omglaserspewpew Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Xenos nading all your soldiers into oblivion is the best thing that happens in the whole game. I know I sound like a broken record now, but it's the only instance (save mind control) that actually forces you to adapt your strategy. Something like this should happen every game month, not once or twice in the whole campaign. Now all we need are grenade launchers ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Excuse me? Aliens use grenades far more often than once a month. By the way the very reason for all the QQ is that you cant adapt to psionics, or this nading, though Im more and more convinced theres a sound explanation for it, that doesnt include the AI cheating. Soldiers with a lot of str can throw nades pretty far I dont see a need for a grenade launcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewThePhenom Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Xenos nading all your soldiers into oblivion is the best thing that happens in the whole game. I know I sound like a broken record now, but it's the only instance (save mind control) that actually forces you to adapt your strategy. Something like this should happen every game month, not once or twice in the whole campaign.Now all we need are grenade launchers ... Install Magnum-nauts, enjoy your grenade launchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omglaserspewpew Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Excuse me? Aliens use grenades far more often than once a month.By the way the very reason for all the QQ is that you cant adapt to psionics, or this nading, though Im more and more convinced theres a sound explanation for it, that doesnt include the AI cheating. Soldiers with a lot of str can throw nades pretty far I dont see a need for a grenade launcher. 1. I meant a completely new tactics adaptation every month. Grenades are one and only one instance. 2. Yes, you can adapt to grenade attacks: spread formation, expendable baits, aggressive and abundant use of explosives to destroy interior and obstacles. 3. Can they throw it as far as sniper rifle can reach? Because that's what I want to see. Install Magnum-nauts, enjoy your grenade launchers. Grenade Launchers alone are not enough, because with them, the whole "combat ecosystem" changes profoundly. Suddenly you have death raining on you from beyond the line of sight, with little cover. That's why GH didn't include them - because in the current system, they'd be grossly imbalanced. You need equipment and game mechanics to counter them. Such as energy shields and a better developed recon and camouflage system. I might elaborate on that when I'll have more time, if you're interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 3. Can they throw it as far as sniper rifle can reach? Because that's what I want to see.That's silly. They'd be wildly OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omglaserspewpew Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Next time read the post to the end, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Youre missing the point, this thread is about the grenades you cant see coming, the ones that you can NOT adapt to. Spreading out your soldiers may save all but the one getting naded. It is more about whining about bugs than actual game features being missing. In your nice list, you failed to address the adaptation to psionics, which you named among the "forced change of strategy". How DO you adapt your strategy? Not nearly as far as a precision rifle can reach, but you certainly dont need that, the maps arent big enough. Its nice that you want to see it, but what you want... energy shields, scanners, camouflage, mortars... thats a whole new level and its not really relevant to the original post. Not that this(or any other of my posts) are, but you know, youre straying into other dimensions here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omglaserspewpew Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I know and I apologize for the off-topic. The same is true for psionics, though. I agree they're not successfully balanced at the moment. Regarding grenades, I could reliably win door-breaching battles with my aforementioned strategy, only losing up to two expendable meat-shield soldiers. I did carry two rocket launchers and a shitload of grenades and C4 with me, though. And yes, I exploded whole alien structures (bases and UFOS) into oblivion. Still better than boring linear pew pew that we'd have without grenade attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlyphGryph Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) I have never had the aliens grenade in impossible situations, myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if they use/abuse the map bugs I've encountered that let me see and grenade into places that would be impossible to reach. Which is admittedly frustrating and super annoying, but isn't a problem with the AI. There are a few other instances of "cheating" on the part of the AI I've seen that also honestly look like bugs, though they weren't really important enough to note the details of since overall it works very well. Except their magical telekinetic door control behaviour, which I'm pretty sure is explicitly cheating, though I don't think they have intentional control over it since they only seem to benefit when it happens accidentally, and it could be justified in-lore as being automatic doors. Actually, I should probably start a thread about that... Edited July 7, 2014 by GlyphGryph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Having a door open before you touch it is not exactly magical, unless my local supermarket has employed a magician just to allow us entry Even my cat has a door that opens only for him but bars entry to other cats using a fairly simple mechanism. I can easily had wave away the interplanetary space faring race having something at least as complicated. Psionics are difficult to adapt to in this game, mainly due to the current balance. Personally I like having psi power range reduced to make them easier to resist unless up close. Leading with your high morale troops is rewarded more and if they start to suffer then having a vehicle as backup to scout ahead is useful, although with the psionic aliens generally being commanders and sat inside the UFO the vehicle can quickly find no way through. I also am interested to try out the new psionic resistance flag from the community edition and see what impact that has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlyphGryph Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 You know what would actually be pretty awesome? If any unit in the "control room" could open/close doors at will. Take THAT Xenonauts! Mwahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 My 2 cents, just to make sure you guys know I still read these threads as well! The AI is set to really "punish" players for certain tactics, aka, grouping your units together. Or better said; it just immediately determines its better to 'nade everyone to hell than to waste time shooting at individual units. So my advice is the same as every sound commander; don't group your units together! As for the AI cheating; it's not my intent to have the AI cheat, but lord knows multiple bugs have snuck through in the past. If you guys manage to get me saves which illustrate the behavior; I promise I'll still look into them and make sure that any resulting patches will roll out with the community edition. The magic door opening does seem like a bug; from a code perspective it really shouldn't be able to do that unless the unit is adjacent to the door. Maybe there's some problem going on with LOS not updating for players until after a AI unit moved away from the door. Again, give me a save; and I'll look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) You know what would actually be pretty awesome? If any unit in the "control room" could open/close doors at will. Take THAT Xenonauts! Mwahaha! If they could lock them too,... open pits and auto turrets... oh boy shit would get real. Edited July 7, 2014 by ViniJones added a quote so I now sound only partially stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlyphGryph Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, I play on IronMan, so aside from the trivially reproducible bugs (like the cruiser layouts that allow you to see people in the command room from the top left wing room, and which you guys presumably know about and might well have already fixed in the last patch) it's kind of difficult. Is there a way to set it to, like, "autosave every turn and shove the save files somewhere" for later reference? Then whenever I encounter something I could just grab the appropriate save from there. Edited July 7, 2014 by GlyphGryph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthon Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 My 2 cents, just to make sure you guys know I still read these threads as well!The AI is set to really "punish" players for certain tactics, aka, grouping your units together. Or better said; it just immediately determines its better to 'nade everyone to hell than to waste time shooting at individual units. So my advice is the same as every sound commander; don't group your units together! As for the AI cheating; it's not my intent to have the AI cheat, but lord knows multiple bugs have snuck through in the past. If you guys manage to get me saves which illustrate the behavior; I promise I'll still look into them and make sure that any resulting patches will roll out with the community edition. The magic door opening does seem like a bug; from a code perspective it really shouldn't be able to do that unless the unit is adjacent to the door. Maybe there's some problem going on with LOS not updating for players until after a AI unit moved away from the door. Again, give me a save; and I'll look into it. As I said, providing a save where they do it is quite difficult as you find out after the fact. The best I can do is a video clip of it happening, so you can determine if there is a map problem in that area. As for the magic door glitch, I have encountered something else that may be related. Normally when units are in LoS you see them running around, however one time the door opened and there wasn't anything there right away. A few seconds later an enemy suddenly appeared 4 tiles from one of my units, who luckily had a shotgun. Perhaps it's sometimes failing to render some units in LoS when they open a door until they stop? If so it's very very rare as I've seen it only once. Not sure how it triggers. Once again, hard to catch before a turn with a save, but perhaps a video highlight of it happening would at least prove it's existence. If it is as I believe, these magic doors opening actually have an alien opening them, but they just aren't rendering for some reason and continue to be hidden until they stop their move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Ragulin Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Apologies for the slight off-topic, but I saw this: My 2 cents, just to make sure you guys know I still read these threads as well!The AI is set to really "punish" players for certain tactics, aka, grouping your units together. Or better said; it just immediately determines its better to 'nade everyone to hell than to waste time shooting at individual units. So my advice is the same as every sound commander; don't group your units together! As for the AI cheating; it's not my intent to have the AI cheat, but lord knows multiple bugs have snuck through in the past. If you guys manage to get me saves which illustrate the behavior; I promise I'll still look into them and make sure that any resulting patches will roll out with the community edition. The magic door opening does seem like a bug; from a code perspective it really shouldn't be able to do that unless the unit is adjacent to the door. Maybe there's some problem going on with LOS not updating for players until after a AI unit moved away from the door. Again, give me a save; and I'll look into it. And have something for GJ to read. It's not a save, but it's a good description of the kind of alien behaviour that could lead to accusations of a mischievous AI. This is about the dead soldier (soldier 1) curled up between the bales and the hedge. The lowermost dead Sebillian (Seb 1) had been dead for a number of turns, and had only faced south and south-west (therefore never seeing soldier 1). I ended a turn with the three guys set up in firing position to nail anything coming through the gap. The hedge was intact. Seb 2 (the uppermost Seb) appears in the tile where he now lays dead, and was facing south-west. Guy crouching behind hay (selected soldier in picture, soldier 2) reaction fires with his lmg, missing Seb 2 and destroying the hedge prop. Seb 2 immediately spins around to face east (out of his 90 degree LOS angle), and kills soldier 1. Seb 2 then spins back round to face south, and crouches down. On my turn, soldier 2 fires and kills Seb 2. Seb 2 had no way of knowing where soldier 1 was. Seb 1 hadn't seen him - the only directions he looked in were south and south-west, and soldier 1 was therefore out of his LOS. Seb 2 could not have seen him either - he was only looking south-west, and then as soon as the hedge was destroyed, he span round to look east. There shouldn't have been any reason for him to do this - soldier 1 was out of his LOS. Seb 2 was facing south-west and should not have known that soldier 1 was there - but he did know, as soon as the cover was removed, despite him not facing that way. Can this be explained? Edited July 9, 2014 by Mikhail Ragulin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Can this be explained? Your forum join date is Apr 2014, so you've probably never seen this, but there were times when aliens (and civilians) did explicitly look around. And it looked incredibly silly, with them spinning in place. Presumably the AI doesn't explicitly look around anymore and just sees what's possible to see. If you want a "logical" explanation, then the Seb of course turned around to look at the destroyed hedge and noticed Soldier 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Id rather have aliens looking silly spining around using up the aps, than have them see everything they "could" see for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Possibly, but presumably the majority of us would rather want a good game than a game that tries to be perfect and fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViniJones Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Possibly, but presumably the majority of us would rather want a good game than a game that tries to be perfect and fails. That is a nice statement. Im not sure how to put this... you say that a game thats not fair, but looks "not silly" is a good one. While a game that is fair and looks silly, is trying to be perfect and fails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Can this be explained?Yes, the new reaction fire system causes anyone that is wounded to automatically face the direction the shot(s) came from. You're soldiers will do that too. You can test this by shooting one of your own men in the side or back. This is the only way that decent reaction fire can be done. Otherwise, your men and the aliens would just sit there facing the wrong way letting the enemy pump rounds into to them over potentially multiple turns which would be silly. As mentioned above the aliens used to do a little pirouette every turn to check LOS (since no one seems to have a functional neck in this game.) You probably do that with your men collectively, but the aliens did it individually. That looked really dumb. Edited July 9, 2014 by StellarRat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The magic door opening does seem like a bug; from a code perspective it really shouldn't be able to do that unless the unit is adjacent to the door. Maybe there's some problem going on with LOS not updating for players until after a AI unit moved away from the door. Again, give me a save; and I'll look into it. This will probably get buried in other posts, but just in case you see it: I'm not sure it's a LoS issue. When I first spotted it, I was using the GC editor and had the map revealed, so I could see what was going on and they were definitely opening doors from a distance (e.g. a friendly AI unit who ran near some doors and magically made them open without being adjacent to them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Ragulin Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Yes, the new reaction fire system causes anyone that is wounded to automatically face the direction the shot(s) came from. You're soldiers will do that too. You can test this by shooting one of your own men in the side or back. This is the only way that decent reaction fire can be done. Otherwise, your men and the aliens would just sit there facing the wrong way letting the enemy pump rounds into to them over potentially multiple turns which would be silly. As mentioned above the aliens used to do a little pirouette every turn to check LOS (since no one seems to have a functional neck in this game.) You probably do that with your men collectively, but the aliens did it individually. That looked really dumb. Seb 2 (the uppermost Seb) appears in the tile where he now lays dead, and was facing south-west. Guy crouching behind hay (selected soldier in picture, soldier 2) reaction fires with his lmg, missing Seb 2 and destroying the hedge prop. The Seb wasn't wounded/hit by the reaction fire, and soldier one didn't fire anyway - it was soldier 2. What you explain is correct (I am aware that a shootee spins to face the shooter) - if it was soldier 1 firing and hitting the Seb; but it was soldier 2 firing and missing. Soldier 1 never fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The Seb wasn't wounded/hit by the reaction fire, and soldier one didn't fire anyway - it was soldier 2.What you explain is correct (I am aware that a shootee spins to face the shooter) - if it was soldier 1 firing and hitting the Seb; but it was soldier 2 firing and missing. Soldier 1 never fired. Did the alien spot the other guy when he spun around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Ragulin Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Did the alien spot the other guy when he spun around? Yes. Perhaps it's not clear in my post - there was no reason for the Seb to turn to face east. The Seb was facing south-west, and took reaction fire from the south (which missed). At this point, he spun east (for the only time) and and killed soldier 1 (and then returned to face south) - the Seb had no way of knowing that soldier 1 was there. If the Seb was facing south-east, and under fire from the south...why would he suddenly turn east? It's not for pathing reasons, as he can't walk east (or south-east, or south) from that tile, and soldier 1 is not is his line of sight. Edited July 9, 2014 by Mikhail Ragulin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.