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Game design question probably for the devs


Thomas

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Just out of pure curiosity, Why was all of the character animations done with sprites instead of 3D models? I would think models would provide more flexability. I know the original creation is time consuming(I draw them) but once completed they could be made to do whatever, leading to new abilities and movements. Not that sprites can't be used in the same way but it take 1000s of images to do so which is also time consuming. Don't take this the wrong way I love the game so far it's just the implementation i'm curious about, it is a pretty old school way to approach it.

It's no problem for me as I am old school will be 40 in 4 days:).My guess is it's an engine limitation.

Happy Gaming!

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They technically make 3D modles first and then take screencaptures of them to make the sprites.

And yes according to this post on Reddit it is an engine limitation of the "Diner Dash" engine they are using.

Link: Clicky!

Entire AmA Reddit here: Clicky!

Personally I am thankful for the 2D aesthetics. I enjoy them a lot more than the aesthetics choices that would have been made if the game had been all 3D.

(I'm a bit disappointed/annoyed by the recently released gameplay vid of Wastelands 2. Something about the camera and/or foreground annoys the crap out of me. It's not that it is 3D but a choice that has beeen made as a result of it being 3D. It is not likely it would have happened in 2D)

Edited by Gorlom
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I am very good with 3D studio max and was hoping to be able to help with the graphics..But I agree completely the game looks good as-is. Maybe they could throw the models into a tool kit for us..LOL

P.S. - the 2D does give it an old familiar feeling )

Edited by Thomas
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You mean you want to mod the character modles? the soldiers and the aliens?

Otherwise there has been quite some intriguing work on the subject in the mapping section. I think zzz did really wonderful work (but the images seem to have disappeared now) of intergrating his modles into the maps.

The funniest has to be the guy that modded in a EU94 small UFO into a Xenonauts map :) It looked quite pretty.

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IMHO I think the troups look too catoonish..would like to redraw to be more life like then maybe in some camo , Gear, Etc. But I do plan to work on the maps as well. I enjoy modding nearly as much as playing.

Im currently converting the aircraft used in the geoscape to use the actual planes instead of red and green representations.

Edited by Thomas
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(I'm a bit disappointed/annoyed by the recently released gameplay vid of Wastelands 2. Something about the camera and/or foreground annoys the crap out of me. It's not that it is 3D but a choice that has beeen made as a result of it being 3D. It is not likely it would have happened in 2D)

Like the goddamn camera rotation?

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Like the goddamn camera rotation?

Shit, I loved what I was seeing (only the dialogue system seemed unfamiliar, but not bad), up until they started to rotate the camera. I'm pretty sure they're proud of that possibility, and of course it allows the game to show off all its assets, but goddamn it I hate rotatable cameras, especially if their use is mandatory.

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I don't have a problem with the rotatable camera per say, I don't really have any feelings either way about that. I think the tilting up and down of the camera annoys me more than the rotation. (I'm a bit surprised that the two of you consider that to be a bad point, could you elaborate as to why it is bad to be able to rotate the ccamera? :))

That they design the areas with objects that obscure my view provoking me me to use it even if I don't want to is what is getting to me.. That the function isn't there to help me, but to get around an artificially created problem that they could just as well have left out. (I guess it is technically connected)

Mostly I think it is the world objects behaviour in the foreground that feels pointless, unnatural and annoying. IIrc I was disappointed way before they came to the camera actually rotating, it was either right before or during the first combat with the bugs that it started bugging me.! (:) I punned :P)

I'm much more satisfied with Shadowrun returns aesthetic/graphic choices. (The posed "screenshot" examples I've seen looks bloody brilliant.)

Edited by Gorlom
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I don't have a problem with the rotatable camera per say, I don't really have any feelings either way about that. I think the tilting up and down of the camera annoys me more than the rotation. (I'm a bit surprised that the two of you consider that to be a bad point, could you elaborate as to why it is bad to be able to rotate the ccamera? :))

That they design the areas with objects that obscure my view provoking me me to use it even if I don't want to is what is getting to me.. That the function isn't there to help me, but to get around an artificially created problem that they could just as well have left out. (I guess it is technically connected)

Answered your own question. To me it just serves no purpose nor does it enhance the game's aesthetic value. It just forces me to **** around with it, instead of playing the game, and interferes with visual clarity. It made me rage so many times in NWN2 (especially when I encountered elevated terrain).

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Answered your own question. To me it just serves no purpose nor does it enhance the game's aesthetic value. It just forces me to **** around with it, instead of playing the game, and interferes with visual clarity. It made me rage so many times in NWN2 (especially when I encountered elevated terrain).

I'm surprised by how happy I am that someone shares my view on this :)

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And yes according to this post on Reddit it is an engine limitation of the "Diner Dash" engine they are using.

And considering all the trouble it's given already - hopefully a lesson to all future indie devs not to be tempted by the apparent time savings that indie engines from small-time developers may promise.

Being independent with constrained resources is only more reason to use first-rate tools, not less. Same as how if you were a small independent car builder: you would do better to pick the well-proven LS engine from GM over a potentially better exotic, and parrot every non-key component from big makers; while a giant like Volkswagen-Porsche is free to chase any engines and technologies they like.

(I'm a bit disappointed/annoyed by the recently released gameplay vid of Wastelands 2. Something about the camera and/or foreground annoys the crap out of me. It's not that it is 3D but a choice that has beeen made as a result of it being 3D. It is not likely it would have happened in 2D)

But Wasteland 2 actually looks quite detailed. Not quite up to modern standards, but pretty good.

I'm very pleased that they decided to run with a more realistic take on post-nuclear environment - not a barren desert, but rather an overgrown world. Although, for Nevada, that was hardly necessary.

They couldn't make it look how it looks with a 2D engine. Trees would not be swaying in the wind, there wouldn't be a lot of detail. Given the constrained budget.

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But Wasteland 2 actually looks quite detailed. Not quite up to modern standards, but pretty good.

I'm very pleased that they decided to run with a more realistic take on post-nuclear environment - not a barren desert, but rather an overgrown world. Although, for Nevada, that was hardly necessary.

Not the issue I have with the game or the graphics.

They couldn't make it look how it looks with a 2D engine. Trees would not be swaying in the wind, there wouldn't be a lot of detail. Given the constrained budget.

First: I never said I wanted Wastelands 2 in 2D. I just don't agree with some of the design choices that comes with the game being in 3D. Second: what? why can't trees sway in the wind with sprites? That is just silly. Third: I would think it obvious they can't make the game be in 3D with 2D graphics technology :P

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