will we ever have a real community edition?

The "community" edition is not a real community edition, because it's not built by the community. Rather, it's built by just a couple, privileged people. With Goldhawk working on other games, support for Xenonauts will probably become a low(er) priority for them, and if they start building Xenonauts 2, they'll probably stop working on Xenonauts almost entirely.

So I ask, will we ever get a real community edition where any programmer can see the source and submit patches to improve the game? The patches could still be accepted, rejected, or edited by a couple privileged people for the official "community" edition, but anyone could fix a problem that they see in their own version of the game, or make the game how they'd like it to be.

People still have to purchase Xenonauts to get the art and other assets needed to make it work, so it wouldn't lead to rampant piracy. And with Xenonauts 2 coming, the older Xenonauts game should really pass into the community's hands rather than just becoming unsupported and unfixed.

Adam, i gave you an answer at other topic. But it seems you do not know the whole story..

Goldhawk already stopped for their support for Xenonauts with 1.59. Now they only try to port the game for other computers..

Community Edition aka XCE coders can see the code and they are directly patching the game from that code. At this time there is only Ilunak working on this project and he maybe knows the code more then the game coders themselves.. So it's already done what you asked.

Ilunak is working on the real code for game fixes, balance, new features, mod support and more. We modders use the XCE's new features to create more detailed mods.

Goldhawk already stopped for their support for Xenonauts... At this time there is only Ilunak working on this project... So it's already done what you asked.

Hi drages. On the contrary, it's exactly the opposite. Right now we have a game being made by just one person. It's not a community edition, it's Ilunak's edition. I'm sure he's doing good work, but he's just one person. And if Goldhawk no longer supports Xenonauts, then I think we should have a real community edition, where the community can contribute. Ilunak can still control the official "community" edition, but other programmers should be able to submit proposed patches to him, or to change their own version of the game if the changes don't fit Ilunak's personal vision.

Hi drages. On the contrary, it's exactly the opposite. Right now we have a game being made by just one person. It's not a community edition, it's Ilunak's edition. I'm sure he's doing good work, but he's just one person. And if Goldhawk no longer supports Xenonauts, then I think we should have a real community edition, where the community can contribute. Ilunak can still control the official "community" edition, but other programmers should be able to submit proposed patches to him, or to change their own version of the game if the changes don't fit Ilunak's personal vision.

This is not Ilunak's choice. The code is open for any coder who wants to be a Community coder. If you know enough c++ and got time, you can be a community coder too. As i know Ilunak has no control over it because i know 2 coder who stopped because of their RL issues. Ilunak is not modding so he does not change things at all, maybe a little and they can be changed just with numbers at xce balance/settings mods.

So there is no "other programmers".. this is the problem..

The code is open for any coder who wants to be a Community coder.

Do you know how somebody can get access?

If you know enough c++ and got time, you can be a community coder too.

Well, I do know C++ and have been programming for decades. I just played a full game with vanilla and was bothered by many problems. I don't know if those problems still exist in XCE, but if they do then I really want to fix them...

The "community" edition is not a real community edition, because it's not built by the community. Rather, it's built by just a couple, privileged people.

There, become privileged as well. I think being part of the community may be a prerequisite.

So I ask, will we ever get a real community edition where any programmer can see the source and submit patches to improve the game? The patches could still be accepted, rejected, or edited by a couple privileged people for the official "community" edition, but anyone could fix a problem that they see in their own version of the game, or make the game how they'd like it to be.

You know, it's not a very good idea to come to a new place that you don't know much about and start teaching something that you do not know much about either. The term you want is "Open Source". X:CE is not Open Source, but it is community made.

I think we should have a real community edition, where the community can contribute. Ilunak can still control the official "community" edition, but other programmers should be able to submit proposed patches to him, or to change their own version of the game if the changes don't fit Ilunak's personal vision.

We already do have one real community edition, thank you. And the community can contribute, that is, there's nobody stopping them except for themselves. If nobody except for me contributes, it's most probably because they don't have the time, the skill, or they just don't feel like doing so. Stamping "Open Source" on top is unlikely to change that.

Adam the biggest problem is time here and your love for this game.

Now you say you are a good coder which is very nice, and you want to fix the problems which is nicer, but can you go to the end? This is not something you can handle in one weekend. If you want a XCE coder, you just need to time for it. Ilunak is doing this for months non-stop, and as i said many ppl come and gone with very little or no result. The game engine is not so easy (even very very hard) to handle to fix or add something..

As the Ilunak said, your approach is a bit harsh and i don't know why you did so even you don't know whats going on..

And if you became a XCE coder, there is ME.. I will note you every week about some crazy modding things, i will use your name at my modding topics like "i hope AdamMil can do this at next XCE version" or "AdamMil should add ******* for ***** at my mod". I will be your nightmare!

Edited October 6, 2015 by drages

the community can contribute, that is, there's nobody stopping them except for themselves.

Well the page you linked to says that if you sign an NDA then they'll consider your application and might (or might not) accept you. Those are obstacles. But I don't know how strict they are.

You know, it's not a very good idea to come to a new place that you don't know much about and start teaching something that you do not know much about either. The term you want is "Open Source". X:CE is not Open Source, but it is community made.

I'm aware that X:CE is not open source. I am arguing that it should be more open, especially since Xenonauts is no longer officially supported. I still don't think "community edition" is a good name when only one person has access. But thank you for the link to that page. If Goldhawk is lenient and lets any community member have access if they want it, then I was wrong.

The game engine is not so easy (even very very hard) to handle to fix or add something..

It's true that I don't know bad the code is. Even Goldhawk said it was a terrible mess. Maybe it's very stressful. But I'm not promising anything at this point. :-P

As the Ilunak said, your approach is a bit harsh and i don't know why you did so even you don't know whats going on..

You may be right, and I'm sorry for speaking in ignorance, but I got my impression by reading the official "community edition" post ("What is Xenonauts: Community Edition & how do I get it?"), which does not give the impression that people can join. I looked in the X:CE forums and there was no obvious post saying how people can join. There should be a sticky post saying how to join, or the existing sticky post should have a link to the information about joining. Otherwise, the overall impression is that people cannot join this project, or cannot join easily.

And if you became a XCE coder... I will be your nightmare!

Hah, well, we will see. :-)

A coder don't come everyday for joining to XCE you know, but we show the way if someone asks. I didn't see anyone refused by Chris.

We took a long way with only Ilunak. He opened many ways to modders and map makers. At this point, playing Xenonauts without XCE is like a lemonade without sugar.

I welcome anyone who wants to make this any better. Just please understand me, i saw many ppl come here with passion and left with anything in short times. I hope you join to XCE and make it a team.

Just please understand me, i saw many ppl come here with passion and left with anything in short times. I hope you join to XCE and make it a team.

I understand. I have a strong desire to fix certain specific problems in the vanilla game that really bothered me. (The problem I mentioned with machine-gunners was one.) But maybe those are all fixed in XCE and there is nothing left for me to feel strongly about. XCE became available again on Steam today - earlier (e.g. yesterday) it was not available - so I am starting a new game with it. We will see...

I understand. I have a strong desire to fix certain specific problems in the vanilla game that really bothered me. (The problem I mentioned with machine-gunners was one.) But maybe those are all fixed in XCE and there is nothing left for me to feel strongly about. XCE became available again on Steam today - earlier (e.g. yesterday) it was not available - so I am starting a new game with it. We will see...

You are not a mod user as i see.. you stick at default versions..

Maybe I'd like to join as well, two years ago I was involved in a C++ project at my university which is available on GitHub https://github.com/PADrend. Unfortunately I do not much C++ programming at the moment mostly Java applications). But before doing this I would rather prefer to finish some projects I have recently started.

Maybe I'd like to join as well, two years ago I was involved in a C++ project at my university which is available on GitHub https://github.com/PADrend. Unfortunately I do not much C++ programming at the moment mostly Java applications). But before doing this I would rather prefer to finish some projects I have recently started.

Yes, that ufo models would help us much more at this time from you

You are not a mod user as i see.. you stick at default versions..

I tried not using any mods, but eventually I added "Hold the Line" and "Instant grenades" in my vanilla game.

Also, the problem with machine-gunners still exists in X:CE. Shooting through a wall causes the first few bullets to destroy the wall and the rest of the bullets to hit the empty space where the wall used to be. Grr. >:-[

Yes, that ufo models would help us much more at this time from you

That's true. And I don't want to overload me with work at the moment.

I tried not using any mods, but eventually I added "Hold the Line" and "Instant grenades" in my vanilla game.

Also, the problem with machine-gunners still exists in X:CE. Shooting through a wall causes the first few bullets to destroy the wall and the rest of the bullets to hit the empty space where the wall used to be. Grr. >:-[

As i said, at a test game for my mod, an alien hide just back of a wall. I used kinetic damage with mitigation (armour penetration). I fired to aliens tile behind the wall. I expected to see the wall crashed and alien will get hit. But when i fired the burst, the wall et cracked but not destroyed and the alien get hit some bullets and died. It was very cool ..

Here is an example setup:

The first 2-3 bullets destroy the wall. The other 7-8 bullets hit the space where the wall used to be. Nothing goes past the wall. This is something I want to fix...

Here is an example setup:

The first 2-3 bullets destroy the wall. The other 7-8 bullets hit the space where the wall used to be. Nothing goes past the wall. This is something I want to fix...

There was a code named "hypervelocity" or like that. This was a code for weapons and the purpose was, passing all the obstacles and continue until the total damage gets "0". So it was a code to create a bullet which is destroying everything on it's way (if the damage of the bullet is enough) and reach to the enemy with the damage left. It was a cool idea but a former XCE and i think a game coder as well, canceled the code because of the engine issues.

The game has issues about obstacles and bullets from the beginning. There is still many bug reports about aliens shooting soldiers behind walls. The bullets just fly like there is nothing in the way.. I played the game and i didn't see it but all of those things are part of the problem.

Also, the problem with machine-gunners still exists in X:CE. Shooting through a wall causes the first few bullets to destroy the wall and the rest of the bullets to hit the empty space where the wall used to be. Grr. >:-[

The game calculates the path of every shot the moment the weapon starts shooting, and at that point the obstacle still exists. Reworking that would probably be quite some "fun".

There was a code named "hypervelocity" or like that.

Interesting idea.

The game has issues about obstacles and bullets from the beginning.

Well, I will message Chris and see if I can at least fix this problem with burst-firing. Fingers crossed.

Well, I will message Chris and see if I can at least fix this problem with burst-firing. Fingers crossed.

You can't escape from me just with that..

The game calculates the path of every shot the moment the weapon starts shooting, and at that point the obstacle still exists. Reworking that would probably be quite some "fun".

Hey, I'm not a programmer, but wouldn't an easy fix be to make each shot of the 10 shots from the LMG be a separate instance of firing? Like, maybe script it is the first shot uses all the AP, and the next 9 shots are free. Then each bullet would be given a separate calculation for terrain.

If you get the access, don't be too shy to ask for help if needed. The entry barrier is quite high and most people didn't produce a single line of code in the end.

I am making more tests and my burst fire got no problem with walls at all. I target behind a heavy wall and the bullets continue to go after wall destroyed. I am testing this with 20 shot bursts so if something would go wrong, I would notice that. . Strange.