I don't 'get' the need for a suppression icon? Why not just show the unit cower?

[xcorps]

I like the system explained in the suppression thread.

I wasn't proposing a change, just pointing out that suppression and fear aren't the same thing. I don't think it should be influenced by bravery. A measure of discipline doesn't really exist AFAIK, but THAT would be the stat that would influence suppression relief.

[Gorlom]

I like the system explained in the suppression thread.

I wasn't proposing a change, just pointing out that suppression and fear aren't the same thing. I don't think it should be influenced by bravery. A measure of discipline doesn't really exist AFAIK, but THAT would be the stat that would influence suppression relief.

Ok, I missunderstood you then. I'm confused by your 2 posts though. You say that being suppressed does not mean that that individual is cowering in fear, but what stat should it be tied to then? As I understand morale it has nothing to do with bravery. (you opposed morale in the first post, but now you are opposing bravery... at least I think you do. the last sentence is confusing me since it seems to do a 180 degree turn)

Morale (also known as esprit de corps) is the capacity of a group's members to maintain belief in an institution or goal, particularly in the face of opposition or hardship. Morale is often referenced by authority figures as a generic value judgment of the willpower, obedience, and self-discipline of a group tasked with performing duties assigned by a superior.

According to Alexander H. Leighton, "morale is the capacity of a group of people to pull together persistently and consistently in pursuit of a common purpose".[1]

Assuming this meaning of morale wouldn't this be a perfect stat to tie the suppression to? It has nothing to do with being afrid or not. it is simply the belief in the group or organiation working together.

[xcorps]

Welll, the current system as I understand it needs to use bravery because it's the only stat by which you can make a roll from. What I would implement is a system that has a discipline model. Each deployment of soldiers would have a chain of command. 12 soldiers would have 3 team leaders, and the first team leader would be the squad leader. (Ideally, you would deploy 3 teams of 4 and 1 squad leader for a total of 13.) Or whatever other chain of command the player choses, but there needs to be a cascade of leadership positions. Not a bunch of "team leaders" all modifying each other in the same mission.

Each soldier would have a moral, bravery, and discipline score. When promoted to a leadership position, the leaders would have a leadership score. That leadership score would modifythe moral and discipline scores of the soldiers in the unit. (Team leader 1 would modify all soldiers in team 1. He could modify the other teams scores if their leader dies.) The squad leader would also modify the leadership score of his team leaders. Those bonus's would be range limited by an effective range. (If your team leader is on the opposite side of a map from his team, his team loses those bonus AND takes a penalty)

The ability of a demoralized soldier to overcome panic would be dependent on moral, bravery, and discipline modified by the leadership bonus.
The ability of a pinned or suppressed soldier to overcome those states would be dependent on moral and discipline modified by leadership.


I realize this is probably a vastly overcomplicated system for Xenonauts. It's just what I would consider ideal for tactical shooters.

My point wasn't really that bravery shouldn't be used as the base stat for Xenonauts, it's that suppression isn't a result of fear..and therefore robots and other low intellect oppenents can be suppressed under certain circumstances. Again, those circumstances probably being outside the scope of the Xenonauts model.

[Gorlom]

Oh right, there is no morale stat in game :P my bad.

Yeah, that probably is a bit overcomplicated. It doesn't sound that fun to me to involve 3 stats like that..
it would be enough and simpler to just use morale for suppression and bravery for berserking, panic, mindcontrol. or maybe just rename bravery to "mental fortitude" and use it for everything or something... nah sounds too obscure.

Edit: How about basing suppression on the reflexes stat? It may not be intuitive but think about it for a sec If you have to base it on an existing stat, and want to distance it from bravery. why not reflexes? It would also involve reflexes more than just reaction shots and give you an alternative way to level that particular stat.

[xcorps]

Well, ideally the only time you would worry about those scores is when promoting soldiers to leadership positions. In combat all you'd need to worry about is keeping some form of team cohesion (not sending your soldiers off willy nilly all over the map.)

That might be an annoying micromanagement to some, but imo it's a critical part of tactical combat and deserves modelling. But that's just one of the things on my "perfect game" wishlist.

[Gorlom]

Personally I'm rather annoyed by the idea of forcing a command structure that doesnt exist into the game. Everything the Xenonauts do is decided by the commander in the sky... so what is the point of having someone in the field designater as team leader?

Sorry about the rant my perfect game is different from your perfect game

[xcorps]

It's just how I see tactical combat, but my vision is colored by my experiance.