Shields and their effect on combat

I don't know if this is do-able.

Could the shield provide a modifier to the armour of the unit using it. A modifier which is related to the health of the shield. The modifier would need to be initially high enough to stop almost all the damage from the first shot it stops.

This method would have 4 benefits.

1. You can still be injured through a shield (likely from a ricochet, or the force of the shield butting you in the face, breaking your arm etc) with the chance of injury going up as the shield degrades. I don't think anyone would complain if they took a few points of HP damage in the first saved shot?

2. Armour piercing will effect the ability of the shield. This nerfs it suitably so its not blanket protection from all Alien weapons.

3. A shield with a health of 1 isn't going to be giving you much protection as its armour modifier will be next to zero. Negating the silly example of 1 HP shield stopping a 100 damage shot.

4. The code already exists for determining the amount of damage done after taking into account armour.

The only issue I can forsee is that it might provide 360 armour modifier which would be a negative of this approach. Can the armour modifier be set to the front 90 cone only?

The modifier would of course be an addition to existing armour protection, so it could degrade independently of personal armour.

Simple solution for the shield issue:

1) Shields no longer fit in bags, meaning you won't be able to switch to fresh shields easily.

2) Shields can no longer be dual wielded, reducing the number of shields that can be brought on a mission per unit.

3) Over-damage is applied to shields.

That seems fair for an item that effectively gives your units extra health from the front, with a chance to block from the sides. The only negative I can see from this is reduced mobility (no longer able to put away shield, jump a wall then re-equip), but I can live with it.

I'm liking the suggestions here. They should lead the shield to be something a little more reasonable and hopefully result in more Xenonaut casualties. Because currently, there are *not* enough deaths even at Veteran.

Yeah, something is wrong if it is harder to kill soldiers than those in the new XCOM

Even in the late game - where number of Xenonauts in combat become similar to the original - winning the mission with only a single (or no!) casualty is quite frequent if not accounting for deaths due to ROS-bugged psi, which quite frankly is balance breaking.

Perhaps getting hit on a shield should make the soldier carrying it suppressed?

If you limit shields so that they cannot be fitted in backpacks, a player may just turn a few of his soldiers into 'Shield Mules', carrying shields on their arms, and keeping weapons in their backpacks until needed.

If you limit shields so that they cannot be fitted in backpacks, a player may just turn a few of his soldiers into 'Shield Mules', carrying shields on their arms, and keeping weapons in their backpacks until needed.

Currently, one of the issues is that shield mules can have their weapons ready to shoot.

At least this way, you'd be limited how many effective shots you can get off. Or you'd force people to go back to the dropship to get additional shields.

No more instant shields mid-combat. No more fire support if shields are going to be available within a few steps.

A shield mule can just carry the weapon in his back, drop the shield and equip his weapon for firing.

As for leaving shields at dropships: Dropship is at position A, you are at position B. As the line between the two is clear, there is no problem in moving as fast as possible between the two points.

I normally use only two shield soldiers myself, as scouts and at ship breaching. While goind through terrain, each shield-man gets a back up. There are two other teams that are more cautious in searching areas because they don't have the same protection, but they all meet up on the ship.

What I don't want to see is shields being made more awkward just to make the game last longer.

A shield mule can just carry the weapon in his back, drop the shield and equip his weapon for firing.

As for leaving shields at dropships: Dropship is at position A, you are at position B. As the line between the two is clear, there is no problem in moving as fast as possible between the two points.

I normally use only two shield soldiers myself, as scouts and at ship breaching. While goind through terrain, each shield-man gets a back up. There are two other teams that are more cautious in searching areas because they don't have the same protection, but they all meet up on the ship.

What I don't want to see is shields being made more awkward just to make the game last longer.

Still means less shots, which is the current issue: With two shield guys that can take up to 6 bursts of fire before being at any risk, you can have six other guys shooting off 12-18 reasonably accurate shots. If you have to drop the shield and switch to your weapon, it becomes 6-12 reasonably accurate shots. It also means that you cannot switch shields mid-combat, which is another current serious issue.

Xenonauts should be dying every mission unless you're extremely lucky. This just isn't the case, as you can easily keep it down to a death every tenth mission. Heck, when I assaulted a base with a ton of shields, I still didn't suffer any casualties despite being up against Androns, with only 8 guys and no improved armour.

Personally, I think shields should be flat-out removed. They were never designed to stop bullets, anymore than a helmet is.

Personally, I think shields should be flat-out removed. They were never designed to stop bullets, anymore than a helmet is.

The smoke grenades have already have a reduced effectiveness. How long before the flash-bangs get dropped from the game as they make it too easy? After all, having a flash-bang go off where you see it is going to suppress you as well.

What's next, decide that a soldier should be out of action the moment that he gets hit? That's real life too.

It seems very weird that you can refit an aircraft with new materials to make it survivable against alien weaponry, but using the same alloys to create a tower shield to hide behind is impossible.

We could just end up playing UFO: Enemy Unknown all over again if items get pruned from the game.

Anyway, if you don't like shields, don't use them. Is anyone using force to make you equip your soldiers with this equipment?

Personally, I think shields should be flat-out removed. They were never designed to stop bullets, anymore than a helmet is.

Apparently these shields were designed to resist plasma though.

Apparently these shields were designed to resist plasma though.

The toughness of these shields could be explained from the Iceland Incident. The hull got vapourised, but droplets fell back down to earth. These droplets were sifted out of the soil and stored away. When the invasion started, this material was used to help reinforce the interceptors and create the combat shields. The material is held in a resin like formation, so degradation happens when the shield gets hit. It's only when Alien Alloys is researched that they get enough information to build body armour as well.

The Shields are made out of the same modified ceramic mix the Jackal vests use for their plates. The advanced Shields are basically slabs of hardened alloy plate with a handle. It makes sense in context.

I would like to mount shields on..

Vehicles

2 in the front, 2 in the rear, 3 each side and the hull carbon fiber to be cheaper, happy days.

Being able to carry an extra shield on the backpack or dual wield them is silly. I don't do it because i don't think it's proper, when they're gone they're gone, they had a purpose, and that's not replacing rocks, crates and other cover props. As they are now, i don't think they're OP.

Also, shield bearers should be able to use shotguns. Just because they're point and shoot, assault shotguns without a grip is silly.

IRL i can easy fire a shotgun with one hand and hit stuff as long as it's not too far, l can't say the same for a rifle.

For fun, saw the barrels a bit, trim the buttock and add some cushion, strap it to your forearm, get used to the kick and there, the perfect home made short range generic point and shoot

What about having shields be not available in the early game? Since shields made with human technology are (as far as I know) not very effective even against human weapons, it stands to reason that a shield capable of stopping alien weaponry would require alien technology and materials to make. Then you could still have your shields, but you would have to spend resources and time making them, which would help offset their OP-ness.

Congratulations, you have just suffered 2 less deaths per mission that by all accounts you should have suffered. This is the exact type of OP I was referring to. (Just in case I am coming across as rude: That's not my intent. I am just of the opinion that X-Com games requires deaths, especially at the veteran and insane level, and shields eliminate this risk almost entirely).

All my shield guys go on missions and usually return unharmed. Sometimes 1 shield less, and it would definitely make shields less OP if they couldn't have one or two backup shields in their backpack, but they are most definitely unharmed and not dead, despite soaking up to 160 damage (which would kill three Xenonauts), and even more shots (due to what appears to be a bug).

If you say so. I've had guys get mowed down in a single 3-shot burst while carrying shields.

What about having shields be not available in the early game? Since shields made with human technology are (as far as I know) not very effective even against human weapons, it stands to reason that a shield capable of stopping alien weaponry would require alien technology and materials to make. Then you could still have your shields, but you would have to spend resources and time making them, which would help offset their OP-ness.

They make shields that can stop rifle rounds, but they are quite heavy and usually require rollers on the bottom.

Before we carry on about 'realism' for the game, remember that the scientists in 'Alien Invasion' games comprehend alien technology that is light years ahead of us within days and the engineers manage to make equivalents. Imagine a modern PC ending up in the hands to the USA in 1940, how long would they take to copy it? The better example would be that Christopher Columbus ending up with a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, and trying to copy it.

Anyway, I saw some V20 play on youtube, and the shields were 200. In V21 they are at 80, and apparently they are to be reduced to 60.

That's true. My point was that making shields equipment that must be researched and produced could help balance them, and that such a change could be easily justified by this game's lore.

Well from a reality standpoint, the real danger of an alien weapon isn't the impact force, but the heat. Regular armor is useless because Kevlar just melts under heat, which then melts through your poor soldiers. Nasty stuff. Jackal Armor uses Ceramic plates that Vaporize away as they dissipate the heat, hence their ability to mitigate the damage. Holding a metal shield in front of you, the metal may be able to survive the heat from one blast, and since your not making contact with the now very hot metal, your not going to burn. With enough fire, The whole thing eventually melts away or distorts significantly enough to be useless. Alien Ceramic armors and shields just fare better because alien materials handle heat so much better.

In a gameplay standpoint, I'm playing around with the one 'reasonable' shield use, which is to make your stun troops not completely suicidal without relying on gas grenades. So I made the shields two handed, and I'm about to see if giving them a stun attack causes any game crashes. If not, I'll just transition over the baton stats and say that a trooper can hold a baton behind it effectively, but the shield is impossible to aim around and keep upright. Maybe raise the weight a bit too if it is still too strong.

Holy wall of text.

I've nothing against game balance with the shields, but removing them is to turn the gamplay into just another X-Com:1994 clone.

If more soldiers get killed because of the changes, that can effect the game on other ways. First, there is hiring cost and delay, so you may end up spending much more money than usual to build up a stock of Redshirts, whose job is to scout and die as meat shields for the more experienced soldiers.

Having recruits around for the purpose of absorbing plasma bolts is more than a little disturbing, so I like the shields in the game.

I am also concerned about lack of lethality in game because I liked old XCOM's formula of minimum 1 causality per mission (unless you happened to be skilled and notably lucky), but that goes into personal preference category and is whole different topic.

You have to take into consideration, in the original XCom you have 14 soldiers AND your living quarters supported 50 units. That allows your troops to be much more expendable.