialized equipment. I suppose they could be useful in places.

Yea usless in alien bases, and in most ufos. Even so they were the mainstay of my strategy till now. Atm im starting loosing them to often and rethinking their usage, becomes expensive in cash and production times.

[Chthon]

Yea usless in alien bases, and in most ufos. Even so they were the mainstay of my strategy till now. Atm im starting loosing them to often and rethinking their usage, becomes expensive in cash and production times.

Wait. I thought that like planes, they were recoverable upon destruction and just had downtime. They are permanently destroyed and need to be rebuilt? No thanks! Too expensive for me then.

[ViniJones]

Theyre nice looking, thats about it. They take up more space than the actual soldiers and die just as fast. Theyre fun to play around with but as far a being actually useful, not unless you go all night mission or some other fetish.

[momerathe]

I've always had something else I wanted to research - and even more so, something else I wanted to manufacture instead.

[FireStorm1010]

Theyre nice looking, thats about it. They take up more space than the actual soldiers and die just as fast. Theyre fun to play around with but as far a being actually useful, not unless you go all night mission or some other fetish.

I disagree , until recently my tottal tank losses resulted to 1, they were much more resistant then soldiers .Recently seems there are more aliens with more powerful wepaons and i started taking tank losses. Also for example the rapid pulse cannon of a scimitar (laser era tank) is a powerfull weapon, it packs a powerful explosive punch in wide range, obliterating cover (much much better then rpgs with alenium rockets)

[ViniJones]

I found that the hunter can at best withstand 3 shots from a plasma rifle from the front. As for the Scimitar, I lost one to a single burst from heavy plasma. I didnt bother building Hyperion. Yes you can have low loses with tanks, but certainly not because of their(nonexistent) armor, if I wanna hide from enemy fire, I might as well go with soldiers.

Theyre just too pricey, hard to build, unmanouverable and squishy to contend with plain troops.

The explosions often obliterate the target and anything of worth it has along with the cover. In this case, I find the smaller aoe of rockets much better... It makes avoiding unnecessary damage easier.

I know there aint many more arguments than in my last post. I dont deny theyre fun, theyre just not effective.

Edited July 7, 2014 by ViniJones
typos n shit

[momerathe]

In the old game, they found their niche for me as time-savers: they could sweep the far corners of the map much quicker than a foot-slogging soldier (particularly given my TU-saving habits).

But then, you were a lot less resource constrained in that game, and transports were higher capacity.

[JabbatheConqueror]

Vehicles are very useful for base assault or missions with reapers and terror missions. They provide much greater firepower than two fresh rifleman rookies, but rookies are cheaper.

[Bansheedragon]

If you are struggling now at laser/plasma weapons and wolf armor, you will have an even harder time when you get to sentinel and above armor and mag weapons.

I'm running with 4 workshops and 60 engineers, and it still takes around 20 days to produce enough sentinel armors and mag weapons for a single team of 12 troops.

If you can afford it I would suggest getting at least a 3rd workshop to help with the production.

[ViniJones]

Vehicles are very useful for base assault or missions with reapers and terror missions. They provide much greater firepower than two fresh rifleman rookies, but rookies are cheaper.

Interesting idea, I need to try it in a city, the firepower could actually be useful there. Even though killing the civies lowers the funding bonus X_X.

Im not sure about bases though, seeing as they could easily block your path to the enemy command center. If you mean youre defending with them... I prefer shooting the UFO down, rather than spend hundreds of thousands on tanks there and have them 2 shotted by enemy gunners.

Oh and fu for using the 2 rifleman rookies as a comparison, use 2 Lt. Heavy Gunners.

Edited July 7, 2014 by ViniJones

[quiescat]

for what ever its worth once you do a alien base if you recover the prop needed for base research it upgrades your labs and workshops which cuts the production times about in half. so the mag weapons that would take you 40 or so days gets cut back to 20(with 30 engineers)

[Kiel]

For me having a tank is a must. Yeah, I lost 5 Hunters before I got a Scimitar but good Lord, how much potential damage each of them tanked! Thousands of damage! No soldier could ever survived that much! Hunters can easily withstand anything but heavy plasma, battle rifle and plasma cannon.

As for the Scimitar - I love it. It can survive direct hit of a plasma cannon (took 40 hp only) and obliterate any target he hits (plasma cannon is so much awesome; especially when it deals 215 damage). I'm building the second one for my team-B.

As for the teams - I have two fully equipped squads of 10 and 8 men respectively. Team A - all colonels, Team B - half of them have commander rank. All have Wolf/Buzzard armours and plasma weapons. I have 30 scientists and 30 engineers working day and night. I feel like building two more workshops at my second base.

Oh and don't forget about the base upgrade! It gives +50% to research/production. You need alien base for that. That's what I'm going for right after my smart heads deal with MAG weaponry.

Sure I've paid the price of losing aerial superiority. To me terror sites and alien base missions aren't something extraordinary as I'm not able to take down all the UFOs. 4 bases, each has 2 Foxtrots, 1 Corsair and 1 Condor as a backup. The game is throwing carriers and now even battleships at me. Carriers are no problem but battleships are

Oh and I recently got my first Shrike. The second one is in progress.

Funds ain't an issue as one carrier/terror site gives 150~170k (air-striking the carrier gives ridiculous 60k).

Edited July 8, 2014 by Kiel