V18.3 Geoscape Balance Discussion

This is the thread for discussion of and balance suggestions for the strategy layer for Build V18.3. Please ensure you have Hotfix 1 from this thread before taking part: http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/4744-Build-V18-3-Hotfix-1-Released%21

Please repost any opinions from the V18 thread here if they are still valid.

Is Wolf meant to come after Alloy Fab? Because I can only get the topic after both Alloy Fab and Alien Plasma Tech.

Yes. You think it'd make more sense to split out Plasma Tech into giving you the Wolf and Alloy Fab into the Lasers (or vice versa)?

I was just wondering since the Xenopedia description suggests that it'd give armour, when you actually need to understand alien plasma tech before you can start researching T2 armour.

Its an either/or thing. With the increased research times being able to 'rush' armour would be nice (which is what I usually try to do). On the other hand you'd probably research to lasers anyways, so having them unlock at the same time isn't a big issue.

I think wolf armor should'nt need alien plasma technology. lore-wise, it doesn't make sense. One you have unlocked jackal, you know that your armors need some energy resistance. The scientific progress is limited by the ability to use alloys, which is unlocked when you discover aleniums. The alien plasma tech should be a pre-requisite for laser weaps (along with plasma weaps) and perhaps higher tier armors, but not wolf.

I think that's a fair point. I'll split it out so the weapons give Alien Plasma Technology >> Laser Weapons and the Alloy Fabrication >> Wolf.

Time to rewrite the Xenopedia descriptions then..

Cool. That makes a little more sense than the current implementation.

I haven't had a lot of time in 18.3 yet, but air battles which are foregone conclusions are getting a little annoying now. There have been multiple suggestions for auto-resolves in the past, I think now is the time to implement something.

I've been meaning to post about just how easy the light scouts are. Yes, it's the first battle, so you hardly want the novice player to get thumped by them. But they offer no resistance whatsoever.

The only thing I can think of doing would be to slightly increase the turn speed, allow it to evade and slightly increase evasion distance and speed. Thus, the first time a Condor shoots at a light scout it would be surprising but a Condor can take on a light scout with its cannon and the shots are easy to dodge.

In fact, allowing the light scout to evade would in fact be a pretty good introduction to air battle without having to use tutorials - it would all be on the screen. The Condor would launch its missiles first, so you'd see the light scout evade. Then when the light scout gets in range it shoots back and the player can copy what the light scout did then both aircraft close to knife fight range and the Condor wallops the light scout.

that sounds pretty good. Uses up a fair number of the interception options, which is what those first couple should be about, without being lethal.

There won't be any auto-resolve added before the Steam launch. It's too big a system to put in before then.

On awarding points for capturing UFO's - is my understanding correct, that a capture of any UFO (without regards to its size) is always 100 points towards the region? If it is the case maybe it should be weighted by difficulty to down/capture the UFO?

Oh and I did wonder does a player get points for crashing a UFO into the ocean?

Just one thing, I think the tech is to fast paced. In less than 2 or 3 months you can create unlimited alenium explosives and lots of laser weapons, but can't even begin another base. Or even have the funds to build half of what you research...

I support having the light scout have some sort of an evade. Probably not enough to dodge two missiles, fired one a second after the other, but enough to give the newbie players a sense of how to deal with UFOs rolling out of the way. I mean, a recon craft should be nimble enough to do that much, right? It can't exactly defend itself based on armament or speed, so maneuverability would be the only thing going for it.

So, yeah, light scout (I dunno about regular scouts, maybe) having a roll ability, but not too good of one. Just good enough to dodge any lazily launched missiles, but not an actual attack (ie, fire the missiles staggered).

@tirl - Hmmm. I don't actually know the answer to either of those questions. For shooting a UFO down over water, the points should be added to the closest nation but I don't know if they actually are.

@Chris, original XCOM had a charts for scores, UFO activities in different countries (which actually was useful in searching for alien bases), maybe addition of such feature could help Xenonauts too? I personally would like to see a kind of timeline summary in geoscape with known events and there estimated influence(score rating) on the fight against aliens.

@Chris, original XCOM had a charts for scores, UFO activities in different countries (which actually was useful in searching for alien bases), maybe addition of such feature could help Xenonauts too? I personally would like to see a kind of timeline summary in geoscape with known events and there estimated influence(score rating) on the fight against aliens.

Seconded.

+1 on light scout having some evade.

I'd also like to be able to overkill UFOs. e.g. if I have a foxtrot with 4 tier 2 missiles against a scout I just want the damn thing vaporized and not have to do a ground mission for 3 kills a few months into the game.

There are quite a variety of alien mission types for UFOs. Looking closely at them, they can be boiled down into these five types:

1) Cause events. (flying)

2) Cause terror (landing)

3) Air superiority (flying)

4) Build a base (landing)

5) Base attacks (landing)

There seems to be three reasons why a UFO would land, and each of them precludes attacking the landed craft. Could we have a catch-all mission type for UFOs to land that isn't either building a base or conducting a terror mission? The reason I ask why is that with the three reasons why alien craft would land 1) the player is more interested in dealing with terror sites, 2) It's pretty unlikely that the player will know that there's a landed craft building a base, as they usually pick funding blocks that aren't covered by radar (which is a smart move, btw) and 3) you never see the UFO once the base attack is underway. The player never usually gets a crack at landed craft, despite the fact there are fully realised undamaged models for UFO types that can land. Perhaps something where the UFO lands and starts generating events faster than it would flying?

Those are now 5 types, since you added base attacks.

I'd recommend an abduction mission, or a ground scout mission, or something simple that just gives them an excuse, any excuse, to land. Even if it doesn't do anything to the region, or it just makes the region lose points a little bit more, it'd be good to have landed ships occasionally just for the sake of fighting a full force.

I've seen alien ships fly around and randomly land for no apparent reason: Perhaps its "cause terror" even though they weren't doing terror sites, but the mini-attack events. I was once able to attack a landed landing ship without having to fight it in the sky.

What'd be really nice on the "overkill" option Erutan referenced would be if it was rigged so a smart player could game the system by overkilling it by the right amount: A craft just barely shot down will mostly/always be "lightly damaged," and so will have a near-full complement of troops (and good loot). Overkill a good bit and you've got severe damage, less crew and less loot. Overkill a lot (hit a light scout with a plasma torpedo, maybe), and the ship is destroyed outright -- netting just a few alien alloys from scavenging the debris, maybe a weapon that managed to survive the crash. Also add those minor drops for fighting fighters, not a lot but a couple alien alloys representing the scavenged debris. Frugal alien hunters are smart alien hunters!

Side note on general air balance: To be honest, I think the human missile detonation range needs to be looked at. A lot of times we take out fighters even though by rights the enemy fighter ought to have rolled away: Fixing that would mean battles become a lot less "auto-win" when there's actually a notable chance for your instakill attack to miss. It would also add the skill element of manually judging when it's right to launch.

Also give the light scouts rolls as people have mentioned.

Isn't the overkill in the game? I know it was earlier, but maybe it's been removed?

You could outright destroy smaller ships by hitting them with some powerful boom-boom.

Just one thing, I think the tech is to fast paced. In less than 2 or 3 months you can create unlimited alenium explosives and lots of laser weapons, but can't even begin another base. Or even have the funds to build half of what you research...

Agreed. Getting even the second base up and running takes pretty much all money even on medium difficulty. I have played now for a longer time with saving cheat loosing no tanks, soldiers or planes and winning all encounters but still couldn't build up my bases properly and lost the USA. UFO-s are now far too big, and my planes are outmatches (I have researched the second plane type at this point). I feel the economic system is not set up yet (nations give too small funding and we manage everything from mission rewards) and am not sure what needs to be done to progress research though the UFO-s suggest I should be further down the tree.

To boil it down:

- We probably need more funding from the nations or decreased costs overall

- More regions to defend but definitely more easy way to get a base up and running

- Need more overview on the research (a lot of descriptions are missing) - maybe a research tree to show progress

- Clear objectives how to progress research e.g.: capture and interrogate alien commander

The money/UFO missions rate should be thus tilted towards money, or make the invasion much much slower to advance else we are doing a lot of successful missions and are still outgunned and unable to get to distant locations from initial base, but the missions should not get too much importance, positioning of bases and air combat should account for around 50% of total income, so if we play well and do not need to order soldiers/planes/guns/tanks we can chose to either build a new base each month, OR level up our planes, and equipment at least in the first few months.

The month end boost by funding can then be balanced out by upkeep costs if we have around 3 bases from which point on new bases would become quite difficult to build due to money issues.

Regarding general balance on the Geoscape:

One Part would be resources of the player, another those of the aliens. It would be nice if the resources of the aliens (number of ships and attacks) would at least partially depend on player progress (if it is not yet done so). This would server two purposes:

1. Give beginner players the sensation that if they play a bit better they can win

2. Cut down pro player to size when they advance too rapidly (air superiority missions increase, base attacks, escorts to ships)

The first point would enable us to loose battles knowing that we can still turn the tide afterwards, while the second point would ensure that we always have to achieve victory against strong odds.