Tweak weapon balance

[erutan]

Since none of these weapons are "real" but just archetypes... drop the ammo on shotgun to 8 and the ammo on the sniper rifle to 12 (or 9 if it's heavy). Make ammo a little more precious and give the pitiful AR an advantage with it's clip size... I haven't had to reload yet in game (aside from the rocket launcher).

Assault Rifle

I still think burst on AR sucks.

It never/rarely hits more than one shot at range (realistically) so I'm better off using a sniper aimed shot for more damage.

It never/rarely hits more than twice at close range, so I'm better off using a shotgun and firing two shots for more damage. Even if it hits 3 times the only real bonus is there is no chance of reaction fire for 75 damage vs 35x2 on a shottie.

I suppose it still can do both roles, yet not as well, so it has some value, but it's really not growing on me aside from doing a lot of aim level 2 potshots.

Sniper

If you are going to make it a heavy weapon, it should do more damage (50 cal?) and probably take a tiny bit more TUs. It might be worthwhile to drag one of the previous sniper soviet models out, because I can't see it being a heavy weapon if it's just an AR with a scope and longer barrel.

[IceVamp]

Contrary to popular (FPS) belief, 50.cal sniper rifles are not actually designed to shoot personnel, and are heavy as shit, not at all made to be run around in a small battlefield with. If they are included in the game, however unlikely, they should definitely be heavy, definitely cost a trillion AP's to fire and definitely kill anything it touches, if you're able to hit it when moving in the same turn as firing. (We have a 50. cal squad in my unit. It's called MØR in Norway. Materiell Ødeleggelses Rifle = Matériel Destruction Rifle. They work with spotter and shooter, and target practice are usually large metal containers, or burnt out tanks from 1100 yards with multi-purpose ammuntion.)

I don't really see a problem with the AR. My squad is usually 2 precision, 1 MG, 5 AR.
I can burst fire and then snap shot, or even normal shot with the AR. Anything they don't manage to kill, I finish with the precision rifles.
The best weapon isn't necessarily the one doing the most damage, and that from a design standpoint would be very poor.

But, if you like, give QM's mod a spin and up the damage, or accuracy or other fiddling that makes it more to your liking. If it makes you enjoy the game more, go for it.

[jimbobfury]

erutan, I've been playing with the following setup and I find it makes the weapons feel a little more balanced. See what you think (it's pretty much along the same lines as your suggestions anyway)

Assault Rifle - Increased the aimed shot to hit chance by about 10%, so that becomes your reliable option for finishing off a weakened alien. Reduced the AP required for burst fire to the same as aimed (25 for both) so you have a straight up choice between one reliable shot or 3 less accurate shots, but with a higher damage potential. Primarily for close ranged shots. Damage across the board is unchanged.

Shotgun - Reduce the ammo count to 8. Increase the reload time to 15 AP. So, this is now your go to weapon for highly damaging close range engagements, but you're punished if you rush in with half a clip and don't finish off the target with your initial assault.

Precision rifle - At present the Precision rifle feels to me just like a more powerful assault rifle (without the burst mode) in that you can still run your rifleman around and have time to fire at any discovered threats. So, I wanted it to feel more like a dedicated marksman's weapon which requires planning and careful aim to use, but is devastating when you line up a shot. He shouldn't be at the front of an advance, that's the Assault rifle and shotgunner's job. So I made the following changes to fit the Precision Rifle into a support role:
Reduce the ammo count to 5 rounds (to encourage some reloading and to make you pick your shots more carefully)
Increase the weapon weight and ammo weight a little
Removed the first two shot options. Have two shot options as follows: 1) 35 AP - 110% accuracy 2) 50AP - 130% accuracy

As I say, this is purely how I want to play the game and other people may disagree with everything I've just written! But, it sounded similar to what you were suggesting, so I recommend you open up the weapons.xml and weapons_gc.xml files and have a play around! (Save a backup if you do though, just in case!)

Oh, one more thing; I tell you what made the most difference for my enjoyment of the game - increasing sight ranges. I've set aliens up to 20 and my troops up to 18 and the difference ingame is very noticable. Shots flying in at your troops from well within the darkness makes for some exciting missions.

[Buzzles]

I really wouldn't be worrying about the starting weapons, at least not until the game goes beta and we have access to all the other guns we're going to get.

[erutan]

Point taken on .50 being a ridiculous game mechanic for use against people... but at least something that looks/acts more like a real sniper rifle. Going from 5.56mm to 7.62mm should provide a nice damage boost.

@jimbo I was thinking of reducing the cost of burst time as well. I like your changes to the shotgun and precision rifle too, I'll give something along them a shot next time I start up a new game!

[jimbobfury]

Cool man, hope you like it when you test it out. I'm still not 100% happy with the balance between the Assault rifle and the Precision rifle so if you come up with any further changes along these lines then let me know!

[Gauddlike]

The good point about balancing the starting weapons Buzzles is that the later tiers have versions that fill the same roles.
If you have refined those roles already then you know where to start on the new weapons as well.

Can I suggest putting a table of values together when you have a balance you are almost happy with?
Posting your weapon stats on here will help others, including Chris, when they come to tweak the values themselves.

[Commissar Pancakes]

Lol. .50 caliber rifles are considered "Anti-Material" rifles for a reason (Originally designed to incapacitate TANKS).

I've also found that, though more expensive in terms of AP, the Precision Rifle has been way better than the AR (though I barely use burst). The only reason why I just haven't equipped all my guys (aside from the two guys with shotguns) with them is that they're already pretty weighty (possibly due to all those lovely 7.65x51mm NATO rounds that I keep picturing it fires).

[erutan]

I like the idea of taking away the bottom two tiers on the precision rifle, but I was thinking - what if we keep snapshot as an extremely inaccurate "firing from the hip with a big bulky weapon" then nix normal and have the top two tiers very accurate.

e.g.

1 - 2x AP - =< 40% accuracy

2 - N/A

3- 35 AP - 110% accuracy

4 - 50AP - 130% accuracy

[jimbobfury]

My reasoning for taking away any sort of snap fire for the precision rifle was to either;
- make sure your sniper is never your point man. Keep him back, in a suitable firing position ready to make a shot at a moments notice or
- promote the use of weapon switching, so that he'd have a pistol as a backup weapon for moving to position, but a rifle in his pack for when he's ready to set up camp.

But, that's just me! That's the great thing about how easy the weapon stats are to mod, you can tweak it just how you like.