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Allow research into radar range, missile systems (shooting from bases at UFO's) aircraft speed and performance.

Ground weapons:

- incedinary grenades, stun grenades

- stun guns

- LRAD

- grenade launchers

- smoke canisters

- knock out gas

- gas masks

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@Targe from your posts I take it you believe that aliens has been to earth.

What is your reaction to people that don't believe that?

What is your reaction to people thinking you should tone down the "zeal"?

What is your reaction to people that arent as interested in haveing UFO sightings shape the story as you are?

What is your reaction to opinions about haveing a more coherent story that fits together over something that is baisically a bunch of references to wild stories.

PS. I'm not trying to start a flamewar or troll you I'm just interested to see if its worth haveing a discussion with you or if I should just stay away from this topic.

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Allow research into radar range, missile systems (shooting from bases at UFO's) aircraft speed and performance.

Ground weapons:

- incedinary grenades, stun grenades

- stun guns

- LRAD

- grenade launchers

- smoke canisters

- knock out gas

- gas masks

As you have to subdue and interrogate aliens presumably to learn their secrets, there will be some stun thingies.

Not 100% if smoke grenades will be in there, but type in 'smoke' into the search and you'll see Gauddlike & Quartermaster's work on smoke.

Gas masks would mean thousands of art updates to show your troops wearing them (of course if they wear them by default we've solved the gender issues as no one will be able to tell). Mainly that, not mentioning the various game changes it would make. Not convinced it's worth it. Smoke damage got tweaked I thought, as my guys stopped passing out instantly in it. i suspect them smoking 20 a day behind the Chinook might have built up their tolerance though.

Grenade Launchers were ruled out I'm sure I read, as you've already got a rocket launcher. Anything larger like mortars was also ruled out. After all, if you have them, so should the aliens.

Improved detection and defence was part of the original and I'm sure that will continue here. Also, for improved craft and vehicles.

As for shooting at UFOs from the bases. Firstly, if that's implemented I'd expect to see the Aliens drop small meteorites from orbit onto cities for kicks, or orbital laser weapons as the game would have to be balanced. Secondly, you may get the small thrill of knocking a big 'un out of the sky. However, the other 2999 now know exactly where your base is.

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Gas masks would mean thousands of art updates to show your troops wearing them (of course if they wear them by default we've solved the gender issues as no one will be able to tell). Mainly that, not mentioning the various game changes it would make. Not convinced it's worth it. Smoke damage got tweaked I thought, as my guys stopped passing out instantly in it. i suspect them smoking 20 a day behind the Chinook might have built up their tolerance though.

Certain armours should provide protection from stun, fire and such.

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so where was all that sneaking between pyramids happening then?

--thinks back--- creaking, rusty noises---

You have to get to the coloured area between the pyramids to get underground. Well, I say underground, but only because I thought you were on the Cydonian surface in the first round.

I guess you could take rookies in coveralls. I don't think I ever did it, as fun as it surely would have been. If that was the surface, then X-Com is clearly broken...thothkins brings the power of modern internet forum whining to bear!!!!!!!

..Bah!

..hmmm, need to practice that...

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oh now come on. I was just having a laugh. OK, I was using your possibly deceased body as an obscene marionette/zombie parody. But in a fun way!

there's no need to direct me to fan fic! That's uncalled for! What did I ever do to you? Apart from the whole Weekend at Bernies/Xenonaut crossover thing, obviously...

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..and thothkins turns to the audience.

'All together! But all fan fiction is...'

uncalled for since I've not read it. Is it better than the novel. I read that and apart form knowing a little more about Switzerland, I'm not sure I got a lot out of it.

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Which novel are you refering to? I know only about some russian writer, nothing else (and I didn't get my hands on english translation of his work).

All around the the 9-part saga I posted is not bad. I quite enjoyed it. Jus't don't expect great story. It follows the game's storyline and adds a few characters. That's it. Also, I don't think it's fan fiction actually, since it's written by Russ Brown from Microprose. And it has trademarks all over the place.

Edited by Shima
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It was written by Diane Duane.

Yours for just under $15

I think I remember the first mission in the book, and they just dumped all of the aliens into one assault. So, that was a huge harrumph! from me right there.

Ironically, I just recently read that that may happen in the Firaxis game, so what do I know? :)

It was just a bit bland and didn't really get into the back story of the aliens or provide much in the way of technical bootstrapping to fight off the invasion.

The characters were pretty bland, even though that was one of the author's strengths. I think she had been on hols to Switzerland and so that's where it was based.

<Insert Non PC comment> Frankly I wouldn't put it past the Swiss to somehow stay neutral in the midst of an alien invasion

</Insert Non PC comment >

that part was a little better, but I recall having some issues with the base as well. Secretly hidden in a mountain or something.

It was just bland. So from such a great game oozing with back story, it was a bit of a let down. I think she writes Star Trek stuff too for what that's worth depending on your mileage.

Jus't don't expect great story

but apart from that teensy flaw it's OK then? :)

Since I have now mocked it a second time, even when it didn't ask for directions to the grail, I'll give it a shot. Or I'll have it shot. It was one of the two, and 'shot' was definitely in there... ramble...mutter..shuffle...

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1: I have no time for closed-minded people, they may ignore me or trash me at will.

2. I wasn't aware there was a forum 'zeal meter' I had exceeded...

3. I wasn't asking that they shape the story, only that they be added for content, in historical context, to make the game stand out.

4. The story of visitation by aliens to this earth is very coherent. It is the disinformation campaign waged by world governments to cover this up that gives it the appearance of 'wild stories'. Government secrecy is the greatest evil currently plaguing our civilization. According to the aliens, anyway.

In short, I really don't care what people think of my posts and I will continue to make them. If people choose to be childish they may flame away. Or they can simply ignore my aliens posts and concentrate on my constructive ideas for making this game better, they have a fighting chance against Firaxis. That's the only reason I am here. Now a supporting member btw, I've ponied up some cash.

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thothkins: Try getting shot. *hint hint nudge nudge wink wink*

The "saga" is much more faithful to the game progress, so you won't get any artistic license surprises. It reads like mission reports. Whilst being able to read main protagonist's mind and emotions. No backstory here too. Just POV of one japanese xenonau- err squaddie. Also it's bit too short to have elaborate characters. Hm. It seems like I can't find any arguments to support the damn story. :)

Oh, here's one: I wasn't bored, while reading it. And I was hooked from start to finish. But that might be caused by my x-com stories deprivation... Dang, just read it and tell me if you like it :D

Edited by Shima
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2. I wasn't aware there was a forum 'zeal meter' I had exceeded...

There isn't one and I wasn't saying you had. Sometimes I simply want to take precaution and ask about matters that might pop up later on. I'm sorry if I offended you.

Government secrecy is the greatest evil currently plaguing our civilization. According to the aliens, anyway.
What do you mean by according to aliens? This makes it look like you are pulling our leg.
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1: I have no time for closed-minded people, they may ignore me or trash me at will.

On the same hand, I hope you are willing to engage with good natured debate on the subject. After all, that's the only way human knowledge (not used in the strict sense) progresses. Basically I'd like to explain why I disagree that referring to UFOlogy would make Xenonauts a better game. Also, I disagree that X-Com and Xenonauts are going head-to-head (as some others have done before). There are many differences between the two, stylistic and gameplay, and I suspect people will get both. Off the top of my head, Xenonauts has much larger squads. Also, Xenonauats has evolved the X-Com concept. There is very little in Xenonauts that is radically different, but almost everything has been improved so I think it is unfair to say Xenonauts is a remake.

I am trying to offer suggestions that will set this game apart from the other and hopefully, make it a cult hit. One way you do that is to do some search on the last 100 years of UFO contact (it likely goes back 1000's of years but we can just allude to that)

...

If you want this game to stand out, THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE. Draw on the mythos and try to get it right! Talk about the Corona, New Mexico incident, not the Iceland incident!

...

So again, there is a wealth of stuff out there to draw on.

There are two reasons why I disagree that referring to traditional UFOlogy (I apologise if my terminology is incorrect) would make the game better. Firstly, whilst you are obviously a believer, I like many others am not. I'm not saying that either position is incorrect, but it does affect how you see the use of UFOlogy in games. For many of us who don't believe, UFOlogy is kitsch and it makes whatever film/book/game it appears in seem tacky. It's been done before, it's been around forever, give us something fresh! Therefore, in order to have broadest possible market appeal Goldhawk is better off doing what they've done, namely created a new (and great in my opinion) story from scratch.

4. The story of visitation by aliens to this earth is very coherent. It is the disinformation campaign waged by world governments to cover this up that gives it the appearance of 'wild stories'. Government secrecy is the greatest evil currently plaguing our civilization. According to the aliens, anyway.

Just quickly, one of the big problems I have with UFOlogy, especially relating to the quote above, is that governments have a very hard time keeping secrets. The USA government couldn't even fabricate weapons in a country that shall go unnamed - and then couldn't keep their failure secret afterwards. Hell, even the CIA is useless at keeping secrets. This of course is a debate that will go in circles, as you can always say that they keep the important things secret and I will always say they can't (and unfortunately for you it is much easier to point to secrets revealed than secrets kept :P). Feel free however, to address this point if you wish and I will attempt to respond constructively.

Secondly, I don't think UFOlogy is actually a very good fit for the game. The alien invasion comes as an almost complete surprise, and mankind is caught almost completely unprepared. This doesn't fit in very well with governments either having a good deal of knowledge about aliens/their technology or having had high level contact with them. The current story does a good job of explaining why Xenonauts is in the position it is in and why humanity knows so little of the aliens.

Out of curiosity, I'd like to know what you thought of the background story as displayed on the website? Obviously, it isn't your first choice for backstory, but does it rate as second?

Edited by freeaxle
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I don't really want to draw too heavily on the existing alien lore simply because I don't think most of the players will be familiar with it so won't get the references if I did make them, and I'd rather write the story myself and not be constrained by the existing alien lore. Xenonauts is set in a fictional history, so there's no need to be too reliant on existing culture. From a design standpoint the story is secondary to the game mechanics anyways, although that doesn't necessarily mean we'll neglect it.

I think some of the assumptions you've jumped to are a bit unfair - blaster bombs were removed because any indirect fire weapon makes the game less tense and unbalanced, as you don't have to expose yourself to enemy fire. Not because we can't be bothered to put in the pathing. I'm pretty happy with the Xenonauts music too, I think it'll measure up to the Firaxis stuff fine.

I also don't think we need that much differentiation from Firaxis, as I think the games will play quite differently anyway. And as a game designer I'm not going to do anything purely for the reason of setting us apart from our competition - it has to add to the players' enjoyment of the game too, and not unbalance things.

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1: I have no time for closed-minded people, they may ignore me or trash me at will.

2. I wasn't aware there was a forum 'zeal meter' I had exceeded...

3. I wasn't asking that they shape the story, only that they be added for content, in historical context, to make the game stand out.

4. The story of visitation by aliens to this earth is very coherent. It is the disinformation campaign waged by world governments to cover this up that gives it the appearance of 'wild stories'. Government secrecy is the greatest evil currently plaguing our civilization. According to the aliens, anyway.

In short, I really don't care what people think of my posts and I will continue to make them. If people choose to be childish they may flame away. Or they can simply ignore my aliens posts and concentrate on my constructive ideas for making this game better, they have a fighting chance against Firaxis. That's the only reason I am here. Now a supporting member btw, I've ponied up some cash.

ONLY pop culture reference in XCOM clones is that alien ships are often saucers of some sorts and greys. Well, ok, Afterlight had little green men, but besides that none. Ok, Chrysalid is reference to alienr from Alien, but thats not part of normal UFO conspiracy theorist aliens.

Anyway, if you REALLY are conspiracy theorist(note: I got confused by your post about whether you are just referring to them or if you are believing in them ^^;), I hope you are at least realistic one :P Aka, don't expect aliens to be greys and flying in saucers. Why? Because 1) Its highly unlikely to aliens resemble humans in any way 2) Saucer isn't best space ship shape, theoretically sphere would be better. 3) They are both originating from pop culture

Really, biggest problem with conspiracy theorists is that they counter every argument with "Government is hiding it" or "It could be true!" and such.

And like I said, both Firaxis and Goldhawk have said they don't intend to complete with each other and both consider Xenonauts to be faithful remake while XCOM: Enemy Unknown is reimagining.

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I agree, Xenomask. One thing I've noticed about conspiracy theorists is that they're, well, conspiracy theorists. I mean to say that people who believe in one theory often believe in many. It's not a case of "I've examined the evidence, and in this case the publicly accepted story is untrue," it's the government or big business (depending on your political leanings) are hiding this stuff in all these cases.

My other issue is that, having worked for the US government and having held a security clearance, I have an idea of how they work. Yes, clearly the government was covering something up in Roswell or whatever. That's cause they were doing something secret. I'm sure that on a certain level they were happy enough to have people conclude that they were hiding aliens. Because if you're looking for non-existent aliens, you're not looking for what they were really trying to hide.

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