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Female mod


oracle1990

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I never understood why the US bans women from combat roles. I mean, so long as a person qualifies to serve as a rifleman (for example), I don't care wheter they're male or female.

Granted, the women seem to struggle a bit more than us men from my experience, but if they're up to it why not? Just as long as no one allows women for the sake of having women in there. If a person, man or woman, doesn't meet the requirements then they don't belong there.

Back on topic, I like the work so far. Kinda iffy on the uniform, to be honest. I don't know of any armed forces that make female-specific uniforms.

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Presumably something to do with distracting the men in the heat of combat. Or making them do stupid things to protect the women or some sort. Which might not be entirely unjustifiable, but I agree with you.

"Hey Vasquez, you ever been mistaken for a man?"

"No. Have you?"

Damn, now I have to watch Aliens. Brb

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Now I've not been in actual combat, so I can't say about that. Do remember reading somewhere in a study that we, as a species, value female individuals higher than male individuals. Which kinda makes sense, since a female can only breed once per year (simplification, but still) while a male can breed once a day, or some such. If I'm not mistaken, survival of the species is what drives most species on Earth.

Now most species don't possess the intellect we do, but such things are probably rooted pretty deep. Still don't see why we should limit women to non-combat roles, considering the intellect we apparently possess (I still argue we're all daft mammals, though).

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Some interesting reading - http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/24/us-usa-military-suit-idUSBRE84N01P20120524 - got this link from a female officer in the army.

;)

That's a silly argument since, upon enlistment/commission, we volunteer to give up our constitutional rights for the duration of our military service. Females in combat arms would work if the units are kept to separate "Female only/Male only". As much of a proponent of females being allowed in combat arms as I am, I am realistic enough to know that it would become some politicized and PC thing. As it is, the easiest way to destroy unit cohesion is to drop a single female into a company; suddenly, guys who have been best friends for years are at each other's throats and the solitary female finds herself the subject of special treatment and essentially receiving a free paycheck.

Xenonauts wise, I think this is a good addon. Real life need not interfere with gamelife. I also think, artwise, that you're on the right track.

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Females in combat arms would work if the units are kept to separate "Female only/Male only".

Ah, separate but equal? Yeah, that's always worked in US history, absolutely nothing can go wrong with that.

As for the mod, looks interesting though I'm at a loss for why it's still going if Chris already confirmed female soldiers in the game. Is this to give them their own BattleScape sprites?

Edited by Kalexon
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Ah, separate but equal? Yeah, that's always worked in US history, absolutely nothing can go wrong with that.

I didn't say "separate but equal." Men and women are not equal and the military does not acknowledge them as being equal. What I said is that if you want women in combat arms and you want it to be functional and effective and not simply a public relations thing, then they have to be kept separate.

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I didn't say "separate but equal." Men and women are not equal and the military does not acknowledge them as being equal. What I said is that if you want women in combat arms and you want it to be functional and effective and not simply a public relations thing, then they have to be kept separate.

But this is actually and effect of our/your culture and conditioning. This can be changed. And would have to. I seem to recall some women

Such nit picky complaints has to go. :P
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+1 on the post above me

I didn't say "separate but equal." Men and women are not equal and the military does not acknowledge them as being equal. What I said is that if you want women in combat arms and you want it to be functional and effective and not simply a public relations thing, then they have to be kept separate.

Okay, that clarifies things. So what you're saying is it's not even separate but equal, one class of people are openly seen as being inferior despite still being fit for duty. You're right, that's much better.

as for "unit discipline" well that's funny.

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That's a silly argument since, upon enlistment/commission, we volunteer to give up our constitutional rights for the duration of our military service. Females in combat arms would work if the units are kept to separate "Female only/Male only". As much of a proponent of females being allowed in combat arms as I am, I am realistic enough to know that it would become some politicized and PC thing. As it is, the easiest way to destroy unit cohesion is to drop a single female into a company; suddenly, guys who have been best friends for years are at each other's throats and the solitary female finds herself the subject of special treatment and essentially receiving a free paycheck.

Now in Sweden we don't actually give up any rights or somesuch upon enlistment/conscription, and I speak from experience when I say that it is not necessarily so that women are given special treatment or becoming sowing dissent among the men. I should perhaps add that my unit had 25% females (10 out of 40, so that's a pretty exact number, and it kinda goes away from the point of a single female), but we served for 11 months and there was never any special treatment or some such. What did come up was the inability of some of the women to serve in the role they were given. For example we had a machinegunner who couldn't lift her FNMAG, but similar complaints came up regarding some of the men as well (a guy who desperately wanted the position of machinegunner/loader but wasn't physically fit for it).

Xenonauts wise, I think this is a good addon. Real life need not interfere with gamelife. I also think, artwise, that you're on the right track.

On this we agree. I hate those silly fantasy armors, but that might just be me?

Jean-Luc: I'd like to think that's not serious, but with Americans you can never be too sure... No offense intended to any Americans on this board, just to their media...

Edited by Swe_Racoon
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For example we had a machinegunner who couldn't lift her FNMAG, but similar complaints came up regarding some of the men as well (a guy who desperately wanted the position of machinegunner/loader but wasn't physically fit for it).

Wha? The FN MAG is 12kg according to Wikipedia. 12kg while a bit weighty, and knowing Wikipedia, is probably the unloaded weight, that isn't too hard of a lift.

While I admit I'd struggle to lift it and move with it one handed over anything other than a small distance due to not being the strongest of chaps or a trained soldier, not being able to even lift it at all is utterly bizarre for someone who's responsible for the weapon.

Surely your CO reassigned the role to someone more suitable?

Oh, and Jean-Luc's link is to the excellent Onion News, which is a spoof news site. And bloody brilliant.

Edited by Buzzles
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Jean-Luc: I'd like to think that's not serious, but with Americans you can never be too sure... No offense intended to any Americans on this board, just to their media...

:P It's a show that's called "onion news network" with a onion followed by 2 Ns as their logo. If that doesn't tell you alll you need to know then I don't know what anymore. :)

My favorite part is when the "reporter" asks how many soldiers life one gay person is worth, and the answer comes without hesitation.

Wha? The FN MAG is 12kg according to Wikipedia. 12kg while a bit weighty, and knowing Wikipedia, is probably the unloaded weight, that isn't too hard of a lift.

I would assume that the person is weighed down by 30-50 kilos of gear (or however much that weighs) in addition to the 12kg weapon.

Edited by Gorlom
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Wha? The FN MAG is 12kg according to Wikipedia. 12kg while a bit weighty, and knowing Wikipedia, is probably the unloaded weight, that isn't too hard of a lift.

While I admit I'd struggle to lift it and move with it one handed over anything other than a small distance due to not being the strongest of chaps or a trained soldier, not being able to even lift it at all is utterly bizarre for someone who's responsible for the weapon.

Yeah, 12kg is about right for a loaded FNMAG (depends a bit on if you run with 50 or 100 rounds though). In her defense there are alot of other factors to add in. The gunner would usually carry at least 250 extra rounds (often more, the gunner in my squad would load up belts wherever they would fit, including the FNMAG stock and his helmet). Add to that the body armor at around 12-13kg and the combat vest coming in at around 5-10kg. I know from experience its very tiring to use in an offensive role (which I did several times when our regular gunner was "killed"), but not being able to keep up with your squad while on the offensive is, as my captain used to call it, "för dåligt" (as in that it being worse than bad).

I don't think she ever picked up the FNMAG again. Now that I think about it, we had no female machinegunners or loaders in the platoon. Some of them served as AT4 gunners (which can be tiring as hell too, I did most of my service as one), but most of them struggled there too. It actually fell to the squad leaders to assign which soldier would do what. As a result of me having the most extensive training in my squad, I became something of a Jack-of-all-Trades (A bit of rifleman here, some AT4 there, add some FNMAG and finish off with a tad of radioman).

But as I was stating, I don't want a machinegunner who can't lift his/her gun. So long as the person can do that though, I don't care whether they're male or female.

And Onion News I've never heard of. It does seem to warrant further investigation, however :P

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ONN is pretty brilliant.

My experience with women in the field is pretty similar. Some were not fit, as a fat lazy guy wouldn't be either, while others do just fine. The force multiplier weapons are a bit heavy indeed. We still use the MG3, but there's talk of replacing it. And the CG 84mm recoilless rifle. It's a beast to lug around with, and is my current position. It's too heavy to be used in offensive action by unfit men and women tbh. (Including me.)

After a lugging that thing through the forest, doing the assault, and then being called in to do medic stuff, since I'm also one of few competent medics, and carry a "wounded" to the extraction point I was totally destroyed.

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+1 on the post above me

Okay, that clarifies things. So what you're saying is it's not even separate but equal, one class of people are openly seen as being inferior despite still being fit for duty. You're right, that's much better.

Men and women are not equal. There are things that men are intrinsically better at doing and there are things that women are intrinsically better at doing; I should think that is obvious. It really has nothing to do with social and status equality, it has everything to do with physical and psychological differences. There will be some women who are able to meet the standards required of a competent and functional combat arms unit and, if the motives and intent of leadership is pure, then they should be encouraged. There are many men, both in and out of combat arms, who are also unable to meet those standards. If women want to be in combat arms, then let them, but make them meet the same standards as male combat arms soldiers and place them in formations that are effective instead of formations that are "socially acceptable".

People in general are not "equal"; there are varying degrees of intelligence and aptitude. In the interest of equality, do I blunt the sharpest of minds and atrophy the strongest of muscles?

as for "unit discipline" well that's funny.

Yes, and those arguments were silly, but they have nothing to do with differences in gender. Like most reasonable people, I don't see any inherent problem with homosexuals in the military. I have found the many arguments against them to be senseless and it still has nothing to do with gender differences.

Now in Sweden we don't actually give up any rights or somesuch upon enlistment/conscription, and I speak from experience when I say that it is not necessarily so that women are given special treatment or becoming sowing dissent among the men. I should perhaps add that my unit had 25% females (10 out of 40, so that's a pretty exact number, and it kinda goes away from the point of a single female), but we served for 11 months and there was never any special treatment or some such. What did come up was the inability of some of the women to serve in the role they were given. For example we had a machinegunner who couldn't lift her FNMAG, but similar complaints came up regarding some of the men as well (a guy who desperately wanted the position of machinegunner/loader but wasn't physically fit for it).

It's a bit different in the US Army/military; at the time of enlistment/commission, we relinquish all constitutional rights and privileges and instead, accept the rights and privileges granted by the Uniform Code of Military Justice; this fact is made aware to all enlistees and, I assume, all future officers as well; if not then, well, it is hardly uncommon knowledge. At any rate, a military is a dictatorship and needs to function as one.

For physical fitness standards, we vary by age group and by gender. The standards that a female between the ages of 18-21 is significantly lower than those required by a male in the same age group. Unlike some people who believe it is "unfair" I recognize that it is a standard based on the physical differences in a female's body. Individually, of course, there are some females who can outperform many males, but I am not personally a fan of expecting an exception to become the rule.

We also have similar issues with the M240b, but as it is a weapon mostly found in combat arms formations, females do not typically find themselves carrying it. Exceptions occur, of course, but it is not the norm.

Meh, I actually agree on that. It's a goddamn travesty, but can you do?

Our media is atrocious and what we can do is, as a group, demand better.

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Xenonauts wise, I think this is a good addon. Real life need not interfere with gamelife. I also think, artwise, that you're on the right track.

Not to mention, in the case of an extraterrestrial invasion with huge mobilization, large troop commitment, and devastating losses in the field, it's possible we'd get our heads out of our asses and find a combat MOS for tough ladies! I don't know about you, but I've definitely met big strong women I wouldn't pick a fist fight with (and I'm not a small dude at all). I'd much rather they be out gunning down ET baddies than playing gofer & support roles :)

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Men and women are not equal. There are things that men are intrinsically better at doing and there are things that women are intrinsically better at doing; I should think that is obvious. It really has nothing to do with social and status equality, it has everything to do with physical and psychological differences.

Agreed.

For physical fitness standards, we vary by age group and by gender. The standards that a female between the ages of 18-21 is significantly lower than those required by a male in the same age group. Unlike some people who believe it is "unfair" I recognize that it is a standard based on the physical differences in a female's body. Individually, of course, there are some females who can outperform many males, but I am not personally a fan of expecting an exception to become the rule.

I am of the opinion that standards should be based around the position, and not the applicant. The way it works in the Swedish Armed Forces is that everyone has the same requirements relative to the position they're applying/being considered for. This means we've only ever had one female ranger, for example, but it also means recruits are fit for their position and can perform it without issues.

We also have similar issues with the M240b, but as it is a weapon mostly found in combat arms formations, females do not typically find themselves carrying it. Exceptions occur, of course, but it is not the norm.

It is a weighty weapons, and does take a somewhat fit soldier to wield effectively for longer periods. And yes, I'd wager there are females who could wield it effectively, but I've never actually seen it happen. I've seen males who couldn't wield it effectively either.

Our media is atrocious and what we can do is, as a group, demand better.

Ought to put Rupert Murdoch out of business, is what we should do. Or at least remove his monopoly on western media.

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Wha? The FN MAG is 12kg according to Wikipedia. 12kg while a bit weighty, and knowing Wikipedia, is probably the unloaded weight, that isn't too hard of a lift.

Well, this is a challange to the Weapon Mods - create "Female Weapons"... Not that heavy weapons, but still the same weapon, in example.

fem-male.jpg

fem-male2.jpg

fem-male3.jpg

fem-male.jpg

fem-male2.jpg

fem-male3.jpg

fem-male.thumb.jpg.2c965900822f3f7d0cc31

fem-male2.thumb.jpg.43a4e851f92c69294f40

fem-male3.thumb.jpg.e9c0d70b76c306f01037

Edited by oracle1990
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For the Goldhawk types, a query about female soldiers' names. I know that the implementation of female Xeno-troopers was only definitively added to the game's features very, very recently, but some detail-oriented person is bound to ask this sooner or later, so I might as well be the 'designated mug'. :D

A number of languages, including Russian, add feminine suffixes to a woman's surname - for instance, a Russian soldier named Pavel Kuznetsov might have a sister with the full name Ilyana Kuznetsova. Will there be separate lists/.xmls for male and female surnames in these languages? Will feminising surnames be left up to a player's ability to edit soldiers' names in-game? Or is there another option/solution that I've overlooked in my haste-to-post?

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Hey so quick question about female soldiers in game. I (and I expect I'm not alone) would prefer not to have female soldiers forced upon me. Will there be a way to turn this option off?

Probably not by the game itself, but shouldn't be too hard to mod.

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You can set the chance of the game picking a certain nationality in the soldier name file.

I imagine you could change the chance of the female names/nationalities to 0 if you wanted to remove them from the game easily.

Same goes for the males if you wanted to get rid of them.

Either that or just delete the entries so they are never chosen.

If you wanted to keep them but have them as a rarer occurrence to reflect the alternative history timeline of the game you could probably just make those numbers smaller.

As an aside I wonder if Chris would add a ticker number to the nationality/gender/other stuff as well.

You could set female soldiers to appear later in the game to reflect the changing views as the invasion progresses and avoid having them appear early on when the cold war era mentality may have prevented them from being present.

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