I don't 'get' the need for a suppression icon? Why not just show the unit cower?

Is the unit dropping to a crouch when you fire upon it just not obvious enough?

Why is there a need to add another graphical UI interface icon to the game, right smack on top of a target, exactly where it is least wanted by anyone who wants a little immersion to go with their boatload of alien-killing and tactical shooting?

Then again, I guess convenience really is king for most people who feel "it's just a game, not a simulation."

Your mileage can vary. I personally don't find it distracting.

Maybe there could be an option to turn off the icon, so people could have it either way.

Not all aliens have a crouch animation. Terror drones, for example. If you want to pay for the appropriate sort of animation and transformation into a spritesheet, I'd call Chris and tell him.

How do you know it's not just going to the bathroom? ;-)

And Oathbreaker, FYI, there are three planned types of Terror Drone, each larger than the last. So it's not an isolated example.

And Oathbreaker, FYI, there are three planned types of Terror Drone, each larger than the last. So it's not an isolated example.

Would a "drone" be suppressable?

oooh, you could get into a good argument about whether a drone would be smart enough to understand what's happening to it. And you could bring in questions about flashbangs, and that might lead into "well can you actually stun a drone?". That would make a nice thread all in it's own right. However! Looking at the existing game files, drones do have a bravery stat (it's very high). So, regardless of what we could debate here, the game sez that drones can be suppressed. It's just not very easy.

The question isn't whether a drone knows what's happening to it, it's whether or not it gets "scared" and freezes up. I'd say no it's just a machine.

Suppression certainly figures in a certain emotional quantity. It also figures a logical quantity as well. A suppressed unit does not necessarily need to be scared, but it does need to be convinced that to move out of cover is is to die. I would make the argument that a machine can be programmed to determine very quickly the probability of its survival based upon the amount of incoming fire it is receiving, and if that probability reaches a pre-set figure, it will not risk its valuable self any further than it has to.

Suppression certainly figures in a certain emotional quantity. It also figures a logical quantity as well. A suppressed unit does not necessarily need to be scared, but it does need to be convinced that to move out of cover is is to die. I would make the argument that a machine can be programmed to determine very quickly the probability of its survival based upon the amount of incoming fire it is receiving, and if that probability reaches a pre-set figure, it will not risk its valuable self any further than it has to.

Yes, but when you are "suppressed" in the Xenonauts model you are unable to do anything because you're too scared to move or fire. A machine without emotions could certainly have a self-preservation program, but it would simply move itself out of danger or destroy the threat or both. If there is no place to move to it would certainly fire in hopes of destroying the threat. It would never just stop and do nothing. In a firefight to do nothing is nearly always going to get you killed. Either run or fight. Once the enemy has engaged you those are really your only choices.

Ah, I would contest that suppressed = scared in the Xenonauts model. The reason I do this is from the following posts:

From Build v12.1 released!

Morale System: The morale system has been expanded a bit, so when troops suffer a “morale event” they will either panic and lose all their Aps, drop their weapon and flee, or go berserk and fire off their weapon. The system can now be customised by modders. It’s been tweaked so troops should be a bit braver too, hopefully it’s not gone too far the other way.

And from Suppression Mechanics

Initially I was going to suggest we tied this into morale, but on reflection I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think a soldier who is pinned in position by enemy fire is directly more frightened than one that is not, rather they are keeping their heads down to avoid getting shot

So, as you can see, a suppressed unit is not scared. If a suppressed unit is not scared then we can apply the rulings you have given to non-biological units to biological units, for exactly the same reason.

However, I am being unfair. A drone doesn't need to be autonomous. It could be controlled by telepresence. In which case, the survival instinct is dimmed - the pilot is not physically present. However, it would still be present, perhaps enforced by the CO reminding the operator exactly how much that drone costs. And if the telepresence link is especially good, then the operator can be fooled into thinking his is present on the battlefield, even when he isn't, which would enhance the survival instinct.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Max_Caine

Ah, I would contest that suppressed = scared in the Xenonauts model. The reason I do this is from the following posts:

From Build v12.1 released!

And from Suppression Mechanics

So, as you can see, a suppressed unit is not scared. If a suppressed unit is not scared then we can apply the rulings you have given to non-biological units to biological units, for exactly the same reason.

However, I am being unfair. A drone doesn't need to be autonomous. It could be controlled by telepresence. In which case, the survival instinct is dimmed - the pilot is not physically present. However, it would still be present, perhaps enforced by the CO reminding the operator exactly how much that drone costs. And if the telepresence link is especially good, then the operator can be fooled into thinking his is present on the battlefield, even when he isn't, which would enhance the survival instinct.

I might see your point based on those comments, but when a unit is suppressed in Xenonauts it stops firing and moving even in open ground, so it isn't increasing it's chance of surviving. In fact, it is decreasing it's chance by not returning fire. If cowering substantially reduced the chance of being hit I might agree with you, however, our units cannot go prone and reduce their profile and even if that were true, why wouldn't they return fire?

The remote operator argument is plausible, but again, if your 10 bazillion dollar Terminator Mark 1000 is in danger you're going to get to cover while shooting back not just stop and get it sent to junkyard.

Not all aliens have a crouch animation. Terror drones, for example. If you want to pay for the appropriate sort of animation and transformation into a spritesheet, I'd call Chris and tell him.

Also there would be no way to distinguish regular crouching from being suppressed.

It's not possible to suppress drones or other robotic troops. Or fearless enemies. But the reason we use the icon is that the aliens will be using cover by the time beta comes around and if a unit is already crouching in cover you won't know when it's suppressed unless you have the icon.

Ah but that just adds to the fun when you leg it over with your stun baton and it superheats your kidneys with a plasma rifle...

Just me then?

I think I'm with Gauddlike. You shouldn't know whether a unit is suppressed. You'll just have to take your chances based on lack of movement or return fire. I like the surprise factor.

Hmmmm I just know I'll forget if I've kept enemy troops suppressed, so I'm going to take a few casualties if it's nto showing me. ON the other hand, can';t argue that it aids immersion...torn >ouch<

All you need to do is keep your favourite troops safe back in the... ah no never mind

If you plan to fight by brute force using suppressive fire to advance instead of stealthy anti-terrorist/special ops tactics then just take your time, bring up every weapon you've got and start blasting away. You won't need markers. After a couple of turns of MG and rocket fire against some aliens a house or whatever, they'll either be dead or suppressed along with any civilians that were in there. Cover and Suppress with 2/3's of your troops and move with 1/3. Just make sure to bring LOTS of ammo.

Edited August 23, 2012 by StellarRat

The question isn't whether a drone knows what's happening to it, it's whether or not it gets "scared" and freezes up. I'd say no it's just a machine.

Remember that supression is just as much about survival as it is about fear. When you have a hail of bullets hitting all around you, you keep your head down. Which is why suppressive fire is used so much in real modern warfare.

Either way, what it boils down to is whether the drones are programmed to be suppressed -- and if I was making one, I'd sure as hell program it to be more careful when it found itself under intense fire.

It's a moot point, Safe-Keeper. Fearless troops (including drones) cannot be suppressed.

Remember that supression is just as much about survival as it is about fear. When you have a hail of bullets hitting all around you, you keep your head down. Which is why suppressive fire is used so much in real modern warfare.

Either way, what it boils down to is whether the drones are programmed to be suppressed -- and if I was making one, I'd sure as hell program it to be more careful when it found itself under intense fire.

Yeah, I understand that. But, in Xenonauts, when you get suppressed you "freeze" in place and stop shooting. If your machine was under fire just stopping in place isn't going to help the situation. A machine, not knowing fear and panic, should just back away and seek cover. So, the game mechanics don't allow for your programming to be useful, even though it is sensible. Anyway, according to Chris, machines can't be suppressed so it make no difference.

The fearless drone is a mighty juggernaut of destruction. It does not get suppressed!

The fearless drone is a mighty juggernaut of destruction. It does not get suppressed!

I hated those flying discs in XCom! They were even dangerous when you killed them, LOL. They ought to have alien with acid blood like the ones in "Aliens". Then you have to avoid the corpses too.

yeah the cyberdiscs were a challenge early in the game. It's a shame that this level wasn't kept all the way through. But hey, no Psi or Blaster Bombs round here, so that should help.