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omglaserspewpew

Oh god, what a waste this game is

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"What a pity." - This is the overwhelming feeling I have after completing the game on normal and half of the game on veteran difficulty settings.

Let's get to the good points first - and there are many.

1. The atmosphere. From the creepy noises to the plasma bolts coming at you from the darkness - this is a true X-COM, down to the core. Splendid.

2. Geoscape and aerial combat in general. When I first saw those blips all over the map signaling potential alien activity, it was one of those rare moments of gaming revelation, when you're grinning like a Chesire cat, because you've just seen a gaming Jesus. Or something. The new geoscape is a work of genius.

3. The looks. I like the clean, sharp tilesets. There's enough of them so it doesn't get boring fast and the generated maps seem to have enough variation. Soldiers look badass in different kinds of armor, aliens aren't too shabby either.

4. Interface. A really clean and optimized UI. Not much to say here, it never got in my way and provided for all my needs. Kudos on that.

5. Basic combat principles. Cover, suppression, morale etc. mechanics are really well done and make fighting enjoyable while at the same time deep enough at the beginning.

6. Enemy AI on veteran. I was a bit underwhelmed with aliens on normal, but veteran is where the game gets going. Nice.

7. Combat shields. Seriously, shields. SHIELDS SHIELDS SHIELDS! Shields.

So, where's the problem??

Oh, here's one: the tech tree and consequently the (nonexistent) progression of combat and tactics are so goddamn unimaginative and boring it's painful!

Soo, lemme see; you research this new kind of rifles, but oh looksy, they're behaving just like the ones I already have, only the damage gets a plus. And same stupid shit with the next tier. And the next. And then I'm ready to die of boredom. Who the hell thought this was a clever idea?? Oh, and laser guns that shoot 'blobs'? SERI-FUCKING-OUSLY??

Yes, I know why this is: Xenonauts is supposed to be a direct remake of the original game. With all due respect to the authors, but this is a retarded statement. Why is aerial combat improved then?! Why do we have combat shields, the only real and cool ground combat innovation in this game?! If I wanted a completely samey gameplay as in the original, I'd play, you know, the original game. Mind-boggling, I suppose.

You had the opportunity to make something fresh, but you've just blown it. Gollop realized seventeen years ago that tiers of the same kind of weapons were adequate for the first game, but won't cut it anymore in sequels, when he made X-COM: Apocalypse. Why you guys chose to follow an older and obsolete design, is really beyond me. A colossal mistake that makes you look really short-sighted and lazy (eventhough I totally know you worked your ass off on this game). Right now, I have bigger desire to play UFO: Afterlight again than Xenonauts. Seriously: the new UFO series has a couple ranks more variations than this game. What a pity.

"It's easy being a general after the fight."

Bullshit. I've been following the project almost from the start. There were numerous requests to provide for more diverse weapon selection, but developers just flatly chose to ignore them.

"It's easy to criticize. Provide suggestions instead."

Oh, there were many. The most abundant probably being inclusion of grenade launchers, that was met with objections on the ground that "them 'nades could get imbalanced." Oh please, what a load of bollocks. Of course everyone would be shooting grenades in spades - that's what modern combat is also all about. Smart munition, artillery bombardments and the like. But instead of adapting to this extended combat environment, developers chose to cut it and stay at pure "shoot teh big rifle at teh mark and pray to RNG gods." YAAAWN. The most fun weapon in UFO: Afterlight is the grenade launcher. Yeah, it's slightly imba, because a pair of them can stunlock aliens into oblivion. But it's pure fun. And most importantly: when it's introduced, it profoundly changes the gameplay. Nothing like that in Xenonauts, only same old pew pew through the whooole game. People suggested the inclusion of M79 numerous times. One would think developers would get the hint. Apparently not.

Just to give you more suggestions: sensors. There are almost none in this game, while the game in UFO: Aftershock ridiculously changes when you get infra-red cyborg implants. Let's play a game of spot the pattern, shall we? Combat in Apocalypse get absurdly fun when the first tiny cute blue explosive dog comes running your way. Or when you start using cloaking devices. And toxiguns. And so on. Gameplay in Apoc and UFOs is leaps and bounds more diverse and fun than in Xenonauts.

Wanna know why I only completed the game up to midpoint on veteran? Because I got so bored I wanted to rip my brains out. It's UFO: Extraterrestrials all over again. A goddamn snoozefest. I hoped this would be the game I'd play as much as the original, but nooo, completed it once (and a half), now it's gone to the most distant part of my hard drive, never to be touched again. So sad.

I may have come up a bit pissed in the text above: that's because I am. It's genuinely painful to see such a lovely crafted game with so much potential, that developers have poured so much sweat into, fall short because of one crucial missing ingredient.

Really, what a goddamn waste of potential.

And no, don't give me the 'mods argument', because it's not the player's task to fix a broken game. It's developers' task.

Over and out.

Edited by omglaserspewpew

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Weapon tiers in both the original and new X-Com are all pretty much the same, especially the original where you can get away with using just using laser rifles or heavy plasmas.

In Xenonauts you at least have different weapon types. Pistols, shotguns, rifles, snipers, rockets, different grenade types, shields, machine guns, vehicles, armours with different functionality all work differently and all are useful. Not many tactical wargames like this can claim that much diversity in their weapon functionality. I'd argue that even the mighty Jagged Alliance 2 (unmodded) falls behind here. UFO Aftermath certainly doesn't outstrip it. It has rifles, snipers, shotguns, grenades, rocket launchers, pretty much everything Xenonauts has. Pistols aren't useful in that game and it has not shields nor jump packs. Grenade Launchers don't really make that much difference diversity wise.

In fact enterable buildings and destructible terrain place Xenonauts quite beyond UFO tactics-wise.

You suggestion to introduce a single op weapon is completely contrary to wait you claim to want because opness only makes the game more homogeneous. Besides, Xenonauts does have grenade launchers, they're called hands.

In any case I suspect your post doesn't bear legitimate intention so whatever.

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I agree in some way with you and Jean/Luc, but I think that is only the beginning.

The Techtree is lineal, weapons are lineal ad there is not any bit of risk in weapons design. For now is work for modders. your right about detectors, for that is nothing I can say.

In other hand Jean, the game establish weapon roles and make useful archetypes. Its similar to other games but maybe could be more diverse.

I remember the first classic XCOM, the Heavy Laser (Infinite Ammunition, Good accuracy) are a bit Different from Heavy Plasma (Better Damage and Automatic Fire).

Try dig into mod section of the forum, maybe you found what you'r looking.

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The game is intended to be a faithful XCOM remake. You even acknowledged that in your post--So I'm not sure where you're coming from saying that they had the "opportunity" to make something fresh, since that was never the intent. Maybe this is mind-blowing to you, but "faithful remake" does mean that the game is going to have the same basic gameplay. It really seems like you wanted this game to be a different type of game than it was intended to be.

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I get the impression you're telling us about these design decisions rather than asking about the reasons behind them, so I don't feel there'd be a lot of point me responding to them.

I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy the game, though I'm glad that there were elements you did think worthwhile.

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While i think that the linear and boring progression in tech is definitly one of the weakeast points, i have no problem with applying mods, so your problem is kind of a mood point.

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[b... because it's not the player's task to fix a broken game. It's developers' task.

Please c'mon, the game isn't broken!

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The OP's tone is a bit over the top but it succeeded in getting some responses so it probably was intentional. =)

And the suggestion / complaint wasn't to have a single OP weapon.

He criticised the complete lack of imagination in weapon mechanics when moving from tier 1 to tier 2 to tier 3...

Plasma weapons are hot stuff. They start fires and a hit has a DoT component, damaging something for 1 or 3 turns afterward.

HV weapons overpenetrate without destroying destroying the actual cover. They only punch tiny holes like in

.

Lasers could simply be more accurate. You just can't beat light speed.

*shrug*

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I don't think it's a "waste". Xenonauts is exactly what it claims to be IMO, a modernized remake. Sure, they could have done a lot of different stuff, but that wasn't the goal.

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Lasers could simply be more accurate. You just can't beat light speed.

*shrug*

Isn't it still a matter of accuracy rather than dodging? :)

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I'm not saying that it's noticeably easier to evade a 1000m/s bullet at close range - this was just a possible way to differentiate weapon tiers with an explanation that would at least sound somewhat legit. =)

Another option would be that lasers have low spread when burst firing. Low recoil with this glorified flashlight.

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I don't enjoy the game at all with the way it is set up so I changed some stuff. I had my highest ranking soldier in Sentinel Armor get liquefied with one shot from a hidden alien and that was it for me. I start out with $2 billion dollars so I don't have to do without the stuff and structures that I want. I start the game with 10 bases so that the radar covers most of the world. I made the sniper rifles more accurate and good for longer distances. I made the armor and the aircraft a little better too. I have it so that the soldiers start with better stats.

I love playing the game the way it is now. I still have to strategize but I don't lose soldiers the way I did when playing the game with it's original settings and I don't have to run from massive UFOs.

I don't understand how anyone enjoyed playing it with the original settings, you don't have the resources you need to accomplish the mission. It didn't make any sense to me, it was like those countries were all saying WE DEMAND THAT YOU SAVE THE WORLD BUT YOU HAVE TO DO IT WITH A BUDGET OF $1.98 A MONTH !!!...the world is on the brink of annihilation but you aren't willing to give adequate funding to save it ?...all of the money in the world will have no meaning once the aliens take over...

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I'm not sure I'd enjoy playing the game much under those rules, but that's why we made everything moddable. You can play the game however you think it should be set up!

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That being said perhaps someone will figure a way to produce a simple manager to make these changes more user friendly. Too early for that probably :)

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I agree its potential is wasted, but on completely different points. :D

Losing soldiers is not fun, but thats war.

I find the funding adequate, but the constant lowering of profit for cleaning the sites is scary. Its still not like this yet, but at this rate, it WILL be easier and almost as profitable to airstrike the sites and only do a token part or missions. Pushing the player to only own a single drop-ship with a single strike-team. Smells of enemy unknown/within to me.

Vehicles are still useless. Auto aircombat is fishy, 2 migs take out a corvette easily, but in auto they lose half hp most of the time. While 1 condor and 2 migs take out 3 fighters without a scratch, which I tried to do manually and failed miserably.

Theres still only small crews of aliens in the UFOs, challenge of more manouvering and more targets being swapped for a nuisance of killing 7 sebilians with ton of hp each mission.

UFOs still landing to avoid air combat, then taking off before shrikes with troops arrive, still no air-to-stationary aircraft is deployed.

Aliens are bombing the shit out of our civilians, yet we cant hit their operations in the same way, even if theyre in the open.

The percentage AP cost for shooting is an insult as well, thankfully aliens suffer from it too.

I must confess I didnt make it past February on the latest patches, (the blue androns always get me) it still leaves much more to be desired.

I understand that such changes are hardly coming true since the "wait for mods" answer is already flying everywhere, but i felt the need to voice this and I thank you for reading. :)

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May I just say that this game, in itself is an amazing game. But not worth the $25 I spent on it, when the original is only 5 (in fact, it's on sale and only 2.50 right now). Because the new one is 5x more expensive, one does expect a little more refining and adding than is currently on. Interceptor combat is great, and really makes things more in-depths for shooting aliens down. But I don't quite feel as out-classed as I want to against the alien dogfighters. The combat is really short, and usually consists of flying at them with my gatling gun blazing, rolling as much as possible. Missiles should be more maneuverable, being able to do a wide loop around and strike the target after the first dodge. The lasers should be vastly different from the other two tiers: recoil for most weapons would be nonexistant or almost there, and if your barrel is pointed at the target you will hit it (although, using a trigger system it would be much harder to keep it there, as it would sway away from the target at the pull); laser shotguns are just silly, it's a little late to change it now, but shouldn't it just be a laser rifle with a much less existent focuser? Burst fire for the rifles should really be beam fire, overload the coolant a little in exchange for more burn on your foes. The laser sniper really doesn't get enough credit I think, as plasma would fly slower than a bullet, and would more lightly douse a foe than concentrated splat. The laser sniper would be ridiculously accurate, and really quick to fire in the hands of one who knew what they were doing. Burning out the alien's eyes works just as well at neutralizing most of them as superheated gas to the neck would, and one you burn out the eyes, you get a direct shot to the brain. Also, there's a lot of opportunity to make the combat more modernized than pew-pew. Airstrikes would be cool, I mean I pulled a Condor all the way here to guard me, let me strafe the UFO a few times. Or at least aerial surveillance. Drones would be nice, allow a person to scout out areas that you don't have radar coverage in. Although, I do admit advanced drones were a bit beyond the time period this is set it.

I also feel like the countries funding me are really idiotic. First of all, the funding isn't realistic. The US and Soviets should be pouring millions into this project. They have plenty of money to spare. The local forces should be more a tad more competent. Just a little, like running away instead of shooting in the open. In short, they should be more scared of the aliens. Additionally, I feel like the local militaries should be a little more helpful in panic attacks, seeing as how, you know, it's an alien terrorist attack. Maybe even UFO raids, I shoot them down, and they roll in some tanks to help my guys on their way up, if they happen to be available and like me enough.

Preference note: lasers should be purple, or even invisible, not red. The higher the frequency the more the energy. Unless the higher spectrums take longer to affect the foe, and infrared is more needed. I know we have the red connotation with lasers, but it's a really silly idea.

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Oh, and almost forgot: THE UI! IT'S SO MUCH BETTER: IT ACTUALLY TELLS ME WHAT THE BUTTONS DO!

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I wouldn't call this game a waste, but there are several things that really annoy the hell out of me and just make it no fun to play.

One is the aliens shooting from across the map at my guys without me ever seeing one; that's really a pain in the ass if you just turned your guy that way to check for enemies, and still you get shot out of the dark...

The other is accuracy - I am standing 4-5 tiles away from the alien, but I get hit percentages of 30%. That is just no fun. I might as well equip my guys with close combat weapons :(

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May I just say that this game, in itself is an amazing game. But not worth the $25 I spent on it, when the original is only 5

That's not fair at all. As games get older they get cheaper. A year ago on steam I could buy every GTA game ever made except V for £5. Does that mean that GTA 5 should have been £5 too? No you wouldn't.

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@Msp - you're right-clicking to add extra accuracy to the shot, right?

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I agree with chris.

Its easy to criticize features of the game and very hard to understand the reason behind it.

When I engage moding I begin to understand the delicated balance of the game. Now it takes too much time and its quiet hard to rebalance again.

Chris and Company make a great game, and I notice in the files that they try to include more features, but they dont have enough time to implement.

:)

This game is awesome, if you miss it, your wasting a huge oportunity to enjoy this wondefull game.

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Riiight i forgot there are no lethal close combat weapons either. Thanks for reminding me -_-

Stun batons are the strongest weapon, on the targets that can be stunned that is.

As for being shot out of the dark, dont do night missions, you can always reach the site during the day, if you time the departure.

If this happened during the day, Im possitive "another" alien saw you, therefore his pal was able to target you...

Edit: I dont think agreeing with Chris gets you special treatment. Of course the game is awesome, Ive played it too much already, but this thread was started to point out that its not perfect... and thats what you should be doing, pointing out the bad stuff, make devs feel bad and make an *** out of yourself.

Edited by ViniJones

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