Initial line of sight

What has always confused me is the fact that upon arrival onto a mission there is no initial vision of the landscape. One would imagine that Charlie would due a fly-about of the crash zone to give the landing crew a chance to become familiar with the LZ, perhaps even a chance to lay down some machine gun fire on any visible extra terrestrials.

How does everyone else feel about this?

it's an x-com thing.

on a mission you are venturing into the great unknown; enemys and their whereabouts, landscape, ufo location, etc.

and with everything other then ufo size, terrain type, and terrain size. Fear and the unexpected happenings.

"oh Crap, oh crap, where are they?"

brings rise to caution or crazy x-com experiences. it's part of what makes the game so fun..

if we were given even a little bit of the terrain ahead of time then we would be able to make immediate decisions on whats the safest route so far.... less scary

this is a case where game play takes precedents over realism.

it's an x-com thing.

on a mission you are venturing into the great unknown; enemys and their whereabouts, landscape, ufo location, etc.

and with everything other then ufo size, terrain type, and terrain size. Fear and the unexpected happenings.

"oh Crap, oh crap, where are they?"

brings rise to caution or crazy x-com experiences. it's part of what makes the game so fun..

if we were given even a little bit of the terrain ahead of time then we would be able to make immediate decisions on whats the safest route so far.... less scary

this is a case where game play takes precedents over realism.

Well said, it what makes x-com and Xenonants fun and at the same time sometimes crazy.

it's an x-com thing.

on a mission you are venturing into the great unknown; enemys and their whereabouts, landscape, ufo location, etc.

and with everything other then ufo size, terrain type, and terrain size. Fear and the unexpected happenings.

"oh Crap, oh crap, where are they?"

brings rise to caution or crazy x-com experiences. it's part of what makes the game so fun..

if we were given even a little bit of the terrain ahead of time then we would be able to make immediate decisions on whats the safest route so far.... less scary

this is a case where game play takes precedents over realism.

You know, unless you've played on that map before. And the player knows the layout of the map, the alien spawn points, the location of the crash, the size of the crash, the number of aliens, and the approximate armament of the aliens. Really, when I start a mission my only question tends to be "I wonder which alien races I'll be fighting." Really, that mechanic just means that experienced players have yet another advantage over inexperienced players.

If the developers wanted, I'm sure they could get something in to allow the map to be revealed without taking away the "real" questions, I.E. revealing terrain and buildings but not the UFO itself.

You know, unless you've played on that map before. And the player knows the layout of the map, the alien spawn points, the location of the crash, the size of the crash, the number of aliens, and the approximate armament of the aliens. Really, when I start a mission my only question tends to be "I wonder which alien races I'll be fighting." Really, that mechanic just means that experienced players have yet another advantage over inexperienced players.

If the developers wanted, I'm sure they could get something in to allow the map to be revealed without taking away the "real" questions, I.E. revealing terrain and buildings but not the UFO itself.

Revealing the map doesnt change or counter any issues, what it does is make it feel more repetetive for the experienced player and diminish the experience/atmosphere/feel for the inexperienced player.

Revealing the map doesnt change or counter any issues, what it does is make it feel more repetetive for the experienced player and diminish the experience/atmosphere/feel for the inexperienced player.

For realism sake we could also say that the choppa cannot fly around the area what with plasma armed aliens tacking potshots at it and the pilot could be flying by radar to avoid getting snipped by horny horny harridans while looking out windows.

Apparently the Xenonauts have no knowledge of maps or aerial photography and the choppa pilots are blind...nonetheless they carry on bravely in the face of impossible odds.

Apparently the Xenonauts have no knowledge of maps or aerial photography and the choppa pilots are blind...nonetheless they carry on bravely in the face of impossible odds.

Detailed maps for every inch of the world simply did not exist back then and whatever satellites they may have had were likely shot down by the first wave of UFOs (aerial photography would work if, again, you weren't in a conflict zone facing foes with technology far more advanced than your own) but I will give you the point that the maps should be vaguely silhouetted (or more sharply depending on where in the world you are) not black.

I always thought it might be interesting for satellite capability to be something that could be restored during a game, research of stealth sats or the like. Then you could select an orbital track for them to 'patrol' and you'd see the orbit overlayed on the geoscape.

Of course, my design for a X-COM-like game is stupidly ambitious and massively over-reaching. Building orbital infrastructure to intercept aliens outside the atmosphere (for a given definition of atmosphere) that you then need to protect from sabotage, lunar bases (the same)... gradually moving the fight away from Earth until you attack the aliens on their own ground.

I maintain it's not impossible though. I just have to become rich and famous so I can convince people. You guys are convinced already of course. (Right?)

I always thought it might be interesting for satellite capability to be something that could be restored during a game, research of stealth sats or the like. Then you could select an orbital track for them to 'patrol' and you'd see the orbit overlayed on the geoscape.

Of course, my design for a X-COM-like game is stupidly ambitious and massively over-reaching. Building orbital infrastructure to intercept aliens outside the atmosphere (for a given definition of atmosphere) that you then need to protect from sabotage, lunar bases (the same)... gradually moving the fight away from Earth until you attack the aliens on their own ground.

I maintain it's not impossible though. I just have to become rich and famous so I can convince people. You guys are convinced already of course. (Right?)

Stealth satellites would work as a concept if the aliens did not have either advanced sensors able to pick up something reflecting solar radiation in a consistent way ( do not talk about absorbing it, you'd fry your satellite to a crisp trying to do it) or gravity well detection systems (which they also do, FTLs, remember?) because anything with mass has a gravity well and your spy satellite would have a consistent signature on those sensors moving in a stable orbit at a stable speed.

(Right?)

Nope.

Stealth satellites would work as a concept if the aliens did not have either advanced sensors able to pick up something reflecting solar radiation in a consistent way ( do not talk about absorbing it, you'd fry your satellite to a crisp trying to do it) or gravity well detection systems (which they also do, FTLs, remember?) because anything with mass has a gravity well and your spy satellite would have a consistent signature on those sensors moving in a stable orbit at a stable speed.

Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to hide it in an asteroid (that you then manipulate into orbit around earth instead of where you found it) or send up a decoy satelite that they trash then hide the functioning satelite inside of the "corpse" of the decoy?

Or you have it hide in blind spots of their detection systems, or act like space junk (of which there will be lots if we're going for realism, or even just because they blew the existing satellites up when they first arrived. I doubt they'd take time to clean up afterwards). Stealth in Space is a very difficult thing to argue, but it isn't impossible. Or rather, 'stealth' is impossible, but not being noticed isn't.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php#nostealth

So, yeah, no way to 'stealth' anything, but just because you can be seen doesn't been you're worth paying attention to. But something designed to be 'unnoticeable' will probably end p being termed 'stealth' for the simplicity it evokes in people you'd otherwise have to educate.

Edit: I'd be pretty solid on the idea that you'd need extensive research of the alien detection systems before you could design a satellite that could possibly remain undetected, just to point out.

Detailed maps for every inch of the world simply did not exist back then and whatever satellites they may have had were likely shot down by the first wave of UFOs (aerial photography would work if, again, you weren't in a conflict zone facing foes with technology far more advanced than your own) but I will give you the point that the maps should be vaguely silhouetted (or more sharply depending on where in the world you are) not black.

They had SR-71's, U2's, and satellites in the late 70's. They could produced very high resolution photos from a great distance. There is no reason why a snapshot couldn't be produced and transmitted to the Xenonauts before landing.

satelite not in position?

satelite not in position?

Are those planes? so they send out planes to take pictures before sending a team out to something that requires a rapid response...

I think I've missed something here.

Are those planes? so they send out planes to take pictures before sending a team out to something that requires a rapid response...

I think I've missed something here.

http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?31978-quot-ASPEN-20-quot-%96-SR-71-%96-Groundspeed-Check

http://gizmodo.com/5511236/the-thrill-of-flying-the-sr+71-blackbird

I grew up idolising that aircraft.

Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to hide it in an asteroid (that you then manipulate into orbit around earth instead of where you found it) or send up a decoy satelite that they trash then hide the functioning satelite inside of the "corpse" of the decoy?

Three problems: 1) You have to launch the satellite on a big rocket (that's gonna be seen); 2) with the decoy corpse asteroid thing you'd need to position a satellite within a dead satellite's debris ring, that's beyond remote operations level of accuracy and you'd still have to find a way to transmit information from it to the ground without detection (once or twice might escape notice but I doubt they wouldn't keep tabs on what going on in orbit); 3) the asteroid idea would just give the aliens something to chuck at a Xenonaut base and kill two birds with one proverbial stone.

Or you have it hide in blind spots of their detection systems, or act like space junk (of which there will be lots if we're going for realism, or even just because they blew the existing satellites up when they first arrived. I doubt they'd take time to clean up afterwards). Stealth in Space is a very difficult thing to argue, but it isn't impossible. Or rather, 'stealth' is impossible, but not being noticed isn't.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacewardetect.php#nostealth

So, yeah, no way to 'stealth' anything, but just because you can be seen doesn't been you're worth paying attention to. But something designed to be 'unnoticeable' will probably end p being termed 'stealth' for the simplicity it evokes in people you'd otherwise have to educate.

Edit: I'd be pretty solid on the idea that you'd need extensive research of the alien detection systems before you could design a satellite that could possibly remain undetected, just to point out.

The detection system wouldn't be the only thing dicking around what with all those scout UFOs making sorties to keep tab on the human forces and the various other kinds of UFOs that go in and out of the atmosphere for various reasons.

Space junk cloaking works as an idea... but you still have something most junk doesn't: A low intensity EM field which would be spotted as active electronics even if you only pulse it you'd still need to position the damn thing over where you want pictures to be taken.

Stealth in space is pretty much impossible unless the opponent isn't actively looking for you, considering this is a planetary invasion with the view of occupying it (not glassing the fuck out of it) it's pretty safe to assume that anything we'd send up would come right back down, probably with allot of plasma scorch marks.

Wouldn't mind the chopper being "transparent", myself, or at least, if your soldiers could look out the windows. No need to be able to shoot through, your troops should be fairly safe one inside the chopper, but I would definitely want to be able to look around without having to move troops outside.

The guys inside the SkyRanger had some view to the outside in the OG. You could at least see anyone right by ship when you landed. A "real" Chinook has a lot of windows. We should probably have nearly 360 degrees of sight from the inside of the chopper on landing.