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Hmmm.... "make aliens avoid gas" added to GJs list. :)

Well remember some of the aliens used to come out of UFO doors? I've had that once in ages now. Aliens with a sense of purpose would be interesting. Obviously, I will immediately post about being overrun by aggressive aliens, but having them stand around the hangers in a Base attack mission waiting for me, seems to defeat the purpose of their mission.

I've now modded in a Xenonaut tour guide to help visitors to the base find their way around. First stop... the incinerator.

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I dont see the problem people have with the stun baton

Its pretty damn sweet

Sure its melee, but I never had it fail to stun anything (im not too far into the game yet tho.. at least i think so)

Its especially good on your scouts when reapers show up, since they run into melee anyway

Must have in Terror missions for me

Another thing is the Shotgun

I love to get close to stuff and blow em up

But truth is, a Rifle burst is far stronger than 2 Shotgun hits, seems more precise up close and enjoys longer range

The Rifle is superior in any way.

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That's interesting. Does that work in practice. I feel that I'd get thumped by not softening them up with missiles first. I guess your air combat is a bit more involved than mine, constantly trying to get behind them to use the cannons.

Yeah - most of my air combat involves kiting with unengaged craft attacking from behind (there's no way I'd be relying on cannons for a head on attack!). A lot of this is because I very much want the air battles to feel like a dog-fight, which sadly they don't (even when I make an effort to try and make them so!). But I also had an initial poor experience using torpedoes, which put me off using them until recently. So it was pretty much the only way to safely win air battles.

I've modded in a selection of magazines for the Xenonauts to read while waiting for the stun grenades to kick in. It's not as if the aliens ever do anything. Nor does time have any meaning in the missions, for that matter.

Sadly not quite my experience. I have two soldiers in medbay and one in the morgue waiting for gas to kick in (although, in fairness, this was largely prompted by one of my soldiers being shot through a wall and a terrible chain of events following).

One other thing that I've not been using recently: labs. My first two games I built a lab quickly and ended up blitzing tech, so I ended up with a lot of idle time. In a new game with 19.4, I've stuck with just the starting lab and 15 scientists and have finished all the tech that can be researched in the first two months comfortably (indeed, my scientists were idle for a few days both months having completed, so far as I know, all the research I could do owing to the hard limits on captured tech).

I assume as the game goes on more scientists are needed to keep pace, but I'm seeing no advantage at the moment to an early research-heavy strategy, as it's (too) easy to keep pace without any expansion and the limiting factor is actually the rate at which you capture alien tech, not the rate at which you study it. Not only is there no trade-off in terms of developing science vs. something else, but there's also no trade-off in terms of *what* you research, since it's easy to get it all done in time (and simple enough to prioritise projects that lead to manufacturing, once you know what they are, to ensure maximum production time).

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Thanks for the feedback guys, this sort of thing is very useful. I am going to give the vehicles a bit of a buff for the next version - more armour, and additional hit points for the later tiers; do remember the heavy plasma rifle is one of the more powerful alien weapons, so it probably would be quite deadly.

Question: If I removed the sight range penalty from the other armours, do you think the weight penalty of using the heavier ones would still balance out against the lighter armours? I don't want every squad to just be equipped with the heaviest armour all the time, but it's also clear they need to justify the cost of building.

Could there not be other effects of armour on soldiers besides vision range?

How about a hit on timeunits (say 5-10%) to show its bulkiness or not being able to kneel. Both are maybe somewhat less crippling than reduced vision range in a game with universal squad size.

Leo

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I very much want the air battles to feel like a dog-fight, which sadly they don't (even when I make an effort to try and make them so!). But I also had an initial poor experience using torpedoes, which put me off using them until recently. So it was pretty much the only way to safely win air battles.

You know I never even thought about Xenonauts as a dogfight type thing. But to it's credit, at least it's versatile enough to accommodate that a bit. Getting used to pausing, missile lock, evading etc takes a bit of time (and forum searching), but I'm avoiding anything dogfighty until corvettes (and that's due to not having enough firepower).

Sadly not quite my experience. I have two soldiers in medbay and one in the morgue waiting for gas to kick in (although, in fairness, this was largely prompted by one of my soldiers being shot through a wall and a terrible chain of events following).

If you're attacking an alien base, then yes, the bugs will get you. Otherwise a bit of caution (sending in sheild soldier first to scout/draw fire then following up) works well.

One other thing that I've not been using recently: labs. My first two games I built a lab quickly and ended up blitzing tech, so I ended up with a lot of idle time. In a new game with 19.4, I've stuck with just the starting lab and 15 scientists and have finished all the tech that can be researched in the first two months comfortably (indeed, my scientists were idle for a few days both months having completed, so far as I know, all the research I could do owing to the hard limits on captured tech).

I assume as the game goes on more scientists are needed to keep pace, but I'm seeing no advantage at the moment to an early research-heavy strategy, as it's (too) easy to keep pace without any expansion and the limiting factor is actually the rate at which you capture alien tech, not the rate at which you study it.

My feeling matches yours. Certain research items are only started once you have captured certain items. Those items will only turn up at certain ticker points (when certain ships appear for example). With no direct link that constantly pushes research forward (you have to wait around for the ships) there's no point at all in having two labs at present.

I didn't put it on the not using list, as I do still use a lab, and I do still max it out. But it's a very good point.

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Right now, I don't think weight alone would be enough of a negative to heavier armor, but between being moderately more expensive and less mobility (no jumpjets) they should be pretty close to balanced. I wouldn't mind seeing an increased TU cost for movement (20-50% more expensive movement) for heavy armor in place of the vision penalty.

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To me it comes down to the economic term "Opportunity Cost"

Armor as is already comes with the costs of Time to make, cost per unit, materials (if needed), and the techs needed to make it.

Basic weight of armor is also just a given with the cost of other equipment not able to be carried.

Adding a vision cost seems like overkill in my thoughts. Now as for Jackal vrs Wolf vrs Buzzard for example..

Jackal vrs Wolf is already covered in the above. Wolf requires more base tech, requires more per unit, requires more time per unit, and if I am correct also require materials. The opportunity cost is already payed there. Vision is just adding to an already large overhead of costs.

Wolf vrs Buzzard could make the argument of additional costs for additional abilities. In this case the hypothetical ability to fly (granted I have yet to find a case where flying or even quick hopping a roof was worth the use.) so an additional cost would be justified if Buzzard provides equal protection to Wolf. If the protection of buzzard is less than wolf then the cost is paid for flight ability there.

Wolf vrs ?. Can't remember the name of the set that provides the ability to stomp through walls. But mabey a vision there.... then again that suit already has costs involved with weapon limitations if I remember correctly. I just know I read the offsets for it and decided it wasn't needed or wanted where I was at in my games. The cost was just to much.

But Ultimately no armor should be a very rare exception for a soldier. Least for a advanced unit like Xeno's. Any commander isn't going to send unarmored troops into a conflict unless the mission parameters make a good reason for it or access to it isn't possible. also in combat, Mobility, Fire Power, And Battlefield Awareness are critical. I just think vision reduction is a game where we already have incredible short lines of sight as is due to map and engine limitations is going to far.

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But Ultimately no armor should be a very rare exception for a soldier. Least for a advanced unit like Xeno's. Any commander isn't going to send unarmored troops into a conflict unless the mission parameters make a good reason for it or access to it isn't possible. also in combat, Mobility, Fire Power, And Battlefield Awareness are critical. I just think vision reduction is a game where we already have incredible short lines of sight as is due to map and engine limitations is going to far.

Seems legit.

Vision reduction isn't the way to balance out armor; you're penalizing the player for spending the time and money necessary to make the armor. We can, and in fact, should, have minuses in the geoscape give us plusses in the ground combat. We don't need minuses in the geoscape to give us a bit of a plus, but more of a minus in the ground combat. Personally, I'd rather see the alien and avoid it then risk taking a shot to the chest, armor or no armor. Making armor with a vision reduction means that the player is trading the ability to avoid fire with the ability to be shot and survive. However, how often do you get shot and take no damage, even with armor? Rarely, in my experience. However, when seeing the alien earlier and avoiding running into them, you take no damage at all. So, in the ground combat, no armor is better than armor oftentimes at keeping the soldier safe from harm. This makes no sense, especially since the armor already penalizes the player in that it costs money and time to make.

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Ha, there's been quite a discussion on that point, though I'm fairly sure it's an LMG. It fires the same rounds as the rifles, I thought. Although, I suppose it might fire the 7.62 NATO rounds. Hmm... Either way, it's too small and portable to be classified as an MMG. No one man could tote an MMG around like they do the machine gun in the game.

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I have a shieldmaiden (hehe) in my squad, sword and board (baton and shield) style. Perfect for capturing of aliens and can survive one attack from suppressed enemy and finish him off. 70-80 dmg/hit is a lot when you have like 80 TUS.

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