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Thread: Map Editor

  1. #21
    Commander Sathra's Avatar
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    Wasn't a good precedent though.
    I'd be surprised if anyone liked those missions.
    Common wisdom proposes that at minimum 60% of the field of engagement should be rubble and/or on fire. As such the munitions budget has been increased 50%. Operations debriefs have shown that 15% is insufficient for current combat requirements.
    Ein jeder Engel ist schrecklich.

  2. #22
    Alien Dance Instructor MickeyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sathra View Post
    Wasn't a good precedent though.
    I'd be surprised if anyone liked those missions.
    Didn't sat it was a good precedent... though I actually did like them. They were a serious *beech*, but added an element of tactical play in terms of best utilisation of ammunition etc, and what weaponry to take along for best effect etc.

    They may not be a perfect solution but they do add something to the gameplay
    What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sathra View Post
    Wasn't a good precedent though.
    I'd be surprised if anyone liked those missions.
    I'll tell you something that will probably shock you to your core... You're right I didnt enjoy them.

    But if Xeno handles it differently it would work. Basically the super heavy UFOs could be rare and would amost act like a base mission spanning 2 maps.

    I don't know, its hard to speculate without knowing the sizes and frequency of UFOs that are implemented. Still it's an idea that's worth noting down for discussions sake more than anything.
    Moses cancels Pasture animal: Interrupted by !!bush!!

  4. #24
    Commander Sathra's Avatar
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    Really hard to get right though.
    The problems with the TFTD 'Lane' missions were a mixture of:
    -Excessive size and map complexity.
    -Obscene difficulty (mixture of the lazy AI, weapons, and alien toughness)
    -Various bugs
    -Item limit (for ammo and whatnot)
    -Troop limit (you're outnumbered about 2-1...twice).

    Then you get the drills and some experience under your belt (and the ridiculously good ION/MagION armours), and they're just boring. And tedious.

    All that said though, it could be done. It would be interesting to have the superheavy missions be moving through a map to the other side (or some section of it) which is taken up by some massive wall of ship. Then either breaching the doors, or blowing your way in to an exit area.

    Would get tedious and/or incredibly difficult though. Good thing there's no BB's.
    Common wisdom proposes that at minimum 60% of the field of engagement should be rubble and/or on fire. As such the munitions budget has been increased 50%. Operations debriefs have shown that 15% is insufficient for current combat requirements.
    Ein jeder Engel ist schrecklich.

  5. #25
    Colonel Gazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    in reality it'd be much better if you can paint any number of locations for either to occur. That's a planned feature not yet implemented. I think the UFO size category may be incoporated into map size somewhere, so only maps designed for small UFOs are used when a small UFO is shot down etc...
    One way to go about that would be...

    The level designer has a 2nd layer on top of the yellow submap rectangles.
    If you switch to the 2nd layer you cannot place submaps any more but you can place UFO/Dropship spawn locations.

    Instead of picking "Road N-S" from the element selection, you'd pick and place "UFO Type 1".

    Multiple spawn locations of "UFO Type 1" should be possible, making a given map far less predictable.

    Spawn locations should be allowed to overlap, too, because in the end only one location each is actually going to be used for UFO and dropship.

    One map could have spawn locs for "UFO Type 1", "UFO Type 2", "UFO Type 3".

    That would multiply the maps that can be selected for a given crash site.
    The game can then choose from all maps that have a loc assigned for "UFO Type 1".

    If a map is "hardcoded" for one single UFO type, that would be terribly wasteful because you'd need dedicated map sets for every single UFO type...


    You could even put the "compatibilty" in the map filename.

    A map would not be called "suburb" but "suburb.2.3.4".
    This map is compatible with UFO types 2,3,4.

    That would also make it easier to keep track of how many compatible maps already exist for a given UFO type and scenery.
    A simple filter for the filenames that can be done out of game.


    It may even help with randomly picking a map for a crash site because you wouldn't have to open / parse every map to find out if it's compatible but could filter by filename.
    Last edited by Gazz; 10-27-2011 at 15:54.

  6. #26
    Commander Sathra's Avatar
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    Could just assign them based on ship size though. If all ships of a certain size fall within a certain boundary of space on the combat map, that could also work.
    Common wisdom proposes that at minimum 60% of the field of engagement should be rubble and/or on fire. As such the munitions budget has been increased 50%. Operations debriefs have shown that 15% is insufficient for current combat requirements.
    Ein jeder Engel ist schrecklich.

  7. #27
    Colonel Gazz's Avatar
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    That's a possibility but we don't know thar the UFOs have largely similiar basic shapes.

    A "small" UFO could be long and slim, requiring the same "possible space" as a battleship. That would mean that a large portion of the map is empty.

    Creating complicated formulas for that only limits map designers because the game can only do "the standard allocation" and could not be convinced to work with any creative map designs...

    That's why I suggested to allocate "UFO shapes" where they do fit. That way the maps can be tailored to a few UFO types for which they do fit.

  8. #28
    Beloved Leader Chris's Avatar
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    Gazz, what you suggest is largely what we're thinking at this end. I imagine the solution will be something along those lines.

    Regarding the 2-part missions, to be honest the biggest problem with the capital ships would be actually making the outside of them into proper tiles that go on the ground. If we can do that, we'll just do one-part missions on a really big map. Only doing the interior is a quick and easy way around the tile production problem. I actually do think it'll make the game a bit less fun (as Sathra mentioned, lots of base-lite missions), but the current design is for it to work that way.

    If we get time, we'll do those UFO tiles too...I think there's certainly something very evocative about approaching a massive smoking UFO on the ground with your little team of guys and thinking "crap, that's a big UFO"...but we'd do that after we'd got all the other tiles done.
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  9. #29
    Caveat, New to this, have not played the game, Stupid paypal.
    Well technically, I have not played the game in it's current state. If you released just the world map and sitrep interface a couple years ago, I think I downloaded that, but that was my last contact with ya'all before the recent media storm. I'm making assumptions based on the previous three games, this might be mechanically impossible on non-applicable.

    The way I would like to do the big ship multi part missions... have them require two teams.

    I'm assuming that by time you are fighting a ship of this size, you will be well into the game, have multiple bases, several strike teams, and generally a lot going on logistically between fights.

    For a ship this size, you would send in two (or more) troop carriers.

    The first team's job would be to create (if needed) and hold the breach. That would be a normal mission, but instead of a whoe ufo somewhere on the map you have a large section of ufo that extends off the map along one or more edge. This team's job is to secure the area, kill any aliens that have escaped from the door/hull breach and then take the entrance to the enemy ship and hold it for X turns. I saw something about you having a take and hold victory condition to avoid "wounded floater hiding in the chimney" syndrome from bogging down gameplay. This would be a perfect use for that system. Once the outside is held it is assumed that that team would contain the ship and deal with any further leaks.

    Then the second team kicks in, interior base style mission with simple entrance area (the breach/door secured by the first team) and whatever crazy interior of the ship shaped space you want to design without worrying about external objects, map sizes, or tileset constraints.

  10. #30
    Colonel Gazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Regarding the 2-part missions, to be honest the biggest problem with the capital ships would be actually making the outside of them into proper tiles that go on the ground. If we can do that, we'll just do one-part missions on a really big map.
    What if you... cheat?

    Some kind of I dunno... optical shield?
    Some animated texture that makes the visible outside of the ship blur and weave.

    It's just a foggy idea (sorry!) but it might let you get away with a lot fewer dedicated "outer hull" tiles.

    Anyway, if you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough. =P



    I imagine a seamless, animated texture, the size of the entire tactical viewscreen.
    Any tile that contains UFO "outer hull" does not actually show the outher hull graphics - or maybe only a faint shadow of them.
    For the most part, any outer hull pixel serves as the alpha channel of the screen-filling wavy texture.
    That way you get smooth "distortions" waving across all the visible outer hull of the UFO.

    It may not look especially biological but it would look extremely alien and cover up any failure to produce a genuine biological look.
    And alas, a "genuine biological look" is very difficult to pull off because with "properly" curved lines, you end up with damn near every tile of the UFO being a unique piece, custom-made to fit only one spot on the hull.

    For X-Com they needed what, a grand total of 10 different tiles? Plus a bunch of decals for guns and such?



    Maybe you'd still need more tiles than X-Com did to display some angles and curved lines, but you wouldn't need thousands to display every possible line.
    Last edited by Gazz; 10-28-2011 at 16:30.

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