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Thread: Suppression Mechanics

  1. #91
    WishfullThinker Gorlom's Avatar
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    all-at-once burst or one-at-a-time burst both has it's advantages. The all-at-once takes less time and is less bothersome to watch in certain situations. The one-at-a-time sets a different atmosphere and adds a bit of anticipation if you can bother with the wait and don't have 10 round bursts.

    To be honest I'm torn between the two camera systems, and can't really chose one over the other. I'll apriciate the visual representation system regardless if Chris stick to what he got or changes it.


    As for the rest of the discussion I think you and I have come as far as we will be able to regarding this catmorbid.
    Let's agree to disagree.

  2. #92
    Moderator Gauddlike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorzahg View Post
    Do we have to have suppressive fire in Xenonauts? Isn't the risk of getting reaction fired the same thing?
    Suppression as it has been suggested would be an action that you perform to influence an enemies decision on which action to perform.
    The enemy would also be able to do the same on you.
    Reaction fire is something that you leave time for in the hope that it can do some damage.

    Unless reaction fire was significantly reworked I don't really see how it would have the same effect as the suppression systems suggested.
    Now you could tweak the reaction fire rules so that units who had been taking fire were more likely to get hit by reaction shots to represent a suppression type effect.
    That would be tough to balance for me as it would overly benefit the defenders in any given situation.

    Making reaction fire more common, more accurate or whatever you decide on to make it more of a deterrent (and therefore more likely to suppress the player) would also make it far more deadly.
    That could see you getting troops killed just because you hadn't seen that alien standing behind a rock.
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  3. #93
    Sergeant Gorzahg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauddlike View Post
    Suppression as it has been suggested would be an action that you perform to influence an enemies decision on which action to perform.
    The enemy would also be able to do the same on you.
    Reaction fire is something that you leave time for in the hope that it can do some damage.

    Unless reaction fire was significantly reworked I don't really see how it would have the same effect as the suppression systems suggested.
    Now you could tweak the reaction fire rules so that units who had been taking fire were more likely to get hit by reaction shots to represent a suppression type effect.
    That would be tough to balance for me as it would overly benefit the defenders in any given situation.
    And reaction fire or at least the risk doesn't influence what you do? If you know a bunch of aliens are watching the windows of a building that you have guys in your not going to move you men in front of said windows unless you have no other way of safely getting into line of sight of the aliens. So essentially your guys are suppressed.

    Making reaction fire more common, more accurate or whatever you decide on to make it more of a deterrent (and therefore more likely to suppress the player) would also make it far more deadly.
    That could see you getting troops killed just because you hadn't seen that alien standing behind a rock.
    This reminds me of the original.

  4. #94
    Moderator Gauddlike's Avatar
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    Reaction fire risk has a minimal influence as I said.
    It is supposed to mimic suppression I guess but it isn't a particularly good, or interesting way of doing it.
    The only way you would know if aliens had a window covered and AP left to reaction fire on you is after you have already walked into it and they have used their AP.
    It was not a deterrent because you didn't know about it and it is no longer a deterrent because it has already happened.

    The suppression systems are an action that is taken to influence the enemy.
    If the enemy suppress your troops then you know your effectiveness has been reduced.
    That becomes a deterrent to certain actions.
    You know that their accuracy is reduced, or you will be less able to make it to the next bit of cover, so you have to consider your options.
    Devil's Advocate and forum moderator

  5. #95
    Sergeant Gorzahg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauddlike View Post
    Reaction fire risk has a minimal influence as I said.
    It is supposed to mimic suppression I guess but it isn't a particularly good, or interesting way of doing it.
    I agree, I'm just worried that we may end up with or waste time on a complicated/exploitable/pointless mechanic. I mean if fire multiple shots and or volleys at an alien they're either gonna be dead, wounded (tho this only helps if being hurt affects accuracy like in the original(does it?) or they are going to be one of the tougher aliens that can't be suppressed anyway.

    The only way you would know if aliens had a window covered and AP left to reaction fire on you is after you have already walked into it and they have used their AP.
    It was not a deterrent because you didn't know about it and it is no longer a deterrent because it has already happened.
    Its still a deterrent because you don't know how much AP they have left. I guess reaction fire is more like area denial then proper suppression.

    The suppression systems are an action that is taken to influence the enemy.
    If the enemy suppress your troops then you know your effectiveness has been reduced.
    That becomes a deterrent to certain actions.
    You know that their accuracy is reduced, or you will be less able to make it to the next bit of cover, so you have to consider your options.
    I'm not against a suppression mechanic, just as long as its simple and isn't too crippling.

  6. #96
    Beloved Leader Chris's Avatar
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    Unfortunately my thoughts for this thread can be summed up as "TL;DR", given the last time I tried to tackle it it was a mere 3 pages long. I'm sure once we've got a basic system in place we'll be able to iterate it and see what works best.

    I mostly made this post to complement Gorzagh on his avatar, as it made me smile.
    Chris England - Xenonauts Project Lead
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  7. #97
    WishfullThinker Gorlom's Avatar
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    It does have a bit of a Leroy Jenkins feel too it.

  8. #98
    I got sidetracked from actually doing things today into playing the alpha more and reading the forum heh. Here's my two cents after reading most of the thread.

    * all shots have some suppressive value, higher caliber have more. if you want to use the AP of 5 soldiers taking potshots at someone behind cover, feel free! also agree that armor needs to be taken into account relative to caliber/dmg. to simplify: only heavy weapons get a suppression bonus (sniper, launcher, MG), armor reduces suppression rating by x%.
    * burst mode changed to a more JA2 like model - initial shot is accurate ala aim2 then it drops off (and can level somewhere for long bursts, how the numbers balance would be solely based on gameplay, but having accuracy drop off provides suppressive value in misses and also limits the OP nature of firing a long burst without having to create a separate "suppressive fire" and you at least have a good chance of having that first shot hit then the rest is distance and the RNG gods). maybe this is why I don't like the Xeno AR yet, the burst feels wrong.
    * suppressed units can only fire an accuracy penalized burst or snapshots - don't look too long, spray and pray, etc
    * i like the idea of a smaller detection/vision range of suppressed targets
    * having this be a bar that overlays bravery in some way sounds good
    * not sure how the cone aoe thing will work in practice, having units in an area be affected by bullet proximity seems the cleanest.
    * how suppression tapers off should be handled by playtesting what feels best

    Now onto the great question, what to do about movement and AP? I like the two different reactions based on cover. Once someone is suppressed enough the following conditions may occur:

    Rattled: in addition to the above vision/aiming debuffs the target decides to make a run for it. no AP penalty (perhaps even have moving take less AP?) but they are easier to hit as they are blindly hauling ass for cover, making them prone to reactionary fire. optionally: they cannot fire but are forced to use all their APs moving.

    Hunkering: in addition to the above vision/aiming debuffs, the targets AP cost to move shoots up (to some percent that makes sense gameplay wise) but they become harder to hit / gain a bonus from any cover (head down, cowering, etc).

    This would either occur programatically (less than .x cover) or possibly player choice?

    Certain aliens would be immune to this - robots, mindless rampagey melee beasts, etc. beeps and rawrs need not apply.

    In the ideal world there would be more move types in addition to move/crawl - if there was sprint/normal/crouch/crawl we could say Rattled can only run, and Hunkering can only crawl. Movement types would make you more or less susceptible to reaction fire normally, but obviously cost more AP the slower you go per distance. Silly sprite rendering! In any case we can approximate those things via AP cost tweaking.
    Last edited by erutan; 05-07-2012 at 04:10.

  9. #99
    Sergeant Gorzahg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    I mostly made this post to complement Gorzagh on his avatar, as it made me smile.
    Yay I'm special! Everyone must be so jealous of me right now.

  10. #100
    WishfullThinker Gorlom's Avatar
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    I have been since I first saw your avatar.

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