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Absolutely correct! Veering off topic slightly is better than not allowing people a voice. It isn't really friendly to ask mods to lock a topic anyway. If you don't want to read it then don't! If the mods think a topic should be locked then that is part of their job. Let me tell you a brief story. I love War Thunder. But I use a joystick/pad as opposed to mouse. The mouse basically lets you fly like a UFO. At one point there were many like me playing (years ago) - our squadron had 200 alone. Now we have... 3. Why? Because when we started topics to try to get some fair play all the mouse players jumped on and ridiculed us, saying the game was built for mouse aim so we should use it (it wasn't actually). They started arguments in our threads, the mods were mostly on their side and didn't want the hassle, so our threads all got locked and our voice wasn't heard. Many left, gave up the fight, and even though we fly and fight with an aircraft resembling aircraft controls (whilst mouse aimers fly what basically amounts to a UFO with anti-grav), WE are made to look like the idiots! That is the only major flaw of WT. It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Now, years later, approx. 40% of the player base use joypads because they are console players; because many don't have a mouse and keyboard they get the proverbial kicked out of them, and many don't know why (because they were never told about the control discrepancies). And THAT'S why it sets a dangerous precedent! Not saying anything like that will happen here of course. There is no control issue here. But the point is we were not allowed a voice there. If people are discussing the game or topic loosely, isn't that better than them not discussing it at all? Isn't that what a forum is for? That's why I'm so against people asking mods to lock threads etc. For bad language or for people who want to rant at Chris etc. then it's obvious what a mod will do (happened a few weeks ago actually and Max told the guy where to do, as did Chris - and they were absolutely right to!).

True! I would assume that would be before christmas though. You can't really keep people waiting forever.

Sounds good, though I wonder how we are going to capture one for examination in that case?! Perhaps there's a chance that they won't explode in a fireball. In the original UFO it was the Cyberdiscs that tended to explode.

That's fine as long as you always take a look behind you (using some TUs to do so in the process)!

That's kind of what Chris did with Xen1. And it's a good model. Personally I'm old school and haven't wanted to delve deep into an unfinished game (like I didn't with Xen1). I like to be pleasantly surprised when the final release comes out. The Beta releases, though, cater for those that want to help the development and get their teeth into something tangible. So it's all good I guess, whatever type of player you are. I really wouldn't want Chris to rush things, just because some of us are starting to get restless (and I don't think he will). Hopefully this poll will show he is right NOT to. Good things come to those who wait! Hopefully life will be pretty much back to normal for most of us by Christmas too (and Xen2 would make a good Christmas present for many gamers :-)).

In xen 1 it also gets really annoying on the big ships where the psi aliens hide on the bridge at the top of the ship and affect your soldiers, even if no other alien can see them. This is not really fair as you have a whole bunch of aliens in between you and them. Line of sight rules should apply - if an alien can see your soldier then they can psi-op him. That's fair enough isn't it? Also, I never really worked out if those things that could teleport in xen1 got to fire directly after they teleported. I would presume they teleported and then got to act on their next turn (in the same way that a Paratroop unit drops and takes time to gather together before it can attack). Otherwise teleportation is just too powerful.

Just a little poll which may help Goldhawk to decide when best to release a "finished" Xenonauts 2. I'm quite happy to wait until christmas, as it should give them time to release a polished product (remember, Chris has just had a baby and also remember there will always be the impact of the Coronavirus). I think releasing a polished product rather than releasing an unfinished product looks bad on a company, even if they work to fix it eventually. Remember also that Goldhawk actually release their products as betas so we get to test them if we want to, and they get the bug feedback, which is mutually beneficial, so it potentially works as a 'graded' release. As long as they deliver what they said they would (like they did with Xen 1) then I'm happy! If the majority of us choose option 3 then I hope this will give the team some breathing space. But if they do things in a similar vein to what they did in Xen 1 then they will get to where they want to be eventually (in fact, the way Chris did it impressed me - he didn't just say "it's finished", drop it and move on). Remember also that from what I have seen, the early game looks pretty much finished. Not so sure about the late game, but for obvious reasons there is time to patch that (especially if most of us play on iron man mode and we get beat :-)). It looks like Chris is reasonably close to a release date, but what do YOU think is the best course of action?

The problem with that, of course, is that it takes time to implement! And the natives are starting to get restless for a release date. Perhaps it's the time for them to start thinking about putting in a bigger "bang for our buck" and this just strikes me as one simple way of doing so. Someone lamented the disappearance of the Foxhound earlier, and yes, I totally understand this generic new F-16 retro-fit type mechanic (i'm indifferent to it because, although it means less diversity, we all know that the F-16 can carry Heavy, as well as light missiles). But for me at least, the focus of the work should be on the ground combat since it is the core of the game and what we are all really playing it for. More variation and better AI. And if there's a simple way to get that then so much the better. That's not to say, of course, that the air combat bit should remain as flawed as it was in xen 1 (it gets a bit dull toward the end of the game). I think Chris is doing his best to address that though.

Nevertheless it's an easy way to get a bit more complexity into things with regards strategy, and fits in with the way things are going (i.e. dumping the Foxhound for a generic all-around aircraft). Imagine holing up the last alien in a barn, your last sight of it being a Sebillian, only for a Reaper to burst out. It has its merits simply because it will keep you on your toes.

How about adding a "shapeshifter" enemy to xen 2, which mutates into one of the other types of enemy every few turns? That would be a nice twist. And it would be easy to do as the graphics etc. already exist.

I never tried that!

That alien right there looks like it will club you to death! Speaking of hand to hand combat, I can't remember if you could even do it in xen. Did anyone ever try it as a last resort?

I think everyone likes a bit of alien weirdness, and I see nothing wrong with a "floating eye"! Such a lifeform could have developed somewhere in the universe. They could, perhaps, be allied with the Psi aliens to be their means of a line-of-sight target lock for Psi attacks or spotting civilians and your soldiers on terror/ UFO missions (I've never liked the way powerful Psi-aliens can cower on the bridge, not see any of your men, yet still lock on to 'turn' them). Perhaps they could be akin to fast reconnaissance units that don't actually carry a weapon, but just do the spotting for the above/the rest of the aliens and need to be killed quickly, otherwise you are at risk of a Psi attack). Perhaps they can compensate for not having a weapon by temporarily halving the morale of any soldier that sees one (terror)? Basically neusiance units that must be eliminated as quickly as possible. Not all types of aliens have to be super powerful and carry weapons you know. Some can be true support units. Can you imagine being surrounded by floating eyes?! Variety is the spice of life, and would go a long way to making sure that x2 is NOT x1 with a new coat of paint.

This is a good point. I like what chris did in xen 1 - you can still fire the weapons, but they are unwieldy and thus not very accurate.

I also believe that Xenonauts improved in the original UFO:EU in many ways. Improvement along the same lines is not a bad thing at all. It's all looking good for xen2 so far. Those are the games we came to love; it's not good to veer too far from the original formula because it might burn you - which has happened with other games. I guess the biggest improvements I'm expecting are in the air combat and AI of the aliens. More map variety would be nice too. More of the same, basically (in the same vein as Xen1). One thing that UFO has over xen is that it has a bit of alien 'wierdness' where xen doesn't. It would be nice to see floating eyes etc.

In xen1 the foxtrot ended up being more useful than the condor as the game progressed, simply because it was tougher and was able to carry the big missiles. I don't know. The modular system is easier for the devs because it involves less work (why have an F15 and an A-10 when you can modify a single aircraft to do the roles of both)? Although this is a disadvantage in terms of aircraft variety, it has the advantage that time can be spent on improving other areas of the game instead, rather than drawing new graphics etc. Things always have their upsides as well as downsides.

I suppose it's all about complexity and the time they have to implement something more complicated with regards to air combat. Personally I don't see it and they should probably make ground combat much more of a priority since it is the core of the game (which they have done). Something better than what was in xen one is undoubtedly expected though. That all got a bit samey after a while. It needs sprucing up a bit, giving you surprises occasionally (maybe alien fighters turn up if you don't destroy the UFO in time and you have to tackle them too or retreat). Perhaps this element will be moddable by the community, but it would be a major mod to do!

They kind of did that in Xen1 though. I always found that if it was between killing an AI or one of your soldiers, they'd always go for the AI first! That seemed a bit strange as your soldier is more likely to be armed than the AI.

Yes, it's much more of a problem when the big ships turn up (UFO crash sites). You can contain it until then. The only thing you can really do is drop your weapon, yes. By bugs do you mean software errors? I had a guy with a jet-pack get stuck behind a carrier once and had to edit the file to place him just outside so he could move again. Seeing that he was the last man and I play on Iron man mode I just flew him back to the ship and aborted the mission!

The under alien control thing got a bit too much on the bigger UFOs because the most powerful of the Alien Psi-soldiers would always tend to be in the control room at the top of the UFO, which of course, were hard to get at. So they could even decimate a very good squad (i.e. have them kill each other). Also, I'm not sure how Psi-ops were conducted. It makes logical sense to only allow them to lock on to one of your soldiers that was seen by a friendly, but I don't think that was the case. That would make it a lot fairer though. If they have the right to cower in the control room without fear of imminent attack to do their stuff then your soldiers have the right to stay in the dropship, hidden away without fear of a psi-attack! That was always one thing I found unfair about xen 1. And surely line-of-sight Psi attacks are easy to do. Something for Chris to tweak perhaps?

I liked the way it was handled in xen1, but there was a bit too much, "Under Alien Control" going on. I don't think humans should have attacking mind control power though - only defensive. Some things should remain a mystery!

And what's wrong with a futuristic A-10 may I ask?! I guess you live in the east?!

Missiles do have the ability to turn and maneuver, if perhaps not turn 180 degrees. I was stating that in xen 1 they don't turn. It may be an idea to allow them a degree of maneuverability so you have to evade them until they "burn out". It might make air combat a little more complex. From what I have seen this is the weakest element in xen2 at the minute.

One thing about the missiles as well. In Xen 1 they always went in a straight line. Air to air missiles tend not to. Especially short range maneuverable ones. If you evaded them they wouldnt turn back on you.

Did you get my point about taking away the valuable resources and time to put the AI in place to do this? Goldhawk are a small team. Players are already chomping at the bit for them to release Xen2 soon, because they are beginning to get restless. I'm afraid that all things considered, I disagree entirely with making the core of the game an optional auto-resolve for so many reasons. This reminds me of my nephew playing that Yu-Gi-Oh card game on line with his friends. It ceases to actually become a game because he flicks through everything so fast just because he wants to get to the end result, win or lose. I am a programmer myself, and I know that AI is very tricky to get right. You have to throw a lot of resources and testing at it. It's just not worth doing the auto resolve thing for a small programming team. Do you know what Julian Gollop did for the AI with Rebelstar one player game? It was an easy strategy to figure out. When attacking the moonbase, if you only entered via one airlock the computer would rush all its units to that airlock to defend it, only for you to then later go in the back door and win. Every time. Cheap and dirty I know, and this was in another era. But the fact remains the same - good AI is resource-hungry in so many ways, and I'd much prefer that effort to go into making Alien AI more intelligent and cunning WHILST fighting them on the tactical map! However, if the team find they have more resources to do so later then why not? But I would bet they would want to move on to another project by then. This is why Goldhawks plan of releasing community editions is so promising for mods though. Someone may feel it's a good idea and take you up on it.