Jump to content

Alien Psionic Powers Discussion


Recommended Posts

StellarRat, soliders in a beserk state do more than attack who you or I might define as the enemy. They attack whoever they think the enemy is. Like the solider who, in a beserk state killed 16 civillians in Afghanistan, or the Nigerian police officers from the Joint Task Force fighitng Boko Haram who in a state described as beserk beat patients into a coma, or a solider again, described in a beserk state killed 6 phillipinos. Now, let's be fair, those soliders (and I can list more) attacked what appeared to be the nearest target - i.e. civillians. But they believed those civvies were the enemy. There's a quote from the article I first link to that I believe sums up the beserker state.

Restraint is always in part the cognitive attention to multiple possibilities in a situation; when all restraint is lost, the cognitive universe is simplified to a single focus. The berserker is figuratively — sometimes literally — blind to everything but his destructive aim. He cannot see the distinction between civilian and combatant or even the distinction between comrade and enemy. One of our veterans was tied up by his own men and taken to the rear while berserk. He has no clear memory but suspects that he had become a serious threat to them.

I therefore agree that a solider will recklessly and frenzidly attack the enemy - but the enemy is whoever that solider decides it to be - not his commanding officer, not his buddies, no-one except the soldier himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

StellarRat, soliders in a beserk state do more than attack who you or I might define as the enemy. They attack whoever they think the enemy is. Like the solider who, in a beserk state killed 16 civillians in Afghanistan, or the Nigerian police officers from the Joint Task Force fighitng Boko Haram who in a state described as beserk beat patients into a coma, or a solider again, described in a beserk state killed 6 phillipinos. Now, let's be fair, those soliders (and I can list more) attacked what appeared to be the nearest target - i.e. civillians. But they believed those civvies were the enemy. There's a quote from the article I first link to that I believe sums up the beserker state.

In all of those cases they targeted civilians and presumably the enemy, not there fellow soldiers though so it doesn't really change his argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is how I picture berserk: "Murphy's platoon was moved forward from reserve to seek a new line of approach. Soon it too was pinned down. Perceiving that the enemy was out of range of carbines and grenades, on his own initiative Murphy crawled back downhill to the heavy-weapons platoon, borrowed a .30 calibre machine-gun, returned with Private Lattie Tipton to find a firing position, and quickly killed two of the defending Germans. Having exhausted his single belt of .30 calibre ammunition, he and Tipton charged and overran one enemy trench with carbines and grenades. A German soldier in a nearby foxhole waved a white flag. Tipton rose to accept his surrender, and was at once shot dead. He was Murphy's closest friend in the army. Enraged, Murphy picked up a German MG42 machine-gun lying at his feet and charged along the hillside, throwing grenades with his free hand. One by one, and entirely alone, he destroyed a succession of enemy positions, killing thirteen Germans. The rest of the unit, at whom he had been shouting curses and imprecations to follow him, then advanced to occupy the ridgeline."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vahilior, you didn't read those articles, did you? If you did, you wouldn't have written "they targeted civilians and presumably the enemy". And my argument agrees with StellarRat that a solider in a berserk state will frenziedly and recklessly attack the enemy. Where my argument differs is that the solider in such a state determines for himself who the enemy is, and will mercilesslessly attack that enemy, regardless of if that enemy is a friend, civillian, prisoner or more "convientional" combatant. As we're quoting World War 2, here's a quote from Band of Brothers that typifies for me what a solider in a beserk state is:

Down in the cellar, the patrol members crowded around the prisoners. The Americans were excited. Many of the men were chattering - or rather shouting over the tremendous noise - trying to describe individual experiences. Their blood was up.

"Lemme kill 'em! Lemme kill 'em!" shouted Vest, rushing towards the prisoners with his pistol drawn. Somebody stopped him

"Get outta here, Vest. They want these bastards back at battalion.", somebody else yelled.

There's your beserk state. There's that frenzied, reckless and violent behaviour that typifies the beserker. Private Vest didn't care those were unarmed prisoners, completely helpless and surrounded by American soliders. He decided that they had to die, wanted to kill them right now and would have if someone hadn't stopped him.

And here's another quote, from the same book.

Combat is a topsy-turvy world. Perfect strangers are going to great lengths to kill you, if they suceed, far from being punished for taking life, they will be rewarded, honoured celebrated. In combat, men stay underground in daylight and do their work in the dark. Good health is a curse; trench foot, pneumonia, severe uncontrollable diarrehea, a broken leg are priceless gifts.

There is a limit to how long a men can function effectively in this topsy-turvy world. For some, mental breakdown comes early; Army psychiatrists found that in Normandy between 10 and 20 percent of the men suffered some form of mental disorder during the first week, and either fled or had to be taken out of the line (many, of course returned to their units later). For others, visible breakdown never occurs but neverthelss effectiveness breaks down. the experiences of men in combat produces emotions stonger than civilians can know, emotions of terror, panic, anger, sorrow, bewilderment, helplessness, uselessness and each of these feelings drained energy and mental stability.

"There is no such thing as 'getting used to combat'", the Army psychiatrists stated in an offical report on Combat Exhaustion. "Each moment in combat imposes a strain so great that men wil break down in direct relation to the intensity and duration of their exposure...psychiatric casualties are as inevitable as gunshot and shrapnel wounds in warfare..."

I can quote an example in Band of Brothers where a solider misidentifies his fellow solider, and then tries to bayonet him over and over, even though the solider being attacked loudly tries to correct him and get him to calm down. When a solider is in a beserk state decides to attack someone, it doesn't matter who that someone is. That someone has got to die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Max - Your argument is as good as mine. We just see things slightly differently. I guess Chris will have to decide if he wants to change anything. All I can say is that the berserk Xenonaut charging out to "get some" is going to be a lot more interesting and dramatic for the player (and less rage quit inducing) than simply turning and shooting one of his buddies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that's controlled rage and heroism (some say stupidity)

That reminds me of the tranquil fury comment earlier about having reduced TU's and greater accuracy.

It would be nice if you could have a chance of counter-attacking when mind control is attempting, and it doesn't need to be a big chance. Suppose when the attempt is made, you are so angry that you go into a berserk state that is fuelled by primal anger of your ID.

For a moment you are seeing through the eyes of the alien and his alien co soldiers are around him. You cannot walk, but you can turn in place and shoot at the aliens, possibly causing reaction fire against the alien.

It wouldn't need to be a big chance, but could you imagine the fun it would be to beat the aliens at their own game, even if it was only occasionally?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vahilior, you didn't read those articles, did you? If you did, you wouldn't have written "they targeted civilians and presumably the enemy".

I read them, and I just re-read them. In none of them did they attack soldiers on their own side. Which was the original point, that berserking might lead them to aggressively attack the enemy without regard for their personal safety but that they wouldn't turn round and spray the nearest person to them regardless of them being civilian, alien, or a friend they had fought through dozens of missions with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, you need to re-read that last article again, because the article states in the last two paragraphs those six phillipinos included 4 militamen and a solider training them. Those weren't the enemy. That wasn't a solider posted to a foreign station. That was blue-on-blue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

A lot of good points and I would agree to the point that the main difference of psi attacks is you have nothing to develop to counter it.

What I wondered as a possible route would be that some sort of med pack/stim packs allows you to "treat" psi attacks by essentially drugging the soldier. The negative aspect being possibly reduced TUs and a big drop in accuracy so you may just want to do that to individual soldiers since they will be far less capable for the mission.

So you have some way to deal with a single soldier getting hit when with a group but if he's on his own he'll get easily mind controlled.

Or maybe going with the stim pack idea these stimulants only last one or two turns so you have to bring along an entire drugstore if you want to keep your soldiers fortified against psi attacks all the time it will be at the expense of other equipment and you constantly spending TUs on keeping the effect.

My current v21 impression was that only some individual soldiers in a group will be hit the hardest so having a way to keep them sane but neutralizing them as an asset would seem sensible and balanced (plus occupying other soldiers like a bleeding wounded soldier will occupy at least a medic). In essence a way to either protect, treat or neutralize them being the target of psi attacks.

Just a thought on how to deal with it without changing everything. However some research fields to deal with PSI attacks if only to point out that you have to screen your soldiers for weaknesses would be nice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In some older Psi-thread I had suggested a "counter".

It can't be too easy or the whole psi thing would lose it's scare.

So there has to be a severe downside.

What if you could remotely fire a dose of tranquiliser from the soldier's armor when one gets mind controlled?

In game terms it would be a small item that the soldier carries in his inventory.

If you press the button, the soldier is KO for the rest of the mission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't bet on that, you degenerate drug-dealing hippie. Commissar Pancakes will be here shortly to execute you

They may take our freedom but they will never take our right to buy and consume overpriced and useless medicine to whatever price the pharma industry dictates :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In some older Psi-thread I had suggested a "counter".

It can't be too easy or the whole psi thing would lose it's scare.

...

It's not really a scare, It's plain annoying because you can't prevent it nor do anything about it. As is you can only do the chicken dance by having everyone drop their weapons at the end of the turn which is not really very immersive but rather gamey (and just hope the AI doesn't figure out grenades).

It hopefully gets better when the LOS problems are fixed but a message popping up that you lost a guy to mind control doesn't add much to the gameplay if you couldn't plan to do anything about it. It's not even throwing dice because you don't even hold the dice.

There is a reason that in the OG you started to weed out your troops for high psionics only. It was plainly annoying as hell to bring anyone else from a certain point onwards but at least you had that counter. I think my rookies were relegated to second tier troops and mortar teams in late game while the A-team breached the upper floor with blaster bombs and flying suits to kill the commander.

An additional problem is that Xenonauts has a bigger alien crew than the OG so carriers, landingships and battleships will easily have three or more psionics onboard. That means three guys MCed every other turn without a way to do anything about it because currently it can hit everyone, more importantly the only threat is he doing something on the aliens' turn or your guys reaction firing him on the aliens' turn. In any case you have nothing to do or decide because when your turn restarts you leave him be because he will be back with you next turn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that "healthy" soldiers should be almost immune to psionic attacks. Only weakened soldier should be prone to PP. What is the point of PP, if you can't do anything to prevent it.

I suggest:

Consider soldier current state: bravery, injured, hp, overloaded, no friendly unit nearby, saw another soldier/civilian died, corpse is near, enemy units to friendly units ratio, low ammunition, distance to psionic alien, rested (fully rested only, if he wasn't on another mission in last X days)

Some resistance training would be nice. It could be really expensive and long. Maybe 5-20% resistance for 50-500K, one or two months long. This training or some device could also provide some hint where psionic alien is. Something like area, distance or direction.

Add another attack type to psionic alien for weakening soldier first. Soldier should be hit several times with this attack to be prone to other attacks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can someone say again how to disable PSI powers?

If you bought game thru Steam, go to Steam\SteamApps\common\Xenonauts\assets then scroll down to psionicpowersgc.xml file. Open with note pad or similar editor. This will show you the AP costs for the aliens to use their psi attacks. Jack all these numbers up to 100 or so (more AP than the aliens have) to disable them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Add another attack type to psionic alien for weakening soldier first. Soldier should be hit several times with this attack to be prone to other attacks.

The same sort of effect could be achieved by having morale as a resist stat.

If a failed psionic attack on a target reduced that targets morale slightly then it could take several attacks to break through their resistance and cause an effect on them.

If they start to lose friends then they would be more vulnerable, if they start to take out enemies they could be less vulnerable.

This would also give the player a chance to try boosting the soldiers morale to keep resistance up, for example by moving them closer to a higher ranked soldier or pushing forward to get a few more kills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you bought game thru Steam, go to Steam\SteamApps\common\Xenonauts\assets then scroll down to psionicpowersgc.xml file. Open with note pad or similar editor. This will show you the AP costs for the aliens to use their psi attacks. Jack all these numbers up to 100 or so (more AP than the aliens have) to disable them
Ah thanks, reaching plasma guns berserking out of thin air just becomes too much

Actually if you go to "aiprops" you can change the psychic powers available to each unit without changing the abilities available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually if you go to "aiprops" you can change the psychic powers available to each unit without changing the abilities available.

Yeah, you can weaken/change/disable/reconfigure the psi abilities either way. I prefer to just shut them down completely. What psionic powers controversy? :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...