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Why female soldiers


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didn't manage to pick anyone up then ?

That was written with somewhat of a jokingly approach. Only somewhat. And i guess my girlfriend would be a bit sad and confused if i brought someone with me home.

Ok then i have completely missed the female civies.

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It's interesting how realism is held against female Xenonauts. Apart from the totally sci-fi setting the game is in (which throws realism out of the window anyway), I'd like to remark that I have never heard anybody criticize Jagged Alliance 2 for having female mercenaries. En contraire, it is a praised classic, played and lauded for its relative realism (especially with the 1.13 mod). How did this game ever manage to get through the radar with about 40% female frontline fighters, when there are in fact even fewer female mercenaries than female regular soldiers?

Regarding the claim that females add nothing to the game - maybe they don't add anything mechanically, but they do add emotion and style. Conversely, some much-wanted mechanical additions don't add much fun or style, just more a little more variation or (potentially tedious) micromanagement. That needn't exactly be bad, but from my point of view it sure is inferior to something that gives the game that certain something.

I'm glad there is now a poll to settle the issue. :)

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Regarding the claim that females add nothing to the game - maybe they don't add anything mechanically, but they do add emotion and style. Conversely, some much-wanted mechanical additions don't add much fun or style, just more a little more variation or (potentially tedious) micromanagement. That needn't exactly be bad, but from my point of view it sure is inferior to something that gives the game that certain something.

The main issue is that a "certain something" is very subjective.

If female soldiers were in from the start no one would be asking for them to be removed.

If this was a first or third person game that put you into the role of a visible character then it would be a big issue for me if there was no female protagonist.

Maybe the easiest way would be to have a female general and not be concerned about the grunts :P

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(which throws realism out of the window anyway)

That's just the thing, it doesn't. For some reason people always look at this black and white. Either it's completely realistic or anything goes. But it's never like that. I've never, in my life, seen a setting that was 100% non-realistic fiction. It's very possible to have a real historical setting but with fictional events. If you're going for something like that, let's say London under attack by aliens, you'll want to keep the setting real. So you'll have your Big Ben, you Buckingham Palace, Brits walking around (not cat people), there will still be gravity, people will still breathe air, they'll bleed when shot, etc. Realism is never "thrown away", there is always some plan and cohesion to the said fictional setting depending on what you're trying to do.

Just so it's clear I'm not arguing against female soldiers (I want them in the game). I'm just bothered by this very widespread notion that one unrealistic/fictional thing automatically begets another and another and so on.

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I've never, in my life, seen a setting that was 100% non-realistic fiction. [/qUOTE]

I would say "super prison" makes a very good attempt at that. :P

That show is fucked up. (I don't mean to undermine your argument in any way... I completly agree with you. It's just that that show is soooo ¤¤&"ed up.)

Edited by Gorlom
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Go females!

I love women (duh). I loved the original EU.

It's not much of a stretch that first contact changed human society quite a bit, making women more active in combat units for one thing.

I voted them pretty high. But not higher than a dedicated map maker, or new tileset. It was very hard to vote, because I want all the things. However, I would miss women in the game more than a new tileset tbh.

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I find putting female soldiers in for the sole purpose of political correctness is stupid. Sorry, I do. The game depicts an age where there weren't many (any?) females in military service. Having females in there would just upset the immersion. I have nothing against women playing games or doing military service, and suggesting I do is offensive to my intellect.

But if you'd make, say, a movie about the same age, you'd have male soldiers to keep the immersion.

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I find putting female soldiers in for the sole purpose of political correctness is stupid.

Chris's reasoning for adding female soldier portraits was based on the principle of inclusiveness rather than political correctness. It's an issue many people feel strongly about, and I can only hope the executive decision pays off handsomely in form of financial support from everyone who does.

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In part, this whole discussion is aggravated by the fact that Xenonauts has a set date of 1979. While this provides for a cool Cold War flair, it also hinders things. X-COM was set in 1999, which was then in the future - not far, but along with generic weapons it made the game sort of timeless, which can be felt until today.

Some days ago, I read that Xenonauts might have put unneeded limits upon itself with the set date (might've been at RPS, not sure). I didn't believe this was a problem in any way, but I think the discussion regarding female soldiers shows that there are in fact some disadvantages to the chosen timeframe.

Also, I think this isn't about political correctness. PC in my opinion is an expression relating to minimizing offense to people, especially in a context where said people aren't even offended but some feel the need to defend them anyways. I don't believe this to be the case in Xenonauts, where it's not about being holier-than-thou, but about making female gamers feel welcome and keeping the spirit of the original X-COM.

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Political correctness is the worst, most idiotic reason to ever do anything.

Inclusiveness is a good reason to give it a shot.

If it would bankrupt Goldhawk to add female soldiers and make them unable to deliver their game then I would be against it.

The decision Chris has made should allow them to include female soldiers without causing financial worries so I am for it.

I am still not convinced that all of the sprites and artwork will adequately represent both male and female troops but Chris has seen more of it than I have and he is happy enough to go for it so I can hardly argue against that :P.

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Also, I think this isn't about political correctness. PC in my opinion is an expression relating to minimizing offense to people, especially in a context where said people aren't even offended but some feel the need to defend them anyways. I don't believe this to be the case in Xenonauts, where it's not about being holier-than-thou, but about making female gamers feel welcome and keeping the spirit of the original X-COM.

Thanks for putting it more eloquently that I could.

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My answer for a question like this is: 1979 was the year the first 'Alien' film was made, which is also when Xenonauts is based. That film had a female lead character who managed to outlive any of the other characters in the film (not just men, a woman too). I know Alien is set in the future, but the film being made in 1979 made it clear that not all women are damsels waiting to be rescued from some big scary monster.

But that movie also killed off their most famous actors first and then went down the list untill the noname Sigourney Weaver was left with the lead role to everyones surprise. That move practically aimed to shock as much as possible.

I don't think that's the best example for your argument.

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1) Hire Level Designer (10.56)

2) Indoor Missions (10.21)

3) Soviet Town tileset (9.31)

4) Military Base tileset (9.30)

5) Reaper Hive tileset (8.78)

6) Female Soldiers (8.44)

I feel the poll options speak for themselves - not to mention in that update Chris has stated they will be putting in female portraits. I do believe we can now let this topic end.

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1) Hire Level Designer (10.56)

2) Indoor Missions (10.21)

3) Soviet Town tileset (9.31)

4) Military Base tileset (9.30)

5) Reaper Hive tileset (8.78)

6) Female Soldiers (8.44)

I feel the poll options speak for themselves - not to mention in that update Chris has stated they will be putting in female portraits. I do believe we can now let this topic end.

Agreed! Looking forward to those Indoor missions, hopefully they are as claustrophobic as the ones back in the original X-Com! :D

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1) Hire Level Designer (10.56)

2) Indoor Missions (10.21)

3) Soviet Town tileset (9.31)

4) Military Base tileset (9.30)

5) Reaper Hive tileset (8.78)

6) Female Soldiers (8.44)

I feel the poll options speak for themselves - not to mention in that update Chris has stated they will be putting in female portraits. I do believe we can now let this topic end.

Where is that poll? I can't seem to find it...

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I didn't say I was arguing. I was voicing my opinion. What I said was that I pretty much like female characters because of Sigourney and if you took it in a bad way I am truly sorry.
Not argument as in argueing. Argument as in the point you are trying to make. I didn't ahve anything against your post or the tone in which you said it. It's just that it has little to no releveance as far as I see it. They included her as shock value, because it was against the norm etc.

In terms of it being a bad example or in your words "not the best example" I'm sorry but it's quite relevant to the discussion simply because these troopers you control are nobodies exactly like the said "No-name" Sigourney Weaver. All your troopers start as zilch and it's through your campaign that you grow attached to them and they become somebody to you. So in a fight against the aliens you're not guaranteed who will live or die, you might get the wimpy soldier who kept panicking the whole way through the battle or your sergeant may pull through but suffers some wounds, or maybe the said no-name female rookie of your team will eventually become a Captain in your campaign only to be killed near the end. Therefore the "no-name" in my example is relevant.

Ok, now you lost all coherence imo. That doesn't even have anything to do with female soldiers anymore? That just applies to all your soldiers. It becomes even less relevant considering that in the script for the movie the crewmembers of the ship were written as unisex characters that could be played by any gender.

Furthermore you had no hint of any such point in your first post. It feels like you did a 180 degree turn with the point you were trying to make.

I'm all for female soldiers, but suggesting they should be in the game because an old movie from that time placed a woman in the lead role for the shock value of doing so? That reasoning doesn't make sense to me. Why should it be part of the norm if that movie did it just to break the norm?

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Yes - the result; But where is the poll? I have never seen it and have never had a chance to vote..

The poll has been closed for almost 12 hours now. It was capped at 1100 answers. Was linked in the kickstarter update #4.

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