Morale and Cowards

On my recent play through of V21E6 I have come to suspect that the morale system currently in place is a little bit too punishing.

On my first terror site I went into it fully equipped with laser weapons and wolf armour - against Cas.

Apart from the fact that they surrounded me from turn 2 and started laying down the hurt I was finding that nearly every turn 2 of my Xenonauts would be panicked. They were all rank Major or Captain!

I would expect privates to wilt under fire, but I don't like seeing an experienced Captain or Major panic just because some rounds landed in the same square as them and took off perhaps 20hp.

Anyway the whole mission became a disaster with nearly every one in the squad panicking, even though they outnumbered the enemy and if they had just held onto their weapons would have been fine.

I feel strongly that as you up the ranks the chances of panicking should really drop down. Bezerk yes, but drop your weapon and run away? no.

Also talking of running, why do they always run towards the aliens!??

I've noticed this quite a few times. I had a commander that would panic, berserk, and runaway on occasion. One time he went berserk and shot the private in front of him. Not a very good leader!

Is there any particular trigger for panic etc you think is overpowered, like suppression? The soldier taking damage?

One of my soldiers panicked on a regular map once due to a civilian dying off-screen.

Admittedly, it might be very frightening to hear the blood curdling human screams of people getting blasted with plasma rifles in the distance.

I'm fine with these as long as the same rules apply to aliens too.

I agree broken and fleeing guys should run away from the threat though.

I think suppression is about right at the moment.

However, I think if you've got a Captain or Major in full armour taking 20hp damage (which you would probably liken to a grazing wound) who can then panic or even break then its quite punishing.

Is it possible to change chances of each type of panic action occuring for different ranks? i.e. a new recruit might have equal chances of panicking, breaking, bezerking. Whereas a Lt might have less chance of panicking or breaking but the same chance of bezerking with the probabilities reducing as you go up the ranks?

I can't remember if its still included or not but do soldiers gain morale from having others in close proximity. If so could that proximity be increased slightly so that guys who are still in mutually supporting positions still count towards it even if by a lesser degree?

Also is there a chain affect to panic. I.e does having a panicked soldier in close proximity increase a guys chances of panicking? Maybe that needs to be toned down a little.

I don't like the way berzerking is implemented. Soldiers wheeling around to shoot their comrades in the face doesn't make any sense. It would be better if they only shot at aliens, and if no aliens are available to shoot at, they take shots towards black fog or somewhere where an alien MIGHT be.

Is there any particular trigger for panic etc you think is overpowered, like suppression? The soldier taking damage?[/QUote]

I've had guys, including a major with full morale (50/50), panic from an alien shooting at another group of my guys 10 tiles away. I agree with Kate about the berserking too. I never understood why a soldier would freak out so bad he would turn and shoot the guy right next to him. I always thought that was cheap shot.

OK, I'll update the values a bit to make panic somewhat less likely.

Bezerking prioritises aliens first now, rather than the closest units like it used to. I don't want to remove the friendly fire chance entirely, though.

Yeah, very strong panicking going on, even with full "blue" morale soldiers. Like, they get off the ship, first alien they see shoots and hits them (in the shield, no damage) one time and they panic like 50% of the time, especially if they were suppressed. That has to be rebalanced back a bit, though before the blue bar was basically ignorable unless shit really hit the fan, which might not have been the best balance either.

just a thought i had from this thread, what if you had the option to execute on the field a soldier that is panicing/berzerking in order to "realign" the soldiers morale in GC? That would be very Soviet Unionish

Just a thought anyway, could make an interesting mod.

Yeah, very strong panicking going on, even with full "blue" morale soldiers.

I may well be wrong about this, but I *think* it's because the panic check is made before a soldier regains morale for the turn. Since morale recovery is something like 50%/turn (or some similarly fairly high value), a soldier might be reduced to, say, half morale, panic, then recover to full.

As I say, I may well be wrong, but this would seem to offer an explanation.

That's a huge loss to just getting shot at and suppressed then. Are these soldiers or what?

That's a huge loss to just getting shot at and suppressed then. Are these soldiers or what?

Again, not 100% sure about this, but I think *any* morale damage can cause panic (but more damage increases the likelihood).

(I may well be wrong about this. I could have sworn I read it here somewhat recently, but can't find the thread now and can't check the game files for confirmation).

So it's not so much soldiers being cowards to much as soldiers being occassionally very jumpy, or something. (Not defending the current system per se, just trying to offer an explanation.)

So previously the soldiers had a 2% panic chance for each morale point below 40. This is now a 3% panic chance each point below 30.

There's no chain panic chance, but soldiers lose 0.25 morale for each point of suppression they take and 0.5 for each point of injury. Remember, a successful hit will apply both and alien weapons got a suppression buff recently. The morale suppression damage may be a bit high.

So previously the soldiers had a 2% panic chance for each morale point below 40. This is now a 3% panic chance each point below 30.

There's no chain panic chance, but soldiers lose 0.25 morale for each point of suppression they take and 0.5 for each point of injury. Remember, a successful hit will apply both and alien weapons got a suppression buff recently. The morale suppression damage may be a bit high.

Ah, completely wrong I see (not sure where I got the idea that any morale damage could cause panic from)! Thanks for clarrifying.

Part of the problenm is I don't think the fractional scores (when whole) are taken off the bar, so we don't see things like wounds/suppression take effect. Also I'm pretty sure that bravery shouldn't exceed the maximum for the solider, but it routinely will go up to 99.

Part of the problenm is I don't think the fractional scores (when whole) are taken off the bar, so we don't see things like wounds/suppression take effect. Also I'm pretty sure that bravery shouldn't exceed the maximum for the solider, but it routinely will go up to 99.

I always assumed this was a result of the buff soldiers get for high-ranking officers and being close to other friendly units. I never really kept track of it, though, so it could be from anything I guess.

Yeah, the officer and safety in numbers buffs etc stack on top of the basic morale stat.

Getting down below 40 morale in the previous build isn't too unlikely, which means you can just be unlucky and have experienced soldiers panic occasionally in pretty innocuous situations. Hence lowering the threshold down to 30 for the next build.

One problem I have had is when an alien is standing right out the back door of my ship at the start of ground combat... or more than one alien. There are other similar situations that can pop up but this is the easiest to describe.

If I shoot or walk and take reaction fire I can end up with my ENTIRE squad suppressed. This seems a bit too extreme. Sounds like the morale thresholds could help but maybe the benefit of nearby soldiers needs to be buffed... or a maximum number of panics per round could be implemented. Or just don't let aliens start so close. Anyways it doesn't happen often but its a mission killer for me when it does.

I'm finding it a bit silly that my troops are panicking and fleeing without having seen, gotten shot at or by, or fired at any aliens.

Civilians are dying off-screen and my troops are scared shitless. Maps without civilians are now not only easier because you don't have to keep them alive, but their deaths in maps that do have them can leave your troops frightened.

This probably explains why terror missions have higher than usual cowardice problems?

On a bravery related note, what is the intended behaviour of fleeing xenonauts?

I ask, because my Xenonauts with a pistol and shield are dropping their shield and then fleeing in a random direction, but they're not dropping the pistol they have in their primary weapon slot.

IMO xenonauts morale shouldn't be lowered from civilian casualties. They are just bystanders and trained soldiers should be used to seeing deaths. It is different from having your own comrades dying around you and feeling like you are losing the battle.

Really weird thing happened last mission: had a guy standing behind a house, nowhere near combat, panic out of nowhere on a terror mission. Definitely good this is getting tweaked.

I've had that happen to me, but I was able to trace it back to some civvies who had died, which dropped my soliders score below the threshold for checks. The game doesn't properly represent your bravery score on the UI. It tracks it internally, so if you have someone wig out and it doesn't look likt it should have, that's probably why.