mr_pa

*** I accidentally posted this in the announcements forum, so this is a copy from that thread. I've been testing the suppressed effect on aliens in the beginning levels of normal difficulty, V21 E6. Thus far I haven't noticed any incorrect behaviors – no alien has reacted while suppressed, nor has any fired more than two shots during the alien's turn. Basic armor was given maximum values and ballistic stats were adjusted to create an easier testing environment. It does seem that shotguns cannot suppress at the moment. I posted a bug thread and a workaround if anyone is interested: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/9174-V21-%28Ex-6%29-Ground-Combat-Shotguns-cannot-suppress Increasing shotgun suppression values to be even with AR bursts seemed good, although probably too good. The AR's burst value is 60 and its radius 3. The ballistic shotgun, laser carbine, and mag carbine all have suppression values of 50 and 2. The farmer's shotgun has values of 40 and 2, while the plasma carbine has a value of 25 and a radius of 2 (certainly it is intended for the plasma to be 50). And the flash bang is 100 and 5. Just been experimenting.

I've been testing the suppressed effect on aliens in the beginning levels of normal difficulty, V21 E6. Thus far I haven't noticed any incorrect behaviors – no alien has reacted while suppressed, nor has any fired more than two shots during the alien's turn. Basic armor was given maximum values and ballistic stats were adjusted to create an easier testing environment. It does seem that shotguns cannot suppress at the moment. I posted a bug thread and a workaround if anyone is interested: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/9174-V21-%28Ex-6%29-Ground-Combat-Shotguns-cannot-suppress Increasing shotgun suppression values to be even with AR bursts seemed good, although probably too good. The AR's burst value is 60 and its radius 3. The ballistic shotgun, laser carbine, and mag carbine all have suppression values of 50 and 2. The farmer's shotgun has values of 40 and 2, while the plasma carbine has a value of 25 and a radius of 2 (certainly it is intended for the plasma to be 50). And the flash bang is 100 and 5. Just been experimenting. *** EDIT Just realized I tabbed to the wrong thread when posting this. A copy has been posted in Beta Discussion.

I have read some questions about aliens taking reaction shots while suppressed, so I decided to run some tests (V21 Experimental 6, normal difficulty): First, an incidental and mostly negligible observation – a weapon's suppression radius cannot extend beyond the weapon's range. Example: Shotgun Range = 8 Shotgun Suppression Radius = 2 A shell impacting 8 squares away cannot suppress an alien standing on the 9th or 10th beyond even though the suppression radius extends there. Now to the main point – I edited basic armor values to max, increased suppression values for all ballistic weapons, increased clip capacities, and decreased AP and reload costs. This allowed for guaranteed suppression of all aliens while my soldiers marched invincibly back and forth in front of them. The tests haven't yet shown an alien reacting while suppressed, nor have they shown a suppressed alien acting with full TU's during the alien's own turn (I never saw an alien take more than two snap shots after being suppressed), but they do seem to indicate that shotguns cannot suppress. All weapons except shotguns were able to. Shotguns never did, even after dozens of shots tested with values ranging from normal up to 500 (normal is 50). Since shotguns do not have bursts, the game assigns them no suppression values. More specifically, the problem is this: <Ammo name="ammo.ballistic.shotgun" type="kinetic" damage="25" mitigation="0" pelletCount="3"> For any gun to which “pelletCount” has been added, the game references only its suppression values from its “BurstFire” line: <BurstFire ap="60" accuracy="35" sound="Weapon Assault Rifle Burst" delay="0.6" burstdelay="0.1" shotCount="3" suppressionValue="60" suppressionRadius="3" /> No shotgun has this line (the example above is taken from Assault Rifles), so both variables are seen as zero. Removing “pelletCount” allows shotguns to suppress (albeit with just a single round). Adding a “BurstFire” line will also. After adding this, I set the suppression values for single shots to 5 and 1, and for bursts to 500 and 5. This resulted in 100% suppression for all three shot types. I next reversed these numbers and then all shot types took dozens more to suppress. Assault Rifles, which do not have “pelletCount,” appropriately reference the differing suppression values for single shots and bursts. Anyhow, thanks for reading. Many apologies if the science/observations/guesses are incorrect. **** EDIT Adding bursts to shotguns does mean that each individual burst shot sends out pellets, though snap and normal shots work as intended. For fun I set the pellet count to 100 and the shot count to 10. The game didn't crash, but it did hang for a while.

Still trying out the experimental changes, but I do have one initial suggestion. I would reinstate the 'Heavy' penalty on Machine Guns, halve the AP to 40%, and decrease the shot count to 5 (for reader reference it is currently 80% AP, shot count 10, and no 'Heavy' penalty). The potential damage output would remain the same. With this change the Predator suit would have three choices – remain in place and shoot twice, advance and shoot once, or use all TU's for scouting. They could function more as an armored spearhead and regular soldiers would realize a much smaller gain since they would again suffer the 'Heavy' penalty. I have added this change and the game does feel better tactically. Plus I think 5 shots fits the game's system/aesthetics more. Thanks.

Chris, I like your proposals and I vote for the majority sentiment on explosives and machine guns. I do think that armor mitigation should be as follows: Pistols/Shotguns = None Rifles/Machine Guns = Low Grenades/Rockets = Medium (impact tile) Precision Rifles = High What do think about giving a longer duration to smoke grenades and stun grenades? Perhaps give the smoke an extra turn before significant dissipation begins? I often chain two (or infrequently more) in order to give my soldiers enough time for a maneuver. I think stun grenades should require an extra turn to apply their full effect. And in my experience the effects from several are cumulative. If true, perhaps lessen this? This gives the AI more of a chance against stun grenade spam. Stun rockets should be more powerful than their grenade counterparts. I haven't used the melee stun weapon in this version, but it felt a little soft in the last. Thanks.

Just registered to leave a thought on the matter. The game is great and I have enjoyed playing under both approaches. What if a soldier's rank were to give a slight reduction to the percentages? Perhaps -1% per rank above the first? A Colonel's cumulative reduction would then be 7%. An action costing 50% TU for a Private would be lowered to 43% for a Colonel. This assumes that the promotion system has been finalized (which I do not know if it has been). And I have no experience in balance or design, so my suggestion could be rubbish! Thanks for discussing this matter with us, Chris.