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Using Alien Technology Withou Researching


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Xenonauts is Chris remaking x-com with some tweaks to make it fit his vision of what it should have been like. It draws inspiration from it yes, but it is not supposed to be a clone.

If you want a x-com, play x-com. If you want x-com with some tweaks, play Xenonauts and support any suggestions for it with arguments for why it is better, not with "oh they did it like that!".

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Look, it's a rifle.

It's designed to be used by something of broadly similar body plan to humans - two arms, two shoulders, one head. Given that it is of mechanical operation - pull trigger, dispense death - there are only so many possible ways it can work.

Take a trained United States Marine into a firing range and hand him a Steyr AUG. Radically different in design from anything he's been trained on, but I guarantee you that he'll have that puppy dispensing death in under five seconds if it was already loaded, charged, and the safety was off. Call it a minute, at most, if he's grabbing it off someone else's rack.

Alienrifle.png~original

This is the weapon we're talking about. It has a barrel, and it's obvious which end you hold, and which end dispenses death. The trigger is clearly that gigantic thing in front of the grip.

Would it be awkward for a human to hold? Absolutely; there's no buttstock to speak of. Would it be impossible for a human to use? Absolutely not. I'm quite sure that a trained soldier can figure out "point the end with the big hole in it at the enemy and squeeze this thing on the front." In fact, in the novella, that is exactly what happens, and it's what your soldiers can do quite easily.

And frankly, I agree with doing it the way XCOM: Enemy Unknown did it. If you don't sell the alien plasma stuff, after you're done researching them, you can mount them in human-ergonomic cases and have done with it. All the stuff about it being too heavy for our piddly human frames has to be bollocks, because Sectoids and Thin Men wield the damn things - and in Xenonauts, Caesans, who are specifically noted to be frailer and weaker than humans - wield these very weapons without difficulty.

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Its ALIEN technology.

Alien means that it is completely alien to human beings thats why its called ALIEN technology and thats why it should be researched, because a human would not know how to use ALIEN technology.

It is ALIEN to humans just as the Aliens themselves are.

The big clue is in the word ALIEN, when something is Alien to you.

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Its ALIEN technology.

Alien means that it is completely alien to human beings thats why its called ALIEN technology and thats why it should be researched, because a human would not know how to use ALIEN technology.

It is ALIEN to humans just as the Aliens themselves are.

The big clue is in the word ALIEN, when something is Alien to you.

Actually you got a point, it's ALIEN. To be fair a soldier shouldn't be able to know where to shoot an ALIEN, because it's ALIEN!

We shouldn't know how to kill an ALIEN!

So, the game it's totally unrealistic, our soldiers should duck in despair or run away every time they see an ALIEN, because it's ALIEN!!!!

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Xenonauts is not Xcom remade with tweaks, Xcom is Xcom, and Xenonauts is Xenonauts.

If I say that they did it like this or that so what I am entitled and if you don't like that then tough!

Its my opinion that Xenonauts would be even better than it is with some more of the Xcom tweaks added to it.

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Any kind of weapon in the Universe becomes usable by any living creature smart enough to pull the trigger. I see nothing wrong with it.

Unless it checks DNA code of the user or sci-fi stuff like this. But this game is not the case, so... go mod your game and be happy?

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Not sure what you are talking about because what you are on about is not the point I have made, I think you just put up a STRAW MAN and knocked him down in a very simplistic sort of way.

Alien Weapons Research

In this game one can just pick the Alien weapons up right from the start without having researched the aliens weapon technology, and just use it straight away, that was something one could not do in Xcom.

Above is my point, only God knows what you are on about lol.

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The Aliens are alien to humanity and so is their technology, I doubt very much that if Aliens landed on Earth today and began fighting with the armed forces around the world, that a human would be able to pick up an Alien weapon and just naturally use it and that is because it would be totally Alien to any human being until it was studied and researched.

Alien weapons

Alien weapons are more powerful than conventional weapons and are very destructive. They are initially only usable by the aliens, but later can be turned on them once they have been researched.

http://ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Weapons

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Actually you got a point, it's ALIEN. To be fair a soldier shouldn't be able to know where to shoot an ALIEN, because it's ALIEN!

We shouldn't know how to kill an ALIEN!

So, the game it's totally unrealistic, our soldiers should duck in despair or run away every time they see an ALIEN, because it's ALIEN!!!!

You're SO RIGHT!

But...

By that same token...

TO THE CASEANS, WE'RE THE ALIENS!

Oh my god, they shouldn't know how to kill humans! We're ALIEN to them! :P

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What makes you think it would have a trigger especially if it is Alien, perhaps it may only be activated by thought or sound etc...

except they DO

This discussion is starting to verge into the realm of personal insults. I'd like everyone to take a step back and chillax.

More like into paradoxical euphoria.

It's getting hilarious ;P

Edited by LKx
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The Aliens are alien to humanity and so is their technology, I doubt very much that if Aliens landed on Earth today and began fighting with the armed forces around the world, that a human would be able to pick up an Alien weapon and just naturally use it and that is because it would be totally Alien to any human being until it was studied and researched.

Alien weapons are more powerful than conventional weapons and are very destructive.

Yes, they are. You know what else that would be true of?

Take, oh, I don't know, George Washington. Or better yet, some experienced frontiersman/sharpshooter from his day Hand him an M-16 rifle.

It's much more powerful than the conventional weapons of his day! It's much more destructive. It can fire THIRTY bullets in under a SECOND, whereas in his day, the best soldiers could get off maybe three bullets per MINUTE!

But you know what? I bet he'd be able to figure out how to fire it if he had to do so. It has a trigger, and so did the firearms he was used to. It has a lot of complicated mechanisms he's unused to, but if his life is on the line and he needs to dispense some death NOW, I'm quite confident he could figure it out.

Because, guess what?

It's still a weapon of manual operation. It is recognizably a rifle. The trigger's in roughly the right place, the hand-grip is a little weird but it's not as if pistols were completely unknown in his day.

Alienrifle.png~original

Once again, this is the "But it's ALIEN!" weapon in question. It is not activated by a cybernetic smart-gun link, it is not activated by a burst of sound or by giving it a good, solid shake. A soldier, whether he be Caesan, Sebillian, Andron, Praetor, or human, will be able to figure out its operation from the basic principles of rifle use. As would, if we go cross-universal, a Turian, or a Klingon, or a Twi'lek, or a Centauri, or a Draenei, or a Tau, or...

Anybody whose species stands upright, with arms which end in hands, has almost unquestionably invented firearms, and invented them in rifle form factors. If they use anything which is shaped like a rifle, and is of manual operation, they will be able to use this weapon!

The ergonomics may be weird, the materials may be weird, the operating principles may be completely unknown to them, but at the end of the day, it is a rifle. You grip the hand-grip firmly with your right hand, support the barrel with your left hand (reverse these hand assignments if your dominant hand is your left, if you have more than one set of arms you will probably be wishing to use the upper right hand for the hand grip, and the upper left for the forward grip, etcetera,) you (can) aim it by leaning your head to the right and aiming down the barrel, and you fire it by pulling the trigger!

It's not really very alien at all, at least, not in form and function.

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Firearms are generally very complicated bits of equipment designed to be used as easily as possible.

We aren't talking about someone with no training stepping into a helicopter and flying it within seconds, or even driving a car for that matter.

This is a long stick with a handle and a button.

As long as you can figure out which end to point at the enemy you could make it work for its intended purpose.

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The whole point is about it being ALIEN to human beings and that is why they can't use it without it being researched and studied and figured out, and then used by humans that is the whole point of researching ALIEN technology so that one can turn it against the Aliens.

Just admit I that I am right and stop creating STRAW MEN arguments to bolster your position.

Looks like I will just have to rely on Modders to sort this game out as you DEVS obviously are incapable of taking a feedback about the game at all and as for construtive criticism I think that must be an ALIEN concept to you Lol.

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You were discussing the use of alien weaponry within Xenonauts by soldiers before it was researched.

That is the same point we have all been discussing, mainly using examples from within the game of the actual technology you were discussing as it appears within the game.

If you think that is a straw man argument then I reckon you need to refresh yourself on what that means.

The actual weapons used in the game by aliens bear a strong resemblance to human weapons in form and function.

The point being that their form and function could be understood by a human soldier of moderate intelligence without needing a scientist to point at the object that is clearly a trigger and saying 'press this to fire'.

From a gameplay standpoint then if you were to be using alien weapons during the game then it would make sense to force the player to research them thoroughly before relying on them in combat.

However in Xenonauts the player will never rely on them and by design will likely only ever pick them up during combat as a desperation measure before disposing of them in favour of specially designed weapons.

They ARE researched before you can create your own versions of those weapons to use against the aliens though, as building and maintaining a weapon is a far cry from simply firing it.

You could say that you would have preferred them to be researched before they were able to be used which is a 100% valid opinion but suggesting that they HAVE to work that way just because you think so is not really a persuasive argument to me.

Looks like I will just have to rely on Modders to sort this game out as you DEVS obviously are incapable of taking a feedback about the game at all and as for construtive criticism I think that must be an ALIEN concept to you Lol.

Not sure why you felt the need to insult the dev team as there have been no members of Goldhawk involved in this thread so far.

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