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How to, IMHO, make this game even better


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Hi everybody

My first post here. I pre-ordered the game a few weeks ago and think the game has a HUGE potential. I didn’t play it a very long time yet, so I know my opinion is sometimes just impressions and not facts.

I’m an UFO-Enemy Unknow fan and have played most remake-followers, so please bear with my typicall « it was better in the old time »

First, the good points:

  • « TU » mechanism intact (greatest disapointment with Firaxis XCOM).
  • HD graphics (already tried to play XCOM 94 on a 1920x1080 screen ?).
  • User-Interface is clean and neat, not the « sexiest » thing I have ever seen, but functional and easy to learn.
  • A game for the fan by the fan. Crowdfunded. No producers/publisher(?), no console downgrading (interface). One word to sumarise it : « passion ».

Now, the things that could be improved (IMHO)

  • No 3D ? I’m not asking for CryEngine implementation, I love the « old » Isometric 3D, but with the possibility to see the battlefield from north, east, south and west. Same isometric/sprite principle as already in the game now. I find it very disturbing sometimes not to see aliens and soldiers when behind some walls/objects. Manipulating them (med., grenade) is also very hard in those situations.
  • The maps are very boring : empty and always the same, especially buildings and alien spaceships ! Is a user map editor planned ? This way the community could create a huge amount of original maps and share them with other players.
  • Is there a « giant » final mission ? Must have too (also a great disapointment in Firaxis XCOM) !
  • Probably only a difficulty balance problem, but my guys need about 20 shots to hit something… this is frustrating. I would prefer them to hit 80-90% of the time, but with less damage if you really need this to balance the game difficulty against a weak AI.
  • Aliens are very static. Mostly they do nothing, just stand around (and shoot at you when you come near them). It would be more interesting to have them do something, going from A to B, scanning buildings, hunting you... like the human player.
  • Interception : Foxtrot has 2 torpedo (or sidewinder) and nothing more ? Both missile will nearly always miss even the slowest smallest alien ship. I don’t like this kind of difficuly. In autoresolve mode a Foxtrot has no chance against even the smallest alien ship. Is this normal ??
  • Screens graphic style (for example « enemy movement » picture or initial main game menu) are … not very nice. The overall feeling is weird and kind of childish. I found the original UFO had much more « graphical personality and harmony ». Too late to change that ? Perhaps at least a few « enemy movement/turn » pictures (displayed randomly) ? I can’t watch this picture anymore. I hate it. Sorry.
  • Sounds (and music) are not good (yet ?). Not enough ambiance music , not enough immersion and tension. The alien screams (and sounds) are laughable… at best.
  • Another very personal opinion here : I always find it quit dissapointing when seeing the mission end summary screen. Don’t know why, but I remember this screen was much more rewarding after a very difficult mission in the original game. Need perhaps more info, more « loot » ?
  • You are developping the game way too slowly !! Just kidding, take your time, do it right ! :D

I understand this is not a AAA product with billions $ funding and unlimited talent resources. Just saying what I think, IMHO, should/could be improved to make this game the best possible. I pre-ordered Xenonauts knowing it was not perfect (and it won’t be at release). No complain here, just constructive thinking/sharing !

P.S. No, I’m not a 7 year old dyslexic, english is just not my mother tongue.

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I get the impression the devs would like to magically change which engine the game runs on as much as any of us do. Unfortunately, it is what it is, so we won't be able to rotate the map.

There's already a map editor, we can create more maps for the game right now.

The interface is going to be worked on. I agree that some things (like the mirrored guy-at-a-workstation underneath the geoscape map) look like placeholders, and hopefully, that's because they are!

There's a final mission, but I think it's a work in progress.

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I don't think the map rotation feature would need magic, just some additional development ;-)

I am myself a Software Engineer and understand the complexity such a new feature could represent, but, if the actual engine is very well programmed and enough modular it could be done... with some additional development. Of course it's late for this, but perhaps in the next version !

I indeed just found the map editor : http://xenowiki.goldhawkinteractive.com/index.php?title=Mapping:_Creating_new_in-game_battlefields

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I don't think the map rotation feature would need magic, just some additional development ;-)

I am myself a Software Engineer and understand the complexity such a new feature could represent, but, if the actual engine is very well programmed and enough modular it could be done... with some additional development. Of course it's late for this, but perhaps in the next version !

I indeed just found the map editor : http://xenowiki.goldhawkinteractive.com/index.php?title=Mapping:_Creating_new_in-game_battlefields

That's the thing, though. It's not that well-programmed or modular. The devs have been working on the out-of-date, unsupported-for-nearly-a-decade engine used for Diner Dash since the work began.

They're working under a pretty low ceiling.

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Thanks for the suggestion. It's too late to change a lot of what you've said, but we are working on some of it. The AI gets more aggressive later in the game, but early missions do need to be improved a bit.

The original X-Com didn't allow the player to rotate the view, though - it means that every single sprite in the game needs to have 4 different views, which quadruples the amount of art you need to do compared to a single view (though admittedly many props will have 4 variants already). A full 3D engine would work much better in terms of rotate-ability, but sadly it's too late to change now. Something to bear in mind for the future though!

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Thanks for the suggestion. It's too late to change a lot of what you've said, but we are working on some of it. The AI gets more aggressive later in the game, but early missions do need to be improved a bit.

The original X-Com didn't allow the player to rotate the view, though - it means that every single sprite in the game needs to have 4 different views, which quadruples the amount of art you need to do compared to a single view (though admittedly many props will have 4 variants already). A full 3D engine would work much better in terms of rotate-ability, but sadly it's too late to change now. Something to bear in mind for the future though!

Well you don't need to rotate the view necessarily. The Problem is in the Moment that it's currently nearly impossible to shoot at something that is not an enemy when it is behind a fence or something. It will just select the fence and there's pretty much no way to select what's behind it.

For example i had an alien hide behind this giant gas tank. Now in those situations when you're not too concerned about the alien equipment you can shoot at the gas tank, which then explodes and kills the enemy. But the gas tank was behind a fence, so i just could not aim at the gas tank directly.

I pretty simple Solution would be to allow me to scroll through every object that is on that 2D tile.

Also maybe allow a wall to become see-through by aiming your mouse at them, not only by having a soldier stand there. That would make it much easier to just get the soldier there in the first place.

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Thanks for the suggestion. It's too late to change a lot of what you've said, but we are working on some of it. The AI gets more aggressive later in the game, but early missions do need to be improved a bit.

The original X-Com didn't allow the player to rotate the view, though - it means that every single sprite in the game needs to have 4 different views, which quadruples the amount of art you need to do compared to a single view (though admittedly many props will have 4 variants already). A full 3D engine would work much better in terms of rotate-ability, but sadly it's too late to change now. Something to bear in mind for the future though!

Thanks for answering me !! That alone is worth my money ;)

OK, I understand that it is not possible anymore to change the rotation ... too bad, but I have to agree with Amaror, it is definitively not a necessary feature, as long as you can interact with objects behind walls/fences.

As for the music, well, the majority (in this thread) seem to think that in the contrary it is quit good. You apparently can't satisfy everybody about taste. I bow to that.

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Thanks for answering me !! That alone is worth my money ;)

OK, I understand that it is not possible anymore to change the rotation ... too bad, but I have to agree with Amaror, it is definitively not a necessary feature, as long as you can interact with objects behind walls/fences.

As for the music, well, the majority (in this thread) seem to think that in the contrary it is quit good. You apparently can't satisfy everybody about taste. I bow to that.

Who are you and what have you done to my internet? :eek:

This kind of reasonable and level-headed response after being told you can't have what you want is scary. ;)

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I joined not because I know anything about Xenonauts, but because I want to thank Papadragon666 for being such a reasonable fan. For not joining so many other hateful angry fans, but stepping up and doing something good. You give hope to an industry filled with hate. Thanks PapaDragon666. I've said my peace.

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I have to say that I think the lovingly drawn 2d graphics in Xenonauts are way better than the bland 3d graphics in the new Xcom. I'd also disagree with the idea of "upping to hit % to 80-90 with each hit doing less damage". Half the tension and drama of Xcom 94 was the idea of one hit kills (for both you and the xenos) in the first few months of the game.

I'd actually say damage is too low at the moment with my rookie grunts shrugging off two laser blasts on their first mission.

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I haven't bought the early-access game but from what I gather from the forums/preview/screenshots, me'thinks the game needs (these could already be in the game, ignore if so):

1) Lethal melee weapons :- not stun batons, because sometimes it's better to stab aliens to death

2) Interceptors (crews?) that get better with more missions under their belts :- lower 'evade' cooldowns & better accuracy, something like X = round(Base Value/GPA for number of missions). Not really a separate XP system that way.

Edited by JonathanYu
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I haven't bought the early-access game but from what I gather from the forums/preview/screenshots, me'thinks the game needs (these could already be in the game, ignore if so):

1) Lethal melee weapons :- not stun batons, because sometimes it's better to stab aliens to death

2) Interceptors (crews?) that get better with more missions under their belts :- lower 'evade' cooldowns & better accuracy, something like X = round(Base Value/GPA for number of missions). Not really a separate XP system that way.

1) why? how would that be balanced compared to ranged weapons. How much damage would it do and how much would it cost to use? What damage could you possibly do agains say androns with a sword for example?

2: it's impossible to make any accuracy get better afaik. and quite frankly it complicates the balance of the airbattle too much. It's something that seems cool on paper but is just a hassle in practicality. It has been suggested again and again and Chris England has maede it clear that he is not interested in including it.

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1) High damage to organics/meatbags. Moderate~high damage to Androns. IIRC, the website states that they have low situational awareness so a soldier could conceivably get round and stab them in the spine/cables. It wouldn't unbalance the game as melee attacks are inherently hard to pull-off, this is especially true after having bought & played v19 release. I've found that all the aliens do is camp around their downed ship and reaction fire multiple times per turn at my troops. Seriously, they don't even TRY to attack, no initiative at all. Plays like turn-based isometric-view n00b-server Counter-strike.

2) Sad news. Every game in this genre seem to have faceless/nameless/drone pilots (Firaxis' Xcom had pilot portraits/radio chatter but zero gameplay effect and lame air combat). Nobody cares if they live or die aside from the monetary impact of losing the machines.

Edited by JonathanYu
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Regarding melee weapons - I'd point out the stun baton already exists to show you what melee does in practical terms.

Although a basic knife would be kind of silly, if we're dealing with plasma weapons, a plasma torch/plasmathrower makes a pretty good weapon against even armored enemies, and would be easier to make (research) than proper plasma guns that demand keeping stable magnetic fields around the plasma past the muzzle of the weapon, so you could research it earlier.

As for the interceptors, themselves, I think having a pilot portrait without the accuracy bonuses would be a fair idea. We already have mission and kill counters - if the artwork wouldn't be overwhelming for the artists, why not include (gameplay-meaningless) medals for them, as well?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Love both the music and the artwork (the latter reminds me of World in Conflict's art approach, which, incidentally, also received mixed reviews :P ), personally. I suppose it's a matter of taste. Mostly agree with you on the sounds, though, and yes, it is difficult to target enemies behind walls, you mostly have to aim for their heads, but even then it's difficult to hit the right pixels to get the crosshairs to "lock on".

My personal biggest problem is that the aliens don't look very scary/menacing at all, but that's been brought up already.

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+1 for the music, I think it's perfect. Subtle, moody and low key, just like the original.

Concerning the melee weapons, I'm assuming he means like the ones on TFTD. They were big rotating drills, and were the only effective way to kill lobstermen on the higher difficulties (if you were lucky enough to get a calcinite).

They would chew through any foe you threw at them, IF you could get close enough....(loved the tension it created)

Hell, +1 for melee weapons also.

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I joined not because I know anything about Xenonauts, but because I want to thank Papadragon666 for being such a reasonable fan. For not joining so many other hateful angry fans, but stepping up and doing something good. You give hope to an industry filled with hate. Thanks PapaDragon666. I've said my peace.

Oh no, i missed that !

I was away for some time and was quit surprised to see my thread still active and people praising me... :o

Well, I don't like to argue (too much) on forums. I don't think an angry argument ever convinced a developper to change his game.

I just wanted to give my input, my "gut-feeling", to help tune the little details that can makes the big difference in the end.

Great to know it is appreciated !

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