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V20 Experimental Balance Patch 1 Available!


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PLEASE DO NOT REPORT BUGS IF YOU ARE USING THIS BALANCE PATCH, IT WILL JUST CONFUSE US! The .exe is not updated so there's no new version number involved. Please keep discussion limited to this thread.

This is an experimental balance patch for V20 Stable Hotfix 1. It requires slightly more effort than normal to set up, mostly because we're testing Hotfix 1 on the Experimental branch before rolling it out to the Stable branch.

The purpose of this balance patch is to change the feel of the ground combat. It is experimental and not every change in this patch will make it into the official builds...perhaps none of them will. The idea is to get feedback on what works and what doesn't.

The intention of this patch is to get the game feeling more like the original game, chiefly by making the combat a bit faster-paced and making the aliens less tough but more deadly.

It mostly affects the Light Scout missions, and I suggest you play a couple of those and perhaps one Scout mission (Caesans work better than Sebillians) before you come back to this thread and read the final changelog and post your thoughts. You'll be able to give better feedback if you go in "blind", I think!

Download instructions:

1) Get the file here: http://www.xenonauts.com/devfiles/balancepatchV1.zip

2) Navigate to your game directory

3) Unzip the file into /assets/ and overwrite everything

4) Play the game!

Changelog:

Seriously, give the Light Scout missions a play before you click the button and reveal it!

  • Moving a tile now costs 3 TU instead of 4, other move costs reduced accordingly. Makes flanking more viable and speeds up missions.
  • Cover is 75% as effective as it was previously, keeping it relevant but making it less OP.
  • Weapons are more accurate, but spending additional TU on a shot gives less bonus. Just makes the combat more deadly for both sides.
  • Soldier Stats:
    • TUs now capped at 80. Stops high-level troops being quite so OP.
    • Other stats now range from 30-70 on soldier generation instead of from 50-60, making your soldiers less generic and interchangeable with one another.
  • Light Scout maps are smaller and contain more cover and constricted LOS than previously. I think this makes them more exciting.
  • Light Scout UFOs contain Guards as well as Non-Combatants, but less aliens overall. This makes the missions faster but less of a cakewalk.
  • Overdamage removed from alien weapons, stops the monetary loss from later missions.
  • Aliens have changed dramatically, making them more frightening but easier to kill:
    • All have increased accuracy, reactions and sight ranges.
    • All have are less tough overall. Sebillians now have 0 armour but more HP, Androns have low HP but stronger armour.
    • Most have slightly reduced TUs, particularly at the higher ranks.
    • Non-coms have been buffed relative to other ranks, they're now more akin to Guards with worse weapons.
    • Aliens skulk indoors more
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First impressions: the spirit of the changes is good, but it's too much.

Zoom levels are now worthless and you should strive to fire as many shots as possible. Situation I had with a 55 TU soldier was that a 24 TU shot has a 42% chance to hit, a 32 TU shot has a 53% chance. Firing at 32 TU is one shot, so 53%, while firing two 24 TU shots gives a 66% chance to hit at least once, with a 17% chance of hitting twice. This is clearly better.

Aliens reaction fired at me twice, both shots hit and were instant kills. They also fired 6 shots at my out-of-cover soldiers, and 5 of those hit, including one that insta-killed a shield soldier. This is far more accurate than they were in the OG. Similarly deadly, but much more accurate.

As a result, taking these into account and approaching things more carefully, the reduced TU cost to move doesn't feel like it matters. If I use it to move faster, I get chewed up by accurate alien fire, so I am anyway forced to revert to a slow, exclusively cover-to-cover advance.

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Initial reaction.

*shoots down ufo* oh this will be a typical mission

It's sebs.

everyone piles out of the dropship, 1 turn later, my heavy immediatly gets dropped while stood behind a rock, Holy shit.

end result: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/504701268279294327/27624D8A42F09396DE2A201B099A0B2E6D10E0EF/

Holy crap this is a lot like X-com:EU I like the new changes, it's fast, brutal and glorious when you win, it makes me want to play even more cautiously than i do, and make far more use of smoke grenades outside of storming ufo's and bases.

LOVE IT.

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Whenever I play the OG, I find the aliens extremely accurate with their reaction fire. I think they take aimed shots with their reaction fire so their effective accuracy % is 70-80% or more, which is in-line with what (I think) they have here.

The accuracy levels in this patch are intentionally very high. Quite possibly they're too high...but it could also be you're not used to it. Solver, the fact you're having to play slow and methodical to avoid getting murdered by the aliens isn't necessarily a bad thing - really, that's how the game should be played. It's just there's consequences to not doing it now.

This is conjecture, of course. More than happy to listen to what people are saying about it and possibly we will tone down accuracy. For what it's worth, my own experience was more like Shrelock's - I got murdered in the early part of the mission, and had to rethink my tactics because I was going to lose if I didn't treat the enemy with more respect. Even lone Seb non-coms felt scary and dangerous when I saw one. But I think I could minimise casualties if I played more carefully.

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I have to agree with some here: I do not like some of the changes, while I like others a lot.

The level of brutality is good. But before the zoom levels were a concious choice (f.e. on 50 TU, do i double-tap with a 30- and 20tu shot? Do I burst? Or do I go for maximum aim? A lot of options before - now it makes so little difference its just a matter of how many TUs are left). Oh and burst fire just seems really really bad now. Before it seemed kind of balanced (to me at least - I usually burst fired if I wanted to suppress an enemy and went for aimed shots after that).

I do not like the new animation speed as well, it looks kinda.. "floppy" and unnatural. (Maybe a good optional thing?)

Oh and one more: I've come to hate the jumping around of the camera during my own (especially after scoring a hit) I notice what is going on anyway and today when trying it out I promptly misclicked with my 1st soldier because of the camera jump - and he walked out into the open. The 1st casualty of many :)

Just to cram it in here: I would vote in favor of streamlining turning TU cost to the same when standing or crouching - I usually rage when it happens that i cannot crouch and shoot just because i did not do it in the right order (and i have painfully learned to always turn before crouching).

But let it be clear: the game is awesome :D

Edit: Not everything here has to do with the Balance Changes, i know. I just couldn't stop cramming it all in. ;)

Edited by theSovereign
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Don't get me wrong, having to play slow and with caution is a good thing in my book. As long as later an armored team with lasers can easily take down a light scout, something below their pay grade. This is fine and well, I am just saying it makes the faster movement change redundant as I am moving slower than TU allows anyway.

Granted, a lot of my X-Com memories come from a version with the alien accuracy bug, but I still remember them having less accuracy. It does currently feel like aliens are at about 80%, yes. That, coupled with high damage, means that being outside of cover is no longer dangerous, it's just plain suicide. Likewise, I don't like how my soldiers are very good shots before reaching accuracy of 60. A 70-acc recruit (haven't had on yet, but I love the variation in starting stats now!) would probably be able to score amazing shots right on the first mission.

This balance patch feels like a step in the right direction, definitely. I just think it's a bit too far, especially with accuracy for both sides. Oh, would also be nice to once again be able to fire with 20 TUs, to have something to spend them on.

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@Tobbzn - that'll be a missing sub-map, which probably means you're missing some files (unless other people experience it too, which means I've forgotten to upload a map). Try going into Steam and Properties >> Local Files >> Validate files, then install the balance patch again. That should re-download any maps you're missing.

@All - yes, adding more variation back into the accuracy zoom levels may be worthwhile. Part of the reason fire costs were slightly increased was because they are so much more effective now, but it does render the entire system a bit meaningless if the lowest accuracy shots are always the most useful. I kinda just wanted to stop players being able to compensate for bad soldier accuracy by spending more TU...otherwise it's just that more accurate soldiers have higher effective TU. But perhaps that's not a bad thing in itself?

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I have no problem with more accurate soldiers being better that way. Sounds like a good thing to me!

By the way, I'd also consider raising the max TU cap to 90 from 80. Yeah they get super-powerful, but I think that's part of the fun, where keeping a soldier alive through many missions gives you someone who is extremely capable and easily worth 3 regular soldiers.

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Sounds like fun, can't wait for the family to find something else to do any leave me alone for a few hours.

However, from what has been added above, maybe the increased accuracy is to much for the size of the maps? Given that it is already possible to lose soldiers as aliens are already hanging around outside close to the drop ship at times.

Add in a thrown grenade here and there and it is possible to lose a soldiers at the very start - no time to be quick and careful (on V19 I used to get the same terror map and I always lost at least one soldier while they were just walking our´t of the drop ship.

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Further on the topic of accuracy, how about more differentiation based on alien type? I just saw a Caesan non-com display some impressive shooting. I'd rather see a big difference between their shooting skills and those of elites. Light Scouts now have a mix of alien types, but they feel basically equally dangerous.

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Disclaimer: I haven't played since V20 experimental build... 5 or so? So I have no hands-on experience with this patch, or any other recent accuracy changes. I wasn't going to comment in here (and have shied away from balance threads in general), but I can't resist theorycrafting. :P

Further on the topic of accuracy, how about more differentiation based on alien type? I just saw a Caesan non-com display some impressive shooting. I'd rather see a big difference between their shooting skills and those of elites. Light Scouts now have a mix of alien types, but they feel basically equally dangerous.

This idea seems to make sense as a good way to make the progressive alien ranks more dangerous without making them bullet sponges. Since light scouts now contain guards, the player would face the risk of highly accurate reaction fire on the map, even if non-coms are somewhat less accurate.

Or maybe this is already the case? Like I said, I haven't played in a while.

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I like the changes. But I agree, the accuracy of the reaction fire is too high. The hit rate should there be at 30-70%, depending on distance. Whereby maybe that something is too high because the alien is indeed scared and just reflexively shoots. As the old Ufo's not and I know what I'm talking about, I have the first part about 20 times solved and Terror from the Deep, which I found not so great also determined round 5 times.

The aliens continue to hold out too much. A Caesien died after two shotgun shots, I was standing right in front of him and a rifle shot. Two shotgun shots is already fierce, I find, but additionally a gunshot, it's just like Predator and Alien in one. The cartridges have not scattered beside it, I was standing right in front of him, would have given him the hand can reach.

I could during the Alien Turn see what they are doing because I had opened the door and closed again (from UFO).

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Playing more, my impression from the too-high-accuracy is that there are no longer any real firefights between me and the aliens. I either prevent the aliens from firing through suppression and maneuvering outside their fire arc, or I get slaughtered. The chances of a soldier surviving if fired upon are so slim that I have to become too risk-averse. I do not think this is intended to such an extent.

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Yeah I don't think a lot of these changes were thought out very well.

Plus non-coms are just that - Non-Combatants. They should not be as skilled as the proper Combatants. They should have less health, bad accuracy and be generally unthreatening.

They are experimental after all...have you actually played the build? That's not particularly useful feedback as is.

Also, a US Marine who has a desk job would be able to take just as many bullets as one assigned to combat duties (and probably wouldn't be a significantly worse shot either, having still gone through training). Non-com doesn't mean "civilian", it means not assigned to combat duties. Why should the aliens be different?

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I like the changes. But I agree, the accuracy of the reaction fire is too high. The hit rate should there be at 30-70%, depending on distance. Whereby maybe that something is too high because the alien is indeed scared and just reflexively shoots. As the old Ufo's not and I know what I'm talking about, I have the first part about 20 times solved and Terror from the Deep, which I found not so great also determined round 5 times.

The aliens continue to hold out too much. A Caesien died after two shotgun shots, I was standing right in front of him and a rifle shot. Two shotgun shots is already fierce, I find, but additionally a gunshot, it's just like Predator and Alien in one. The cartridges have not scattered beside it, I was standing right in front of him, would have given him the hand can reach.

I could during the Alien Turn see what they are doing because I had opened the door and closed again (from UFO).

If that's a Caesan Guard / Noncom, you've extremely unlucky not to kill him in one with a shotgun blast from an adjacent square. They're already weaker than humans so I won't be nerfing their HP any further I'm afraid.

Will bear in mind your comments on reaction fire accuracy.

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I don't think of non-coms as soldiers with desk jobs. I think of them more as of engineers and scientists that have weapons as a last-ditch precaution in a hostile environment, so they're not really effective with them. Old non-coms were too little of a threat, current non-coms are too close to proper soldiers.

Also, the Hunter car now dies like it was made out of paper.

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I ended up not merging the provided maps folder, but I did merge the rest.

Thus far: It is awesome!

Despite the announced reduction in alien numbers, this severely damaged Scout UFO saw me fighting five Sebillians right outside my drop zone in a middle-east civilian area. The new AI ran one Sebillian up to a door I was hiding behind, opened it, then had that Sebillian retreat, leaving the other Sebillians with a free line of fire to poor Yuri...

PS: On the save I provided, the Light Scout UFO's doors were open when I got there. Please consider increasing the chance of that, because it was far more interesting than the rather tedious "Bunch up on the breaching killzone" tactic that I've gotten accustomed to.

EDIT: Doing the new Light Scout site yields less cash reward than the airstrike.

Edited by Tobbzn
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Okay, now really final impressions for today.

Reaction fire from aliens is nearly always an instant kill, while reaction firing at aliens only wounds them. Does not feel balanced.

Laser weapons could be bugged, or I'm just unlucky, but they seem to be hitting much less than their indicated accuracy.

Open UFO doors on some maps are great. If it's a bug, keep it.

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@Chris

I have not examined the corpse. But whether or not guard, two shotgun shots are too much. One should be enough to kill a guard itself, at least from near when not scatter. From a distance it looks rather different, because I use prefer to use the rifle.

But a little more balancing and that could be the new standard, which makes the game much more interesting and more like the old UFO. I think with the update you are on the right track.

The game is getting better and better thanks to your good work and willingness to serious changes. The dare unfortunately not many these days, I'm really glad to have bought the game and pride. I definitely will complain no matter how many times. But only because I expect so much from you. Is a bit ago that I have ever expected from a developer anything else than to be fooled. ^ ^

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