Geoscape Balance - V21 Experimental 5 / 6

[DNK]

I also agree that fuel consumption is too high for the air fighting minigame. It's far too often I end up watching my fighters run out after they've broken combat, as they have to take the long slow road out of the combat zone. And then get shot down because they've used up their supply. It's just frustrating that you have to sit there and watch for 30-90 seconds while your otherwise successful attack craft slowly get chased down and use up all their fuel after breaking combat.

Also, once clicking outside the combat zone, you can't adjust flight paths any further. Why? This is extremely frustrating, and it didn't used to be like that I thought.

And one more to upping recovery rates for materials. Seems odd that the amount of "metal" or "fuel rods" we get from a downed UFO the size of an office building is barely enough to mold into a single infantry weapon and armor or we need to down like 20 UFOs to get enough to build just one of our own. I like to airstrike about 50% or so of the time (basically, the smaller/older craft), but when resources become constraining the airstrike option is useless.

Edited March 10, 2014 by DNK

[Sleet01]

Clicking outside the combat zone is the same as using the bug-out button, isn't it? I don't think that's reversible.

I wonder if it would be possible to implement mid-air refueling as a research option, and give the commander the option to mid-air refuel planes if they're over friendly nations... that, or just build refueling bases at the edge of your radar range and direct planes there if they run out mid-mission?

(apologies if someone else has suggested this stuff already; I haven't read the whole thread yet)

[Max_Caine]

Mid-air refuelling often gets brought up, so no need to apologise. I could see it working for the starting aircraft but how do you explain mid-air refuelling for everything else? Everything after the MiG is powered by Alien Space Batteries that need plugging in to very powerful generators to recharge (as I remember the lore has them plugging into the nuclear powered generators which power the base).

[Birkow]

Mid-air refuelling often gets brought up, so no need to apologise. I could see it working for the starting aircraft but how do you explain mid-air refuelling for everything else? Everything after the MiG is powered by Alien Space Batteries that need plugging in to very powerful generators to recharge (as I remember the lore has them plugging into the nuclear powered generators which power the base).

Nuclear powered planes could be used to recharge those alien batteries in mid air. But then alien fighters would hunt those refuelling planes- they could be used only with air superiority. And I imagine that aliens shooting down plane with fission reactor would negatively affect your relations with local government (after all nobody likes radioactive isotopes falling from the sky).

[kabill]

On a different topic: I've been getting the 'Alien Interrogation' research project without actually capturing any aliens. The two times this has happened, it occured after fighting Reapers for the first time. When I complete the project, I don't get any other interrogation projects (implying that I don't have any captured aliens).

I assume this isn't intentional, but wanted to check on the off chance Reapers are supposed to give you alien interrogation now for some reason.

[Max_Caine]

Just wanted to say that I really like the new missile and plasma effects in the minigame. Any chance of some zappy noises for the upgraded cannons?

[Max_Caine]

Apologies for the double post, however I felt this needed it's own post. I understand the development teams' reluctance to make any changes to the air minigame, especially this late in development, however last night I was able to defeat 2 fighters and a corvette with 2 Condors simply because the fighters and the Corvette chased blindly after one Condor making it very easy to kite the fighters away from the cap ship, deal with them individually and then turn my attention to the Corvette. While there will always be problems with targetting, I feel that the practice of the ufos establishing a target at the start of the minigame then never changing makes the minigame absurdly easy. If the UFOs retargetted interceptors each time a ufo was shot down that would help to cut down on how easy it is to kite them.

[quiescat]

Clicking outside the combat zone is the same as using the bug-out button, isn't it? I don't think that's reversible.

I wonder if it would be possible to implement mid-air refueling as a research option, and give the commander the option to mid-air refuel planes if they're over friendly nations... that, or just build refueling bases at the edge of your radar range and direct planes there if they run out mid-mission?

(apologies if someone else has suggested this stuff already; I haven't read the whole thread yet)

if the little pop up is not whats making your plane leave the combat. you can order any plane you have auto retreating to target one of the alien craft, then your open to adjust its flight path like normal again. not sure if its a bug or just the way the auto retreat works. if its the message you cant do any thing if you ignore that your plane auto crashes after combat because it runs out of fuel

as to the mid-air refueling i think that is the "trigger" that is being used to force you to build more then one air craft. other wise 90% of the game could be played with 2 or 3 hangers tops, as you could keep doing combat runs with a single plane . i think goal is to force you to have 10 or so craft across your bases to keep up with the aliens so it feels more like a war.

[Caaygun]

Capability of redirecting fighters to another base after the fight would be a good functionality.

[Gauddlike]

Each aircraft is attached to an individual hangar when it is purchased/built.

It is impossible to move them to another base without going through the transfer system.

This does mean that an aircraft circling a friendly base with an empty hangar wouldn't be able to land there even if the only alternative was to run out of fuel and crash on the way back to its own base.

Sadly the alternative is to recode the way aircraft are handled by the game which is unlikely to happen at this late stage of development.

[StellarRat]

I'll second the need for another look at Alenium costs. Right now it's pretty much impossible to build a Shrike or Corsairs until long after unlocking them unless you grind every crash site.

A big YES to this one. Way too many recoveries to get anything past level 1 equipment. Corsairs nearly impossible without doing every single UFO. Totally defeats the purpose of airstrike.

[Belmakor]

Oh man that was a big disappointment. First time i've ever built a Corsair (and i've been playing since v14 or something) and it has two cannons instead of any missile hardpoints... Is that a bug? The lore says its supposed to be a direct upgrade of the Condor.

[StellarRat]

Oh man that was a big disappointment. First time i've ever built a Corsair (and i've been playing since v14 or something) and it has two cannons instead of any missile hardpoints... Is that a bug? The lore says its supposed to be a direct upgrade of the Condor.

Actually, it is much better this way. It's a fighter killer now. First wave, Corsairs take out all fighters, Second Wave Foxtrots take out the capitol ship.

[DNK]

There's a problem with what you said: corsairS. Who gets 2 of those even?

[Chris]

I've had a look at the the values and you're right, the units are significantly overpriced in terms of Alenium. I'll halve the prices for most things, and drop Corsairs from 30 to 10 for the next build.

[Max_Caine]

Could you also charge alloys? I keep harping on it, but a) alloy stocks tend to build up and b) from a lore perspective, the big-ticket goods are capable of feats that even now we can't do or are in prototype (the pulse-detonation engines of the Corsair, for example are still very experimental) so it makes sense that alien alloys would form an integral component.

[StellarRat]

Could you also charge alloys? I keep harping on it, but a) alloy stocks tend to build up and b) from a lore perspective, the big-ticket goods are capable of feats that even now we can't do or are in prototype (the pulse-detonation engines of the Corsair, for example are still very experimental) so it makes sense that alien alloys would form an integral component.

Lots of stuff uses alloys. That's why I asked for more of them or lower usage.

I found it very difficult to build lasers and Wolf due to required alloys. Later Alenuim becomes too limiting also.

[Max_Caine]

I have the opposite problem, although that is tied to getting sufficient alenium for the big boys toys.

[Chris]

Yeah, I've added medium alloy cost to aircraft and vehicles - I didn't realise before that they didn't have one.

I've also reduced the relative $ and alloy cost increase of building precision rifle and machinegun derivatives. They were waaay to expensive before.

StellarRat - if there's a shortage of alloys with the adjusted values, we can tweak the values again. I just don't want to change too many things at once.

[Caaygun]

Actually, it is much better this way. It's a fighter killer now. First wave, Corsairs take out all fighters, Second Wave Foxtrots take out the capitol ship.

Even though I admit the new two cannon killing power is fun to use, I would prefer sidewinders staying. They used to give a really nice adaptability:

1-You can play defensive, hit enemy fighter with 1 missile after the first dodge

2-you can be agressive, go up to his face and kill it with missiles with no chance to dodge (1 condor can kill 3 fighters like this)

3-you can get more damage yield on a capital ship if you manage to save missiles for it.

Perhaps have 2 cannons and 2 sidewinders with the large 30 alenium cost as it is? Currently it has less total damage output potential than a condor even with the new buffed cannon magazine.

[Belmakor]

Even though I admit the new two cannon killing power is fun to use, I would prefer sidewinders staying. They used to give a really nice adaptability:

1-You can play defensive, hit enemy fighter with 1 missile after the first dodge

2-you can be agressive, go up to his face and kill it with missiles with no chance to dodge (1 condor can kill 3 fighters like this)

3-you can get more damage yield on a capital ship if you manage to save missiles for it.

Perhaps have 2 cannons and 2 sidewinders with the large 30 alenium cost as it is? Currently it has less total damage output potential than a condor even with the new buffed cannon magazine.

Yeah that's my only issue.

I don't know what the next upgrade is but my foxtrots and condors have had plasma weapons for about two months now and can do well in excess of 1000 damage. My corsair on the other hand can only do 120 * 8.

I can go into an autoresolve with a condor against a scout at 100% but my corsair is like 89%. Go figure...

[StellarRat]

Belmakor and Caaygun - The problem was that the previous Corsair wasn't enough of a step up from the Condor for the amount of money and alien materials it cost to build. Essentially, it was just a really expensive Condor with more range and slightly more toughness. With two cannons it is much better at killing enemy heavy fighters which were the bane of Condors. Two missiles isn't enough for heavy fighters a lot of the time, but they can't dodge cannons rounds. I think it is now very useful. With two cannons it can also kill larger ships (up to Corvettes I believe.) Hopefully, you're keeping in mind that by the time you have a Corsair you should also have at least laser gatling guns in your two cannon slots. It has the speed and manueverability to get into the blind spot of most alien capitol ships and can do a lot of damage with those cannons.

Edited March 12, 2014 by StellarRat

[Dranak]

Or you can just kill everything with Foxtrots. But seriously, Corsairs were even worse before this change. I still don't think they're good, and are at best barely worth getting after the upcoming price change, but they were clearly terrible and basically always a mistake before. There's at least something unique about them, instead of just being a Condor with larger margins of error and massively higher costs.

[DNK]

Without corsairs, how do you deal with heavy fighters or interceptors, though? Foxtrots can't, and generally the condor casualty rate is too high (though I'm not an expert in them, but that shouldn't be a requirement).

[frank_walls]

I just hold out for marauders. At the most I've built one corsair because it was taking awhile to get the tech for the marauder, but yea, they're kind of pointless. Didn't the OG have a fighter/dropship combo?

I unlocked the X-something once but never had enough resources to build it before the next experimental update came out. It looked like an SR-71. Seemed cool, but I think it used singularity cores for ammo, so it seemed like too much of a single purpose craft to be very useful.