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Agreed with thothkins. It definitely has potential added value, but would require a mountain of work to achieve. I'd see underwater missions as a rare potential way to have amped risk/reward off the charts. Not to mention the sheer terror inducing power of the deep.

I'll join him at the dream hookah and take a puff...

I would have loved an implementation of TFTD that scaled its frequency of occurrence in parallel to your chosen difficulty. A few, rare underwater missions to add that "You want us to go WHERE and do WHAT?" in standard games. An invasion from every which way for the masochistic or the geniuses on harder difficulties.

And think of all the glorious concept art you could get out of sub pens / naval bases.

Admittedly, it would massively all benefit if we had a good tale-teller to weave a suitably plausible scenario for all of this. I've always been fond of arrogantly humano-centric plots; have it be another bunch of aliens (not reinforcements) who are opportunistically hoping to sieze earth for themselves.

I've admittedly got a poor head for this. Gorlom, since you seem painfully aware of all the holes this presents to you, can I interest you in a step into this madness? Can you weave a fiction that will stand the test?

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Agreed with thothkins. It definitely has potential added value, but would require a mountain of work to achieve. I'd see underwater missions as a rare potential way to have amped risk/reward off the charts. Not to mention the sheer terror inducing power of the deep.

I'll join him at the dream hookah and take a puff...

I would have loved an implementation of TFTD that scaled its frequency of occurrence in parallel to your chosen difficulty. A few, rare underwater missions to add that "You want us to go WHERE and do WHAT?" in standard games. An invasion from every which way for the masochistic or the geniuses on harder difficulties.

And think of all the glorious concept art you could get out of sub pens / naval bases.

Admittedly, it would massively all benefit if we had a good tale-teller to weave a suitably plausible scenario for all of this. I've always been fond of arrogantly humano-centric plots; have it be another bunch of aliens (not reinforcements) who are opportunistically hoping to sieze earth for themselves.

I've admittedly got a poor head for this. Gorlom, since you seem painfully aware of all the holes this presents to you, can I interest you in a step into this madness? Can you weave a fiction that will stand the test?

I'm sure there are many satisfactory scenarios though I fear I'm not that capable/suitable to come up with them. It would help haveing access to Chris complete story. It would also help if I wasn't personally convinced there is close to zero chance for aquatic life to develope opposable thumbs and tools (and thereby higher technology)=P

I guess TFTDs solution with clones and surgical modification to aquatic life is the most likely/stisfactory way to go imo. Maybe they didn't solve global warming on their old planet and everything got submerged when their polar icecaps melted =P. Forcing them to adapt to marine life.

One has to wonder why they don't go for Neptue or some moon like Titan, Callisto or Europa (quick wikipedia search for astronomical bodies with water on them). You could force it by saying ExtraTerra-forming possibilities are limited to them or they are dependant on sunlight/proximity to the sun.

As for their reasons (be it search for new home after a catastrophe, biological resources, expanding empire or malicious propaganda from a third or fourth party claiming mankind is intending to kill them) I don't really care as long as it's not part of the reproductive cycle of a horny mindcontrolling spacewalnut. (oh how I hate Aftershocks backstory)

In the end Sunshard I expect you to be able to come up with something better then me to be honest.

Edited by Gorlom
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Nastynative, it's not a figure of speech, at least not outside of America, it's missusing the word plain and simple. Other people missunsing the term is not an excuse for you doing so if you know better. If you don't simply take the new knowledge to heart and stop defending the degradation of the english language.

Underwater missions has been suggested before you came along. It has been discussed and made clear by Chris that he won't be including it.

I'm saddened that you still can't elaborate as to why underwater missions are neccessary over other similar but less time consuming tilesets/missiontypes. From your last post it seems it has to do more with your memory of TFTD and how it compared (with mods) to EU then something tangible that you can explain.

I think your done posting on this thread. Unless you have something to add about underwater missions.

Since you dont agree that it would be fun I see no point you posting your bullshit in this thread.

There are tons of other threads you can go attack on this forum.

I did a search on Underwater Missions and I didnt see a post dedicated

to underwater missions. There might have been a mention of it here

and there, but no dedicated underwater post. Unless the seach bar is not working!

Another thing that some of you guys are not understanding is the fact

that adding such missions would make this game so much bigger.

More weapons a bigger tech tree more vehicles etc.

I would be willing to pay way more then 20 bucks for a game like that!

Making a sequel about TFTD would be a horrible idea.

Instead of making one complete game like the (mod) I used to play.

Now we would have 1 half of the game and then a sequel with the

other half. Why not combine them?

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Another thing that some of you guys are not understanding is the fact

that adding such missions would make this game so much bigger.

More weapons a bigger tech tree more vehicles etc.

I would be willing to pay way more then 20 bucks for a game like that!

Yeah, and that is exactly the problem. The game would never get finished. As it stands, re-making and improving the first X-COM is already enough work for a small indie team to make them feel real relief when the game finally gets done. Chris and his team are just not willing to invest even more in Xenonauts, and frankly, I'd rather have UFO:EU in a nice new version than hybrid EU/TFTD vapourware and a burnt-out game developer.

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I think your done posting on this thread. Unless you have something to add about underwater missions.

Since you dont agree that it would be fun I see no point you posting your bullshit in this thread.

There are tons of other threads you can go attack on this forum.

Are you sure you havent mistaken this discussion forum for a blog of some kind? I am disagreeing with you and seeking a discussion about it, I'm not attacking you. I'm acctually trying to do you a favour, but you are so stuck in your mindset that you can't read my posts with the tone in which I intend them. All you do is go on the defensive and instead of answering me you come with accusations. You specificly accused me of not letting anyone else have any opinion other then mine. Aren't you bashing me for disagreeing with you?

Another thing that some of you guys are not understanding is the fact

that adding such missions would make this game so much bigger.

More weapons a bigger tech tree more vehicles etc.

I would be willing to pay way more then 20 bucks for a game like that!

Now we are getting somewhere, finally something substantial that makes me understand why you want the underwater tileset specifically. Finally an argument for it.

Making a sequel about TFTD would be a horrible idea.

Instead of making one complete game like the (mod) I used to play.

Now we would have 1 half of the game and then a sequel with the

other half. Why not combine them?

Technically haveing areas where UFOs dont leave crashsites is a balance machanism that was mostlikely thought out specifically when considering EU and TFDT. It's a very weak argument since I haven't acctually played the mod that combines land and sea.

I can understand why you consider a merger a "whole game" and why you would prefere it since you have acctually tried it. I agree that it would be interesting and that it is sad it is so timeconsuming. Too timeconsuming for Chris to want to include it in retail.

Edited by Gorlom
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All I got from this post "Its a weak idea"

Again I must point out your view

is not the only view of this game

as hard as that is to accept!

Why are still posting in this thread?

You not are adding anything to this discussion!

We know you don’t agree with it by now!

You basically repeat the same bullshit over and over again.

Please if you don’t like the idea it would be great if you would

stop posting here.

Or start your own thread "Why Underwater missions are a bad idea"

Your one of those people that everybody hates, because you

give peeps headaches with your know it all attitude!

I feel sorry for you bro!

The point you just got was made a while back!

Everyone keeps saying it’s going to take a lot more man

power. That goes without saying!

Also suggestions are just that Im not holding a knife to Chris'

neck saying he must add it. Its simply a suggestion thats it.

This message is hidden because Gorlom is on your ignore list.!

SWEET!

My Xenanouts forum experience has just been increased 100000000000 fold!:P

Edited by NastyNative
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On storyline:-

“The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy.”

As the original EU was a combination of UFOlogy and UFO the TV series, TFTD was a cross between the Cthulhu Mythos and some 1950s horror movies for the minions. Let’s take a brief look at some sources.

XCom source

65 million years ago – An impact in the Yucatan region contributes to the fall of the dinosaurs. The impact was the arrival of T’Leth. The city systems keep the core and it’s inhabitants alive, but in stasis.

Periodically, over aeons, the computer systems in T’Leth awaken some of the inhabitants to set up synomium sites. These become the minions XCom face in TFTD.

Synomium sites are set up to control minds across the world. These sites are also used to contact stellar cousins. These communications are seemingly in vain and the core sleeps on. However, the call is heard, resulting in the arrival of the Brain and the Ethereals, as seen in EU.

1999 - The Ethereals are forced to send a signal to T’Leth, just as their Cydonian base is overwhelmed by XCom. The signal is either a message that the cities inhabitants and minions are on their own, all of the information held by the Ethereals or the beginning of a reanimation cycle.

Once reanimated the dread alien in T’leth will reach out and control the minds of everything on the planet. Hybrid foetuses form links between the alien and the populations of the world. The Ethereals were presumably looking to pacify the planet to aid in this endeavour, having spent time locating the sunken city.

2041 – the minions of T’Leth begin the final stages of their plans to reanimate the alien in the city’s core. Another entity is resurrected to combat them…XCom.

"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming."

Cthulhu Mythos

200 million years ago, R’lyeh arrives or is built by the Great Old Ones using material they bring with them from the stars. It’s inhabitants war with the Elder Things.

Having secured their place in the world, the inhabitants go into an aeons long slumber until the stars come right once more.

Early humans are contacted and moulded by the sleeping R’lyeh inhabitants. No man has ever seen them.

R’lyeh sinks in a great cataclysm. The sinking ends the communication between the city and humanity. Humanity is contacted through dreams. The Cthulhu Cult spreads.

1907 – An entity related to the inhabitants of R’lyeh is encountered in New Orleans.

1925 – A tip of the city rises once more, causing global nightmares. The Cthulhu Cult is very active and a ship is encountered approaching the city. However, continued upheavals force the city to sink once more.

It is fated that R’lyeh will rise again. The Great Old Ones will awaken when the stars are right once more. They will find mankind waiting for them, having become almost cousins to them.

So, the TFTD storyline mirrors the Call of Cthulhu. Sunken cities with interested minions looking to raise their dread God back from a death that is not death.

That cult would never die till the stars came right again, and the secret priests would take great Cthulhu from His tomb to revive His subjects and resume His rule of earth.

It doesn’t really matter how the Xenonaut aliens came to the solar system, or where the final mission is held.

It could be the dark side of the moon, hollowed out Phobos, Cydonia, a hidden tenth planet, a hidden mothership in the asteroid belt, a fleet from a black hole linked to another galaxy/dimension.

As far as TFTD is concerned, it’s why they are there that’s important. That’s to resurrect their alien god. To become, or continue to evolve into, the great old ones.

The result would be an acceleration in the transformation of the planet’s inhabitants into something it could use. As the Ethereals use their races including the Sectoids, the Brain (analogous to a Lovecraftian horror encountered in New Orleans in the Call of Cthulhu) uses the Ethereals. Their alien master uses everything.

It's not an extinction event. Humans would simply be transformed or destroyed. The theme of transformation is also evident in the EU game if you look at the goals of the aliens and also the advancements of XCom.

If you don't like sunken cities, there are always lost cities instead, such as the Elder Thing city in Antarctica or Hollow Earths etc.

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All I got from this post "Its a weak idea"

Again I must point out your view

is not the only view of this game

as hard as that is to accept!

Why are still posting in this thread?

You not are adding anything to this discussion!

We know you don’t agree with it by now!

You basically repeat the same bullshit over and over again.

Please if you don’t like the idea it would be great if you would

stop posting here.

Or start your own thread "Why Underwater missions are a bad idea"

Your one of those people that everybody hates, because you

give peeps headaches with your know it all attitude!

I feel sorry for you bro!

The point you just got was made a while back!

Everyone keeps saying it’s going to take a lot more man

power. That goes without saying!

Also suggestions are just that Im not holding a knife to Chris'

neck saying he must add it. Its simply a suggestion thats it.

This message is hidden because Gorlom is on your ignore list.!

SWEET!

My Xenanouts forum experience has just been increased 100000000000 fold!:P

Am I only allowed to post in this thread if I agree with OP to 100%?

Is it just me that thinks he is reading things into my posts that aren't there, or do other people think that I'm attacking posts rather then trying to discuss them? IE do I need to closer consider how I phrase things?

Other then possibly the lightyears issue I can't even see any hint of attacking Native in my posts.

Edited by Gorlom
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Am I only allowed to post in this thread if I agree with OP to 100%?

Is it just me that thinks he is reading things into my posts that aren't there, or do other people think that I'm attacking posts rather then trying to discuss them? IE do I need to closer consider how I phrase things?

Other then possibly the lightyears issue I can't even see any hint of attacking Native in my posts.

I think NastyNative has just got the hump with the lightyear thing. You were rather blunt, even if I do agree with your sentiments on the correct usage of said term (and seemingly accepted incorrect usage thanks to mass media).

Although, it has taken me till 'Native's post on page two to understand what he was getting at, regarding Xenonauts being more like the combination mod he's played.

Personally...I'm kinda ok with one or the other, as it adds a further layer of decision to your tactics: Do you go through with the intercept over water and lose the crash site but gain small amounts of rep for funding, or do you go for gold by tailing the UFO and risking the fact it may escape?

From what I can see, striking a balance between both would be really, really hard. Either you'd end up with too many resources, the game could become too hectic, or you make everything cost more, which results in the game punishing you much more for failures, which would probably make the start of the game more akin to punching yourself in the family jewels.

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Gauddlike must be a mind reader he got my point on his 1st post.(3rd post)

When I play TFTD or EU I like to save alot.

Which means I always end up with tons of materials, because lets face it

this is game is really fun once you have more than a couple of bases.

I even go as far as reloading the game if my radar picks up a small ship and

try it again untill I get my self a Fighter or a Cruiser.

I mostly only use small ships to train my newbie soldiers.

I love collecting all the light years more advanced technology and use

it to fund my fast growth. So I cant see how too many resources would

make the game too hectic. With more bases you would be more incontrol

of the game but we dont want you punching you self in the jewels. :cool:

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While extending Xenonauts to include settings from both Enemy Unknown and Terror from the Deep is a cool idea at face value (and would be a welcome hit of nostalgia for some of us), it doesn't seem to be at all in the realm of possibility at this point in time.

The developers already have enough on their plates as it is to release this game on time and make it the definitive X-COM remake. Asking them to tack on a whole game's worth of material at this stage is an exercise in wishful thinking.

Edited by BuzuBuzu
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I really think you guys should cool it. This has been a very friendly forum full of constructive comments up to now. Please don't change that. I really don't want to fan the flames so I'll refrain from taking sides and try to keep this post as neutral as possible.

My personal opinion on the matter is this:

Underwater missions would be a nice addition if they were optional. Like the SF-checkbox in JA2. Why optional? Because for me they would be immersion breaking (high-speed subs, infantry combat at huge depths) and I'd prefer to play without them.

Additionally I think the huge amount of effort that would be needed to create all the necessary content could be put to much better use. IE I'd very much prefer the addition of S&R missions for downed Chinooks that ninjaed13 just proposed because I think they would add much more to the game without creating this much additional work. Same goes for other mission types that can use the tilesets & tech we already have, like infrastructure defense, VIP extraction and so on and so forth.

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I admitt I might have handled that lightyears issue poorly. But NastyNative seems to have gone on the defensive even before that and I just can't tell where I am supposed to be so hostile towards him. His colourfull responses may have coloured my responses in an unintentional way. Anyway I'll drop that now since he has stopped ignoreing what my posts contained and put me on ignore all together.

I don't really mind underwater missions either way. They are just another tileset for me. From NastyNatives point of view that it would be an additional aspect of the game and alot of extra content it looks appealing. But that's if the time and resources were available and if Chris didnt have other things he could implement that gives the same ammount of content with less effort like those mentioned by pack.wolf.

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Anyway this not something what need more discusion. There no any underwater missions in xenonauts, as well as there is no buyable little ponies, mars colonisation and parrallel worlds. It's naive and unexperienced(?) suggest begin to make different game for now.

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Hi, I just read this whole post now...Wow guys..really?

I don't want to pour petrol on this fire, although that would be really cool looking, rather I want to pour water on it, so long as it isn't an oil fire...

Just a few points: "Your one of those people that everybody hates, because you give peeps headaches with your know it all attitude!

I feel sorry for you bro!" (Quote from NastyNative) *Sigh* First off, I don't hate him, and I think, well I know, I don't have a headache and if I did it would be due to my migraines. He doesn't in my opinion (Yeah I typed it fully instead of your IMO crap) have a know it all attitude at all, in fact I think you are the annoying one, claiming his calmly made points are angry and "attacking" You are the only one to swear and call someone else's opinion "Bullshit"

Another point "It's called OC" I believe the term you are looking for is OCD, and that is extremely, well, extreme to call someone OCD for correcting a blatant misuse of a word. I think pedantic would suffice.

Thanks, now chill, it isn't happening so get over it.

PS-Gorlom countering your opinion is adding to the discussion, he is discussing with you.

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weaving around some of the earlier posts, I thought there was some discussion on incorporating TFTD concepts into the game.

That it's not going to appear in the game doesn't mean it can't still be discussed. It would be utterly futile in the short term to do so, but then it will feel right at home with the majority of posts on any forum :-)

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I found a Multiplayer mode video Nostalgia-ABOMB

Plus I came here in peace looking to make some friends and have some fun posting.

Instead I get a really annoying person trolling my post pushing to prove his point

which I could really care less about. I'll admit I went a little over board, but I'm from

jersey thats how we roll!

Underwater Missions would add so much to this game. I mean the earth is 70% water right?

I for one miss killing lobsterman with harpoons!

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Sigh.

Btw could it be all the underwater hills and valleys that you enjoy so much in TFTD NastyNative? Is it the gameplay or the feel of underwater missions with the airbubbles comming from the aquanauts...

Oh right, he has me on ignore someone else is going to have to ask him that question.

PS. Meh, after thinking about it: don't. He will just think you are attacking/trolling him. =(

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Hi, I just read this whole post now...Wow guys..really?

I don't want to pour petrol on this fire, although that would be really cool looking, rather I want to pour water on it, so long as it isn't an oil fire...

It would be great if you could stay intopic atleast.

Since you know what OCD is you can tell the thread is named

"Underwater Missions"

The issue has been solved (ignore list - they work wonders)

Ps: you just did the samething your asking us not to do!;)

LMFAO

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well I enjoyed toying with how the technologies, bases and storylines could go. So, I was quite happy with the thread.

I also found out that flamethrowers can actually work underwater, useful for combining both games and for dealing with forum posts in a variety of environments.

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