[Suggestion]Dynamic TU System

So, back in the early days, Xenonauts used to have a Static TU system that would fixate TU firing actions regardless of the amount of TU each soldier has, which would definitely make the game rather easy in a sense....

But when the changes reverted the TU back to percentage rather than static, the game has been adjusted to a fairer system that wouldn't overpower any Veteran soldier in ground combat. But IIRC people were not happy because of the idea that Veterans were able to output more actions than rookies.

So, what I think could be done is having a dynamic TU system, where the TU firing action will be in percentile up to a certain limit, before reaching a threshold that would allow the experienced soldier more actions.

Say, if Soldier X reached above 80 TUs, 90 TU for instance

The Rifle Burst Fire takes up 60% of his TUs, which is about 54 TU for instance. But with a new dynamic system, the percentage TU is limited up to 80TUs worth of action, so the Burst Rifle Fire is reset to 48 TU.

So basically, a rookie will still have to take up 60% of his time to fir a burst, but if a veteran has more than 80 TUs worth, he can possibly fire 2 burst fires if he has 96 TUs

What do you guys think?

What should that achieve, besides making veterans even more powerful killing machines then they already are?

Suppose to give them more value as experienced soldiers that loosing one of them might be more painful than a rookie?

I'm not saying to make them like killing machines, but to let them feel more rewarding when you are able to reach soldiers on that level, just minute changes that can make it possible to allow a Vet to squeeze in an extra shot barely with TUs left.

IMO time units were one of the things that XCOM: EU got right. The classic time units doesn't really add that much to the game other than complicating it and making turns take longer to plan. I'd rather see a mod that added XCOM: EU time units to Xenonauts :-P

That is a surprising assertion. The Firaxis-XCOM two-action system is undoubtedly elegant in how simple it is to understand, but in my opinion it is also the main thing (along with little inventory freedom) taking away strategic depth.

Well, let's see, not to kick down the guy who loves X-COM: EU perspective of Turn Based Combat, but you should understand why we bang about strategic depth.

Now, lets see what the previous turn based series has to offer for two digit Turns.(Jagged Alliance, Silent Storm)

-Move to door

- Open door

- Look to the right

- See two enemies with health unknown

- Use 5 AP to observe health. The further one is near death

- Snipe with half AP worth, killed that first bastard

- Lob Frag Grenade at the second, blow up the other.

- Move back one tile to take cover

Now, what do you have in two-action systems?

- Move Action

- Attack Action

Well, you can do anything with these 2 actions, but you get the idea. With our system, we're able to execute that manifesto that you call unconventional strategy that could blow 5 or 6 baddies up provided you know how to get that opportunity. It's more about the game giving us tools and their required Action Points. Giving us many tools but I can only select 2 of them to bash things about is severely handicapping my options.

Xenonaut's uses a hybrid system. "Soft" action's like moving, opening door's, etc I believe are fixed, while "hard" action's like shooting, and throwing grenade's are percentage based. So you can do all those little maneuvering action's, while limiting your ability to deal excessive damage though too many action's.

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by imposing a lower "limit". The percentages were set up to balance the amount of action's possible in a turn. The only impact you would have, would be to allow MORE action's, and thus affect the game balance in your favor.

Currently if it take's 60% to fire a rifle your experienced soldier can still do more with his remaining 40% than a rookie. Ability to maneuver and still shoot should not be underestimated.

That is a surprising assertion. The Firaxis-XCOM two-action system is undoubtedly elegant in how simple it is to understand, but in my opinion it is also the main thing (along with little inventory freedom) taking away strategic depth.

The main thing I saw taking away strategic depth in EU was the amount of soldiers you could deploy, a relatively dumb/cheating AI and a very limited geoscape. The two-action system never bothered me and I found it to be one of the things the game did well.

I think people tend to romanticize all features of the old game without rationally evaluating some of the innovations that could be made.

Sorry for hijacking the thread though...

I think people tend to romanticize all features of the old game without rationally evaluating some of the innovations that could be made.

Eh, you've just activated my self-defense ego mechanism by elaborating it in such a way, so I have to be a mean person.

Let's say that you have a set of tools at your disposal. Depending on your actions you can use these tools in a variety of ways.

The 'old' system is the Action Points system. Each tool has a specific amount of points that you can use. Would you want to not move at all and use that 3 Action point tool several times or move and use that 15 Action point tool? Or for a master stroke of unconventional strategy, use several types of tools to execute the impossible depending on your APs available and the cost of the tools. I can do lotsa things with this system.

The 'new' system is the 2 action system. You can either move and use 1 tool, or use 2 tools. Now, you can't use 3 tools to help you in pulling of some masterfully executed plan in a given opportunity, Only are limited to either use 1 tool or use 2 tools.

You know what's the problems of old turn based systems? They are confusing with their interface and UI. The old X-COM was designed at a very primitive version of itself (it was 1994) and when new generation people looked at it, of course it would suffer in the eyes of an ever increasingly impatiently demanding community. The more recent games (like jagged alliance and silent storm) have streamlined these systems to be more practical and accessible to the player without the confusion here and there. It's straighforward and that you can still do many things with the system. Old X-COM is critically acclaimed for its Turn System, and for good reason.

Now, if innovation is about going backwards in time to do less and have less options, then surely gaming in the future is a one-button mashing fest.(And my gods, that's a scary thought)

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Maybe im wrong but Jagged Alliance 2 also had percentage-based shooting and normal moving. And number of points (so basically maximal range of move) was based on agility. So its pretty like here.

The problem of your idea is that it would make soldiers, as ppl already mentioned, even more overpowered.

Cause look.

Rookie has 40 tu's so he can shoot 2 times or run 10 titles or shoot 1 time and run 5 titles.

Veteran has 100 tu's so he can shoot 5 times or run 25 titles or shoot 3 times and run 10 titles.

So somehow weapon held by a veteran have better rate of fire? Its completely unrealistic not to mention it makes ur soldiers even more op (which is a big problem now - I, admittedly, play only modded version play but i guess its the same).

I do admittedly have a hard time seeing the relevance of this to Xenonauts or X:CE. There is already a tweak to turn off the percentage-based TU system for firing weapons, and having some other kind of TU system is a discussion more appropriate to Goldhawk's next game than this one. The TU system is as much a core part of X-COM as the inventory or multiple bases. If you change that, you're leaving the "faithful remake" territory.

IMO time units were one of the things that XCOM: EU got right. The classic time units doesn't really add that much to the game other than complicating it and making turns take longer to plan. I'd rather see a mod that added XCOM: EU time units to Xenonauts :-P

Except that with the classic TU style, you can move multiple times, take multiple shots, and face your characters in specific directions. In EU/EW, you can move twice, fire twice if you have a talent for it, and you don't really have the minute control of facing movements like you do in classic. Don't get me wrong, it works for EU/EW because the entire game is built around that system, but I don't think it would work in Xenonauts.

I like the tactical finesse that the classic system allows. Again, the two point system worked in EU, but limiting yourself like that doesn't make for a good challenge, it just makes the game feel unnecessarily tedious.