JoseG25 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 There is any thread or site where it is explained, I have some problems understanding covering system. Sometimes I think my soldier safe in cover and crouched and then some alien snipe him from the other corner of the map. Yes, I know that a 1% chance of hit could becomes a 100% dead soldier, but I usually didn't know if the cause of death was a bad positioning or he was well placed and just was unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 One more reason to install Community Edition It will, as of next version, show you cover when you move so you will know if your soldier is actually in cover or not. Other than that, the system is, I think, quite simple. Cover has a chance of blocking shots aimed at the soldier, and cover is directional - no protection from getting shot in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG25 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 One more reason to install Community Edition It will, as of next version, show you cover when you move so you will know if your soldier is actually in cover or not.Other than that, the system is, I think, quite simple. Cover has a chance of blocking shots aimed at the soldier, and cover is directional - no protection from getting shot in the back. But the problem comes with the angles for me, if I put a man on a rock or car, with wich angle works the cover?, and if I put him just making corner it will be covered from shoots coming from 45º angle? Another question comes with the bouilding'ss corners, sometimes I can't shoot an alien because angle say me 100% cover, then I put a soldier on similar covering position on the building's corner thinking he is in 100% cover and the alien snipes him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solver Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That should precisely become more clear in Community Edition 0.27. Also the system with looking and shooting around corners becomes more intuitive and works better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG25 Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 I still don't understand how works. I have just lose half of sqaud against sebillians (bad accuracy the autopsy says...) by missunderstanding the cover system, because I was "sure" I had 100% object cover. What angle does the cover work? I put here a draw, I understand the 90º shoot is covered, the 0º shoot is incovered, but the other 3 shoots? - Blue circle is soldier - 5 Stars are aliens - Black square is the covering object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Use two soldiers and aim with one at another using force-fire. It'll show you the path of the shot and with what objects it interferes. Or just don't overthink it. 60 is good, 45 and 30 is not. It's as simple as drawing a line to the center of the circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Sebillians don't have to hit very often to kill you. Are you counting the shots or the kills? Anyway. Each tile is sub-divided into 9 cells. Each cell is the same size. The game picks the cell which is most likely to ignore the most number of objects between itself and the target and draws an invisible line between that cell and the cell in the opponents' tile which is also most likely to ignore the most number of objects. When you understand that, you can understand how Line-Of-Fire works in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llunak Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 When you understand that, you can understand how Line-Of-Fire works in this game. Well, in that case you don't . A shot always goes to the central cell of the target's tile, only cells in the shooter's tile are checked for the one that provides the best shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Funny, could have sworn that's how it worked. Ho vell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I think it did, once, very temporarily (or maybe it was only discussed before the 'leaning' changes were made?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG25 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 For a reason that I don't know I can't do screenshots of game (just black screen or desktop). So I will try to explain with draw another strange moment: One soldier was behind a farm truck (with 100% blocking size), another was behind grass package (with 45% blocking size) and the alien was in open very far (I put it closer in the draw to not doing a huge post). My soldier behind the truck was sniped. Then I killed the alien and put anoter soldier where alien was and with surprise I saw that the soldier behind the package had the cover aplied but the soldier behind the truck wasn't covered. This is what I don't understand because the angle was obviously better in the soldier more far away (some angle betwen 75º an 90º), but he was what was uncovered while the soldier nearest yes had the cover aplied. Brown square: Farm truck 100% blocking Orange square: Grass package 45% blocking Blue circle: Soldier uncovered. Purple circle: Soldier covered. Red star: Alien I know that preassing "Ctrl" I can see the path of the shoot, but it is the path of the shoot from miy soldier to the alien, but I can't see the path of the shoot from the alien to my soldier to know if I am in cover or not. If I am wrong and there is a way to know the path of the "alien bullet" I would really be happy to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I have already tried to explain this to you. I will try again in bullet points. All tiles in the game are divided into 9 cells or if you like, the tile is sub-divided into 9 smaller tiles each of which is the same size. When something shoots, the game draws an invisible line, one cell thick between the shooter and the thing being shot. An object only counts as blocking if the invisible line crosses through one of more cells of the tile which holds the blocking object. The invisible line is measured from the best cell of the shooter which crosses the fewest objects to the middle cell of the thing being shot. (llunak, am I right on this one?) The invisible line always occupies exactly one cell. It cannot cross through two cells at once. The important thing to note is that it doesn't matter what percentage the blocking object is. If the invisible line between shooter and thing being shot can sneak around the object then it may as well may not be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG25 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I understood the system, but I still say that sometimes strange thins happens, like happened on my second draw where if we think in terms of the mechanic explained the nearest soldier must be more likely to be uncovered but what happened was the oposite thing. What are going against the logic of the mechanic explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 From testing I did a while ago now, I believe there may be some oddities in the LoF system occasionally such that it doesn't work quite how it should. At some point I might see if I can reproduce a few examples as it might be something that the X:CE folks would be interested in looking into. However, I don't think it happens all too often and it's something you can plan around in any case. Basically, corners and 1-tile wide cover spots are not safe places to leave soldiers. If you've suppressed an alien and they're more-or-less straight-on from where the soldier is positioned, that's probably ok (because the alien can't move to take a clear shot). Otherwise, avoid where you can. Taking a leaf out of XCOM:EU's book, hiding soldiers 1 tile away from a corner is a good way of keeping them out of LoF. Otherwise, seek out cover spaces which cover more than one tile (low walls, multi-tile props, or several props placed together) as these will give you a wider angle of protection. (Obviously, this isn't always possible. But my main point is that you just shouldn't rely on corners and small pieces of cover and if you use that as a general rule you don't need to worry too much about the exact angle of protection the cover gives you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (llunak, correct me if I'm wrong.) Jose, How the game draws the invisible line is the key point, there is no "this must" and "this must not". As far as I know, the invisible line can only ever occupy one cell at a time - it can't occupy two which means the invisible line is not always perfectly straight and you can see that when you force fire and draw LOS. The invisible line is always drawn from the best cell of the shooter, and while it is drawn towards the middle cell of the target, it does not have to pass through the middle cell to hit the target. The projectile can pass through any cell of the tile the target is in to register a clear LOF. That's the most difficult thing to understand, how LOF is determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 As far as I know, the invisible line can only ever occupy one cell at a time - it can't occupy two which means the invisible line is not always perfectly straight and you can see that when you force fire and draw LOS. Based on the testing I did a while back, I'm pretty certain this is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoseG25 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 In my opinion, something goes wrong with cover, for example I have just lost a man in a situation like this (blue circle is the soldier and red star is the alien). The strange was that my soldier couldn't see alien from the corner, but the alien could see and kill him from a ridiculous angle. And the logic of game mechanic should be that the soldier should have better chances to spot the alien rather than the oposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabill Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Yeah, that shouldn't happen. If you've been shot from that position, I'm fairly certain it's a bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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