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While I do really like JA2, it's a different beast (merc relationships, militias, etc). However some aspects of it are very similar to XCOM. Someone looked into the JA2 code and wrote out how various aspects of the game work... I figured this if nothing else might be useful to look at and compare how things are being done here. stuff like bullet impact is pretty interesting: http://www.jagalaxy.com/index.php/faq/headrock-s-how-does-it-work/3005-Bullet-Impact.html

http://www.jagalaxy.com/index.php/faq/headrock-s-how-does-it-work/index.1.html

btw if kickstarter raises a grip of money, I'd recommend bringing in a few things from JA2:

* sprint/walk/crouch/crawl animations in combat, with a sliding scale of fast vs safe

* burst fire mechanic

* possibly the ability to aim at different body parts and have different debuffs on target, though this is of lesser impact due to non-humanoid enemies and no real helmet vs. armor distinction

Edited by erutan
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With suppression being added (and having recently started my ~2mio'th JA2 campaign (v113 + custom maps to be precise :cool:)) I would appreciate crouched and prone movement too! At least for the humans. I could totally live with aliens anatomically incapable of crouching :D

Sprinting isn't really necessary I think since someone already put that very eloquently (I'm paraphrasing here) "in an abstract turn based environment, a soldier using all his AP for movement is already sprinting". Forgot who said that, but it's a very valid point.

Burst we already have, don't we?

Aiming at body parts isn't necessary either imo and it would require a lot of additional work (possibly including reworking the armor system, the user interface and creating lots of new assets). Plus, who the hell knows where to aim at the giant flying octopus from space?

btw, is your link for vanilla JA2 or v113? Cause headrock is the creator of HAM, an awesome former v113 extension (meanwhile folded into the main mod).

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I'd disagree on the "all AP = sprint" point. You could use all your AP/TU for crawling, crouching, or walking as well. It's just a matter of how far you go during a certain time. So crawling is the safest, but least distance during a set amount of time, with sprinting covering the furthest distance, but with the least regard to zigging, zagging, etc that one can assume goes into the basic 'move'. I agree that we could probably just have move/crouch/crawl, but I think it'd be useful for suppression mechanics (disable walk and crouch) - you either crawl when you are behind cover, but can sprint (most effective range > time but you are putting yourself at higher reaction shot risk).

re: burst - we have it but afaik all shots are the same percent to hit, whereas in JA2 your first shot had a normal chance, then the accuracy decreased to a certain point (recoil etc). here a burst might be a flat 35%x3 chance to hit, whereas in JA2 you'd have 50% +35% + 20% (to make up numbers). it somehow feels like it's more accurate, or you have a better chance of at least having that first shot hit even if the numbers were the same (and they aren't of course).

re: aiming at body parts, you are probably right. perhaps just putting a higher damage coefficient range on aim4 would simulate aiming for a more vital area. http://xenowiki.goldhawkinteractive.com/index.php?title=Damage_System

re: the link I have no idea which version, it was more of a "hey here's a neat look at someone else's logic"

Edited by erutan
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It may be an innaccurate representative of all shots, but generally the shot you fire before you have recoil will be more on target. That said it's not as important as having at least a stationary prone and a crouchmove.

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Sprinting isn't really necessary I think since someone already put that very eloquently (I'm paraphrasing here) "in an abstract turn based environment, a soldier using all his AP for movement is already sprinting". Forgot who said that, but it's a very valid point.

It's nice to be called eloquent ;)

At the time I was arguing against having a separate sprint mode, as I always found that incredibly exploitable in Apocalypse turn-based: set everyone to sprint mode, run around the map, and then go back to walk mode once enemies appeared so you got the accuracy back. Crouch move and crawl would be a little different as there would presumably be a TU cost for changing mode, and there could be a functional difference regarding incoming fire and cover.

The issue with crouch-move and crawl I suspect will be animations; I suspect Chris will not want to add any more than he absolutely has to because of the ridiculous number of sprites he (and/or the animator) would have to add them to.

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Yes, I would much rather have the artist working on crouching and crawling than doing the work to add female soldiers at the 200k mark. I mean this is the Cold War, how many woman were in service then? Even nowadays, AFAIK most countries' elite units like the SEALS do not allow woman to join.

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@erutan looks like it's not going to be a stretch goal after all. Shame. I would have definitely preferred to have JA2's prone/crawling/walk-while-crouching mechanics, over spending copious amounts of time to create female soldiers. Had this option been in the survey, it would have been my #1 choice first. I frankly don't see the point in creating thousands of female sprites, and it's a waste of resources to produce something that adds no gameplay value to the game.

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Females shouldn't be that much effort - 25-30 portraits, however many armor sketches you need for the equip screen, and only sprites for the basic armor. That said I feel duckwalk + prone adds more to the tactical element obviously, though female soldiers are a nostalgic part of XCOM (and had a presence in JA2 as well).

I think part of the problem is that you really have to care about numbers / game mechanics to appreciate this, vs more visual / instant gratification kickstarter goals. Still would have been nice to see it an option... given vehicle xp made it in. :/

Edited by erutan
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