cleft_asunder Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Edit title: I'm not sure how many layers XCOM and TFTD had, but the points still stands: Isn't anyone talking about this? It doesn't seem Xenonauts was programmed to have "layers" between floor heights for soldiers to walk on. This means that you cannot have a soldier in between floor levels, such as in the middle of stairs. If you want to climb stairs that take you from level 1 to 2, you can't position a soldier anywhere in between the next floor or bottom of the stairs. When you see a soldier on the bottom steps, he's still on level 1, he hasn't climbed even a bit! (or does he?) If you want to move one square forward up the stairs to go higher, you can't because the movement doesn't exist due to no programming of additional walkable layers in between floors. You can only climb all the way to the 2nd floor. If you attempt to hit spacebar when a soldier is moving up the stairs to stop him he won't stop because the programming isn't there. Show me a picture of a soldier in the middle of stairs because I bet you can't. Why is this important? Because it's very clumbsy tactically without it. XCOM:UFOD and TFTD both had them in the 90's and worked perfectly well. This also makes me wonder if you can throw grenades in between floor levels, like in the middle of stairs. (shrug) In between floor levels (like 1 and 2, or 2 and 3) there were some 2 or more layers --height levels essentionally. I recall TFTD treating each part of the stairs as a seperate layer. That's how it should be. Edited June 27, 2014 by cleft_asunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Could be wrong, but I think it might be an engine limitation. I might be getting confused with something else, but I think the fact that there are multiple levels at all was something of a miracle. (Not that I disagree with you, it would be great if there was something like that. My point is only that it's something that GH almost certainly would have added if it were possible and not especially difficult). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleft_asunder Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Darn. I doubt it's even possible to mod it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Pancakes Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 It runs on the engine that powered Diner Dash so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleft_asunder Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Oh my. Couldn't they have copied the XCOM or TFTD engine and reworked it? It's open source, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Z Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 It wasn't at the time, at least. GHI got bamboozled pretty hard by their first lead programmer and are still suffering for it to this day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentsfield Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 It wasn't at the time, at least. GHI got bamboozled pretty hard by their first lead programmer and are still suffering for it to this day. As fantastic as this game is and as much as I'm enjoying it, it almost churns my stomach to think about what it could've been, and how we'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 You hire a person who you believe to be a professional - someone who is competent in their field. If you don't have the same degree of skill as the person you're hiring, you have to take on trust what that person says. You can check references, examine portfolios, query samples but at the end of the day if the person looks right, then you have to take it on board that they wil be right for the job. It's only after the ink on the paper has dried and they start making mistakes you realise then what a booby you've just hired, and unless you're careful in the wording of the contract, you get saddled with someone you have to put up with because employment law prevents you from firing his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Everything related to the vertical aspects of the game is a huge cludge. This is why you have soldiers and aliens that can walk on destroyed second-floor tiles, this is why line of fire from the ground to a roof is so odd, this is why a human-height wall or a car still blocks the shot of somebody shooting from the 4th floor. A really, really unfortunate side effect of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleft_asunder Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 As fantastic as this game is and as much as I'm enjoying it, it almost churns my stomach to think about what it could've been, and how we'll never know. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleft_asunder Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 It wasn't at the time, at least. GHI got bamboozled pretty hard by their first lead programmer and are still suffering for it to this day. Typical narcissist from the sound of it. They set you up for a fall because they get off by making others suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Well lack of competence doesn't necessarily define a narcissist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Not necessarily. I do not know who the guy was, but he may have simply been somewhat of a beginner - programmers at that stage tend to easily overestimate themselves and that, coupled with a more general lack of experience, leads to making life painful for anybody working on the projects in the future. I've certainly been that programmer myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 This is why you have soldiers and aliens that can walk on destroyed second-floor tiles. Do you know if solving that issue is even remotely plausible? If the modular UFO project goes anywhere, that would be some very tasty icing on the cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Do you know if solving that issue is even remotely plausible? If the modular UFO project goes anywhere, that would be some very tasty icing on the cake. Regardless you can still utilize roof teleporters, I find them pretty much plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 That depends. Making destroyed upper-floor tiles impassable should be feasible, though it could lead to locations where there is no way out if a couple tiles get destroyed (think catwalks). Something like units falling to the level below if they walk trough these holes is not easily possible, and maybe not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 That depends. Making destroyed upper-floor tiles impassable should be feasible, though it could lead to locations where there is no way out if a couple tiles get destroyed (think catwalks). Something like units falling to the level below if they walk trough these holes is not easily possible, and maybe not at all. Hmm, didn't think about the getting stuck issue. I guess you could set it so that any floor which is critical in some way to movement is indestructible (that really needs doing in the absence of a better fix, anyway). But then you've got lack of consistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 It'd also be extremely hard to hand-paint ground that's not completely flat unless you're using a 3D engine (which we are not). We couldn't get away with the low-quality repeating textures that the original game used these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Something like units falling to the level below if they walk trough these holes is not easily possible, and maybe not at all. Is there a way to employ the teleporter mechanic in such occasions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerHead Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Just wait till community fixes all of it (if ever, of course). Xenonauts can be re-written into a better engine, using all the art assets of the original. Just like OpenXCOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Is there a way to employ the teleporter mechanic in such occasions? That was also my thought. Some kind of teleporter that dynamically appears in destroyed floor tiles. I have not seen enough of the code to know if it is possible, but it might be a way of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinHann Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 That was also my thought. Some kind of teleporter that dynamically appears in destroyed floor tiles. I have not seen enough of the code to know if it is possible, but it might be a way of doing it. Great minds think alike... Too bad for you I'm stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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