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New Steam review from X-Com veteran and Military Veteran


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It'd be more accurate if the first few rounds have greater accuracy than later rounds in the burst. Perhaps normal accuracy for first -2, -5, -10, -15, -20, -25, -30, -35, -40. Of course the same mechanic where the lesser of your str or accuracy stats still applies.
Yeah, that was discussed during the debates about how MG scatter and accuracy should work (last year I think maybe earlier even), but GH wasn't up for that. I will say that the scatter system for misses is MUCH BETTER than it used to be. Originally, we had friendly getting shot that were standing next to the gunner on his right and left shoulder! LOL!
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FWIW the rocket launcher, just going by the appearance of the stock artwork in game, seems to be one of these:

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/mk153-smaw-e.html

Maybe, I am not as up on British weaponry as I am US, however at the same time, any RPG or bazooka is going to be considered a specialized piece of equipment, and not a main weapon. Right tool for the job and all that. Also, once again that was developed in the early 1980's and not by 1979 which the game starts at.

Any RPG that uses a magazine also is more useful in a fixed emplacement to defend against tank pushes than for actually carrying into battle. Modern anti-tank weapons include the Mark19 grenade launcher. It is a fully automatic weapon firing a linked-chain of 5mm grenade rounds, but is far to heavy to carry around. How often in war do you see infantry units hunting tank units, rather than simply taking out a single tank that is on the hunt for them? The fact is you don't. Rockets are a dangerous thing to carry, the more you carry the more likely something will set one off. If it's on your back, you're dead.

My point on rockets is it should treated as something handed to a strong GI who uses a rifle, as a potential tool for certain circumstances, not a main weapon for a heavy weapons soldier. The single shot Bazooka would help players get out of FPS mind sets from Quake, Doom, Half-life, etc. and into a mindset where you get one shot, save it for when you need it. In fact, tonight I think I will set up a separate rifle man + rocket load out to compliment the rifle man + grenade load out I already have. I will use it for a few of my particularly strong riflemen.

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6. Flares burn can start fires easily but do not do so in game. Smoke grenades produce smoke slowly, and will only burn your hand if you aren't wearing leather gloves. They should not be starting fires in this game.

This was actually a bug when discovered. Chris and the team kept it in as an inside joke with the forums. :)

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This was actually a bug when discovered. Chris and the team kept it in as an inside joke with the forums. :)

Inside joke happened to cost me all of my cover when I was using one to shield some of my soldiers from sight in the middle of a corn field... I totally flipped out when it happened.

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There was actually a weapon in the game that met your criteria for a one-shot rocket launcher, Chthon. The Disposable Hyper-Velocity Rocket Launcher was going to be a one-use weapon, and a later stage piece of kit. It was cut, but all the assets are still there and you can make one-use weapons.

Edited by Max_Caine
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In real combat 99% of shots will miss.

You CAN give weapons realistic ammo count and accuracy, but that will lead to a slow game with lots and lots of misses. I tried it.

So the reasonable compromise is to reduce ammo, but increase accuracy - that way the average number of hits remains the same, and the need to reload remains the same, without dragging the game along.

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My point on rockets is it should treated as something handed to a strong GI who uses a rifle, as a potential tool for certain circumstances, not a main weapon for a heavy weapons soldier.

Actually, that is not really the case in all armies. For example: In USSR/Russian army, motorized infantry squad, that consists of 9 men + APC/IFV (pretty close to what we have in Xenonauts), always has an RPG team: RPG Operator + RPG Operator Assistant. Operator carries RPG-7, 1 additional rocket and a pistol, while assistant carries 3 more rockets and a rifle. While I am not as familiar with squad composition of other countries armed forces, and can't say if any use similar composition, my point is that having a dedicated rocketeer is both realistic and reasonable at Xenonauts squad size.

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Actually, that is not really the case in all armies. For example: In USSR/Russian army, motorized infantry squad, that consists of 9 men + APC/IFV (pretty close to what we have in Xenonauts), always has an RPG team: RPG Operator + RPG Operator Assistant. Operator carries RPG-7, 1 additional rocket and a pistol, while assistant carries 3 more rockets and a rifle. While I am not as familiar with squad composition of other countries armed forces, and can't say if any use similar composition, my point is that having a dedicated rocketeer is both realistic and reasonable at Xenonauts squad size.

Once again, I cannot say how other armies would operate, but having a soldier who's sole purpose was to carry an RPG and a pistol to a fight against infantry would be very silly. Geneva and Hague conventions forbid the use of rockets and similar weapons against anything other than "Equipment" (tanks and vehicles) and "Supplies." Of course we don't operate under those conventions in game. Still you don't show up to a rifle fight armed with only a pistol.

I would think that since they are mechanized infantry, and the unit has an APC/IFV, which likely has a turret weapon, he may also be the turret gunner during these fights, and the vehicle is the real one to carry the rockets until they are needed. After all, even HWMMVs "Humvees" have a M249 or M240b turret on most of them, and they aren't considered real mechanized infantry vehicles.

In infantry combat, the driver, and the turret gunner would not leave the vehicle unless it was in danger of being destroyed.

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Just a bit of background from me, I am a veteran of the US Military, and have detailed knowledge of the weapons we use and used.

Really, this did make me laugh a little. Not at military service, but that anyone would complain about a lack of realistic weaponry in a game like this. A soldier complaining about the stats of a machine gun is like a pilot complaining about the turn rate of the Mig during air combat despite the lack a third dimension. There are fundamental issues prohibiting Xenonauts from mirroring reality. The concept of modeling realistic weaponry within a wholly unrealistic physics model is itself unrealistic. Gameplay wins.

I'm a lawyer in real life. I take issue with how the Xenonauts are able to operate globally without appropriate overflight and extraterritoriality agreements. We need a united nations interface where players can bribe/negotiate with ambassadors prior to setting up a base. The current point-and-click location selection does not properly model the reality of modern legal doctrine.

Edited by Sandworm
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Geneva and Hague conventions forbid the use of rockets and similar weapons against anything other than "Equipment" (tanks and vehicles) and "Supplies." Of course we don't operate under those conventions in game.
No one follows those rules. If someone told me that I'd say I was aiming for their canteens or ammo belts since it's "equipment" and "supplies".
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No one follows those rules. If someone told me that I'd say I was aiming for their canteens or ammo belts since it's "equipment" and "supplies".

Soldiers do generally follow the geneva and other international conventions, even when they don't want to. The most well-followed rules are those that soldiers don't even know about because they are not allowed to see battle (plastic shrapnel, explosive/poisoned bullets, three-bladed bayonets etc). I do not want to see those things in Xenonauts or any other game.

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Soldiers do generally follow the geneva and other international conventions, even when they don't want to. The most well-followed rules are those that soldiers don't even know about because they are not allowed to see battle (plastic shrapnel, explosive/poisoned bullets, three-bladed bayonets etc). I do not want to see those things in Xenonauts or any other game.
They shoot rockets and other heavy weapons at each other all the time though. Poison bullets, gas, etc... yeah not used much because they are horrible and make the major powers angry. JA2 allowed you to use mustard and tear gas on your enemies.
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Yes, some of the rules are broken some of the time. Those who command soldiers work to remove such decisions long before battle, such as by not building certain weapons or placing others out of soldiers' physical control. That's why nukes are kept under political control via locks, something that Xenonauts mirrors well by not allowing the player to nuke much of anything.

I would not want to see any game, or mod, model such things. Even the "alien interrogation" concept treads lightly around the issue.

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Geneva and Hague conventions forbid the use of rockets and similar weapons against anything other than "Equipment" (tanks and vehicles) and "Supplies."

I actually never heard about that particular restriction, and existence of special RPG and other grenade launcher ammunition for countering troops in cover, and that they regularly used for that purpose seems to contradict that.

I would think that since they are mechanized infantry, and the unit has an APC/IFV, which likely has a turret weapon, he may also be the turret gunner during these fights

I actually made a mistake. It's not 9, it's 8 people + IFV/APC with crew of 2: driver and turret gunner. So no, he is fighting on foot during engagments. But he and assistant never separate, and assistants main purpose is covering RPG operator, because he doesn't have a rifle. Operator on the other hand is usually looking for armored treats. They act in essence like a single soldier.

having a soldier who's sole purpose was to carry an RPG and a pistol to a fight against infantry would be very silly

I also would like to remind you that in Xenonauts, we are fighting against aliens that are MUCH tougher than humans, and some of them are armored enough targets to warrant a heavy weapon. You shouldn't think of Xenonauts engagements as infantry only battles.

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No one follows those rules. If someone told me that I'd say I was aiming for their canteens or ammo belts since it's "equipment" and "supplies".

Soldiers are prosecuted in the US for war crimes all the time. I am aware that this does not happen everywhere, but if discovered, it will happen in the US.

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I actually never heard about that particular restriction, and existence of special RPG and other grenade launcher ammunition for countering troops in cover, and that they regularly used for that purpose seems to contradict that.

There is a distinction between RPG, or rockets, and actual grenade launchers, which only fire grenades. A rocket can blow a body apart, making recovery of the body nearly impossible. A grenade uses shrapnel to pierce the body much like a bullet does.

I actually made a mistake. It's not 9, it's 8 people + IFV/APC with crew of 2: driver and turret gunner. So no, he is fighting on foot during engagments. But he and assistant never separate, and assistants main purpose is covering RPG operator, because he doesn't have a rifle. Operator on the other hand is usually looking for armored treats. They act in essence like a single soldier.[/Quote]

I would not want to be a soldier with that job in that army. I've qualified on M9, M16, and M249, and deployed with the first and last. I'd take a rifle over a pistol any day, even if I had a rocket.

I also would like to remind you that in Xenonauts, we are fighting against aliens that are MUCH tougher than humans, and some of them are armored enough targets to warrant a heavy weapon. You shouldn't think of Xenonauts engagements as infantry only battles.

Even here, a RPG should be overkill, as it contains a shaped charge to pierce the armor, and except in the case of the Andron, would completely splatter the target inside. Proper weapons would include better armor piercing ammunition.

However in the game, explosives feel very weak to me. Ordinary grenades do next to no damage, with such a small range. 3 tile radius would be realistic. I've now fired a plasma rocket direct hit into an armored Sebillian warrior, and 175 damage wasn't enough to make him dead, even though he should have been a red smear. All of this on normal. All of this makes me feel like I wouldn't use rockets on anything less than an Andron or cover, because it's not worth it.

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There is a distinction between RPG, or rockets, and actual grenade launchers, which only fire grenades. A rocket can blow a body apart, making recovery of the body nearly impossible. A grenade uses shrapnel to pierce the body much like a bullet does.
Bazookas were widely used against dug troops and bunkers in WW II. I'm a little confused about your Geneva rules. Granted I probably wouldn't fire a rocket at someone standing up in the open if I had a rifle or machinegun, but everything else seems reasonable.
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I think the confusion stems from the fact that a large number of agreements are commonly balled into the 'geneva convention' term. For instance, the ban on using explosive rounds against people comes from the Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868 (ie Declaration Renouncing the Use, in Time of War, of Explosive Projectiles Under 400 Grammes Weight).

The "I'm not shooting him, I'm shooting his equipment" issue comes from the fact that explosive shells under 400grams can be used against equipment and material, just not persons. There is debate as to whether the 400grams (just about 1lb) covers the projectile alone or the entire cartridge. If the latter, then I believe .50cal rounds used by some US snipers may be a violation. That is IF the US had been part of the convention, which is wasn't. So US snipers can legally do what for a Brit or even Canadian sniper would be a war crime.

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I'd take a rifle over a pistol any day, even if I had a rocket.

I agree. That is why when AKs-74U, a carbine version, was developed, vehicle crews and RPG operators were issued them instead of pistols. But it started appearing in the army only in mid-80s, later then game timeframe. Though, I do think that Xenonauts need some sort of starter carbine.

Even here, a RPG should be overkill, as it contains a shaped charge to pierce the armor

If you noticed, xenonauts use HE, not HEAT, ammunition for their rocket launcher, there is AP(HEAT) rocket in game files, but i'm not sure if it is used anywhere now. I do agree on general lack of power on explosives, but that's for balance purposes i guess

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Yeah, that was discussed during the debates about how MG scatter and accuracy should work (last year I think maybe earlier even), but GH wasn't up for that. I will say that the scatter system for misses is MUCH BETTER than it used to be. Originally, we had friendly getting shot that were standing next to the gunner on his right and left shoulder! LOL!

That still happens to me. I usually just savescum, because that's nonsense.

Edited by Felicity
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Going back to the night vision point, you can't actually restrict the soldiers vision any further without making it impossible to see certain tiles. Its a hard limitation of the game engine and tile system that can't be overcome.

What, how? Can you elaborate? I can't imagine how restricting vision can make tiles impossible to see.

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