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Modular UFOs - Discussion and Suggestions


kabill

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I'm liking them, particularly the design for the Landing Ship and the Scout 2.0. However, I think there's a danger everything is just going to end up being an oval at this rate. I think your original Scout design was OK too, because it had quite an interesting shape.

As an aside, I notice that the original game had diagonal walls in a way that Xenonauts does not. They're probably not impossible to add though...in fact you could probably just set them to be a full-tile blocking object with a diagonal wall image.

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I'm liking them, particularly the design for the Landing Ship and the Scout 2.0. However, I think there's a danger everything is just going to end up being an oval at this rate. I think your original Scout design was OK too, because it had quite an interesting shape.

Yeah, that's why I backed off from doing the Corvette as the next step because I was at risk of making it just a slightly larger version of the others but otherwise the same shape and design. Going to try something a bit different with that then (no idea what yet, though), and the same with the Cruiser (I don't know if it was intended, but the Cruiser design felt to me like a homage to the OG terror ships and - personally - I'd quite like to keep that influence).

As for diagonal walls: I've been doing these designs under the assumption that diagonal walls would be possible (and a full-tile blocking prop seems fine for this, yes). But I think the designs could be tweaked if this proved to be a problem by squaring them out a bit.

@Ragnarok: That's what I hope's the case, yes!

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I've just added a download to the OP for anyone who fancies doing some playtesting of the Light Scout, Scout and Landing Ship maps.

I've not actually tried them myself yet, but they'll definitely be functional.

I don't recommend actually playing a proper game with them, though, as I've not set the datacores different between landed and non-landed UFOs. Probably best to do a quick battle or some such.

EDIT: Just realised that the Landing Ship won't work properly as I didn't set up the teleporters. Don't have time to fix it right now; will do so later if I have a chance.

Edited by kabill
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Corvette this time...

Without exterior walls:

GCSubmapEditor 2014-06-28 20-11-09-013.jpg

With exterior walls:

GCSubmapEditor 2014-06-28 20-14-23-010.jpg

Managed to get something that looks a bit different with the corvette. At least, it's not just a blob. Again, two entrances in the side, which lead into a central cargo bay. Like the Scout, securing one side of the ship is difficult while also ensuring you're not attacked from the other side (in theory).

Also, I've updated the link in the OP with the Corvette and fixed the landing ship so the teleporter works.

EDIT: Seems like the UFO floor needs setting so it doesn't disappear. It's not a big deal, but I'll include it in future uploads.

GCSubmapEditor 2014-06-28 20-11-09-013.jpg

GCSubmapEditor 2014-06-28 20-14-23-010.jpg

577e7d016bb9e_GCSubmapEditor2014-06-2820

577e7d0171c39_GCSubmapEditor2014-06-2820

Edited by kabill
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Okay, here is my first take on a Corvette. You will notice the SW and NE rooms are mirrored, also you can only reach the NW room from the SE one. You must effectively use both entry points to clear the entire UFO. There are also a couple strategic walkarounds - neglecting them should put your team in a dire situation.

test.jpg

What do you think?

test.jpg

test.jpg.5fcefa89aef882861829a05846126de

Edited by KevinHann
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I had a shameful surrender after numerous attempts to place a datacore on a single tile rather than across four of them. Let this Light Scout image be the eternal proof of my incompetence:

lscout.jpg

The general idea was to make it relatively hard to attack through the front door, although there are two side doors allowing you to overwhelm whatever aliens are in the back room and then in turn overwhelm the rest by assaulting from two entry points simultaneously.

lscout.jpg

lscout.jpg.d217ee64c4b5e716c6b59094efbd3

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Did I kill the thread? :(

Anyway, here is a more conventional take at Corvette, looks simple at first glance but should be pretty hard to go through it unscathed:

corvette2.jpg

The corner rooms are exact mirrors if you are wondering what's cut off thanks to my fine resolution.

corvette2.jpg

corvette2.jpg.b3000ac5d2bb9d2ecef3ee3fff

Edited by KevinHann
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I was collecting my thoughts, but some initial impressions:

Not sure I like the Corvette. To go back to the point of form-over function, it feels more like a death-trap maze than a functional spacecraft. I think it's the long, single-tile corridors which are for me the main problem: they don't seem to have any reason to exist other than as coverless death-traps. Also, some of the prop placement is a bit untidy for my preferences, for example around the engine room.

That said, there's some bits I do like. I'm actually quite partial to the central corridor and with some tidying up it could be a good idea. I also think the side doors leading into the rooms rather than a central cargo bay could work (although in my own design I was trying to avoid that a bit so it wouldn't end up being a larger version of the Scout).

In terms of the light scout, I think it's serviceable but I'm tempted to say that an interior partition is a bad idea. Light Scouts can only hold up to two aliens inside the UFO in any case, so providing the opportunity to pick them off individually probably isn't a good plan (as much as I like the idea of partitions in principle). But I do like the navigation room in the front.

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I was collecting my thoughts, but some initial impressions:

Not sure I like the Corvette. To go back to the point of form-over function, it feels more like a death-trap maze than a functional spacecraft. I think it's the long, single-tile corridors which are for me the main problem: they don't seem to have any reason to exist other than as coverless death-traps. Also, some of the prop placement is a bit untidy for my preferences, for example around the engine room.

Due to the lack of more varied ufo props currently, I had to do with what was available so I understand why it might feel that way. I was trying to recreate something in the spirit of "they know you are coming and have set up a perimeter for you" - you aren't assaulting a functional spacecraft, you are assaulting a barricared last stand of desperate enemies who don't necessarily think like we do.

The long single-tile corridors are actually supposed to give you an advantage in attacking an otherwise very hard for frontal assault position. They are there to ease you, not to serve as a death trap. I was thinking in the lines of maintenance tunnels when adding them. I actually think the concept of service tunnels (so nicely employed in movies like the Alien franchise) are not only not counter-intuitive, but desperately lacking in Xenonauts. Perhaps it's a personal preference though?

Of course it doesn't mean I've translated those ideas on the submap well enough at all.

Edited by KevinHann
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Alright, let's try something different for Corvette 2.1:

corvette2.1.jpg

You will notice it is very hard to clear the UFO in the conventional way without constantly exposing your soldiers to crossfire from multiple possible directions. On the other hand using the vents should give you tremendous flexibility and rooms can be attacked one by one without any risk of being flanked. I've also picked more appropriate props for visual appeal.

For comparison you can look at Corvette 2.0 which is the same design without the vents:

corvette2.jpg

What do you think?

corvette2.jpg

corvette2.1.jpg

corvette2.jpg.8531037a133c6bbf6c26484af6

corvette2.1.jpg.4635f89f16bf35193a17a046

Edited by KevinHann
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I have also revisited my initial Corvette design - let's call this Corvette 1.1. Hopefully this will address kabill's concerns:

test1.1.jpg

I've made the maintenance tunnels look the way they are supposed to, and there is no risk to meet aliens in there - they now give your soldiers a much better position to assault the respective rooms if you choose to use them. Hopefully they no longer seem like self-purposed death traps that have no function in a spacecraft. I have also tidied up the corridor and engine room. The final change is I've cut the SE room from the bottom entry, it is now connected to the NE room via a teleporter. The purpose was to give both entry points an equal portion of the UFO.

Here is the original Corvette 1.0 for comparison:

test.jpg

What do you think?

test1.1.jpg

test.jpg

test1.1.jpg.6852c910d03638dfab6b147b9b0b

test.jpg.260799a3fa004fd9978cb8871260d15

Edited by KevinHann
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Hey kabil, have you thought about something like this:

UFO_160MAP-L1.JPG

UFO_160MAP-L2.JPG

UFO_160MAP-L3.JPG

level 0 level 1 level 3

All from here:

http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Battleship

Just wanted to say, that the main UFO area does not have to start at ground level. I guess you can find lots of different shapes and split-up base levels. So have different kind of ships in same class (Corvette A, Crovette B and so on).

If not possible or too tough to realize, forget it. Now I will go back to do mapping...

UFO_160MAP-L1.JPG

UFO_160MAP-L2.JPG

UFO_160MAP-L3.JPG

UFO_160MAP-L1.JPG.2953fdb1f2087e7c947297

UFO_160MAP-L2.JPG.489e2a90e4ede2f897345f

UFO_160MAP-L3.JPG.a230ba8d2abe3b55cd7244

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I always loved the tile based UFO designs and although the Xenonauts ones look prettier from outside I would much prefer using OG style ones.

I think I have some graph paper and a pencil somewhere, might have to knock up some designs on my break...

How does the alien ship work with alien spawning?

Do they also have to spawn at ground level only?

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@Kevin: I think I like the 2.x designs more than the 1.x designs. What you've done with 1.1 makes the 'vents' more obviously distinct, but I'm not necessarily sure it would work very well still as I'm not sure the vents would add a great deal (or, possibly, might take too much away by making moving around the UFO too safe?).

@thixotrop: I actually had a look at the old UFO maps before I started for some inspiration. I'd thought about having a ground entrance leading up into the main UFO as an idea, but I think it would work better with later UFOs (maybe the Carrier or indeed Battleship). Also, I'm not sure how the AI works with multiple floors at the moment; from my understanding of the AI variables they tend to be weighted towards the bottom floor so it might not work well. Be worth an experiment though.

@Gauddlike: Basically, you paint "objective" tiles all over the UFO floor which indicates where the aliens spawn (basically, it makes all the tiles in a UFO a possible spawn point for a defensive alien). That allows them to spawn on levels above the ground floor, although whether they choose to stay there is another matter entirely.

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I wanted to try something more traditional in terms of shape, so here is Alternative Corvette:

corvette alt 1.jpg

kabill will certainly notice those damn awful vents again but this time they only provide minor advantage when attacking the side rooms and you'll have to destroy assets (suffering reduced $) to gain more significant tactical advantage assaulting the rear room, which is set up as a tough last stand for the surviving aliens.

Feel free to bash this one to the ground, too.

corvette alt 1.jpg

577e7d044546d_corvettealt1.jpg.33dfc7607

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Personally I would leave at least one tile between the access door and the edge of the submap, just in case something gets randomly placed along that edge and blocks it off.

I know you should be able to breach the walls but aliens shouldn't have to rely on that just to get out from a bad parking space ;)

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Personally I would leave at least one tile between the access door and the edge of the submap, just in case something gets randomly placed along that edge and blocks it off.

I know you should be able to breach the walls but aliens shouldn't have to rely on that just to get out from a bad parking space ;)

Yeah, this is good advice (although, IIRC, the current Scout and Corvette submaps do have the doors up against the edges).

@Kevin: I quite like the alternative corvette layout, although personally I'd suggest giving the rooms a more obvious and clear function than they have at the moment (it's also lacking a navigation room/bridge, which I'd argue is a staple). Also, you'd need to add in a torpedo tube to be consistent with current game balance (the torpedo tubes contain alenium).

EDIT: TD's point about AI is actually really important. I've not been able to do a proper test of any of the designs I've done yet, but I'm concerned about how well the AI will be able to use them as I'm still not finding them mobile enough and therefore I don't know whether they'll take advantage of the flaking opportunities provided by the layouts.

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Cool. Really wish I wasn't busy with work stuff at the moment.

EDIT: For anyone else working on this, it might be worth downloading the link I put in the OP as it contains copies of a number of the alien base props which can be used for UFOs. Might be a time-saver for anyone else wanting to use them.

(Although I don't think I've set all the image paths to the new directory as I was doing them piecemeal.)

Edited by kabill
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