Chris

Medal Types?

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So, I'm thinking about implementing the medal system if the Kickstarter fund goes to plan, so I'm taking a moment to sketch out how the system would look if it were to be implemented.

The basic idea that I have is simple; the soldiers earn medals automatically for causing (or surviving) particularly memorable events on the battlefield. These would give small stat boosts (perhaps +1 Bravery for each medal?), and would be displayed next to their portrait on the Soldier Equip screen.

These aren't intended to make massive differences to the stats of the soldiers and they're not intended to be something you farm. As such, soldiers shouldn't necessarily be able to collect that many of them. They're just little distinctions to help you get more attached to your soldiers.

I've got a few ideas for medals which I've listed below, and I thought it'd be good to throw the floor open to suggestions on what else might be worth a medal.

Purple Heart - Wounded in action (below 50% health after a mission)

- Kill 5 aliens

- Kill 3 aliens on a single mission

- Win an alien base attack mission

Saviour - Win a terror site mission

Sole Survivor - Only surviving soldier from a victorious mission

There's probably loads more, see if you can think of any. I might remove the alien base / terror attack victory medals as they're going to be very common and could devalue things somewhat, but we'll see.

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Might I suggest some alterations to the ones you have, just to make them more extreme

Purple Heart - Wounded in action (below 25% health after a mission)

Bug killer - Kill 5 aliens

One man army - Kill 3 aliens on a single mission

Defender - Win an alien base attack mission

Saviour - Win a terror site mission

Sole Survivor - Only surviving soldier from a victorious mission (should probably get a lot of bravery for this one)

Possibly need some better names

But then some more (some of these are better than others):

Grenadier - kill 2 or more aliens with one grenade

Pistol marksman - kill an alien at over 50 feet with a pistol (this can then apply for all other weapons)

CQB specialist - kill an alien in close combat

Legionnaire - have your combat shield break after absorbing the full amount of shots

master and commander - reach top rank

Stunning - Stun an alien with a stun baton

Breach and clear - stun 2 or more aliens with a stun grenade/rocket

Ninja - killed the enemy commander before any of his men

Down but not out - survived a fatal wound

I in team - killed all the aliens in a UFO by yourself

And I'm sure others will have more and better ones

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If people want to suggest names, they should be more like 'medal' names rather than 'achievement' names if you see what I mean. Anyways, keep the suggestions coming :)

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I think Purple Heart works pretty well for 50% or below, as the actual Purple Heart is given for any battlefield injury, not just serious ones.

Also, I think we could maybe crib decorations from various nations in order to reflect the Xenonauts' nature as an international organization. Either that, or generate our own original names and decorations, which might be a bit more difficult. Maybe names themed after various Earth locations?

Anyways, here's some early efforts using international medals that can no doubt be greatly improved upon and refined. I've tried to have at least one medal from each region of the Xenonauts map.

Wounded in action (50% health or below) -> Purple Heart.

Kill 5 aliens -> Order of Glory

Kill 10 aliens-> Military Cross

Kill 15 aliens-> Honorarius Crux

Kill 20 aliens-> Star of Gallantry

Kill 5 aliens in a single mission -> Medal of Honor

Survive for X months (where X is a suitably long time)-Long Service Medal. Ireland's also got a "Service Medal" which sounds a bit better and could also work.

There should also be at least one medal for capturing aliens, as capturing aliens is both more dangerous than killing them and more valuable to the Xenonauts. No ideas on that at the moment, though.

Also, it strikes me that since Xenonauts is going to have an actual air combat system, a medal or two for aircraft might be cool in order to help players get a bit more attached to their planes.

Edited by TheTuninator

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Isnt purple heart a very american type medal? might want to call it something else (or remove it completly)?

I forgot how much Bravery points does a soldier start with? I want to kow how much 1 bravery is. (im baisicly against medals giving bonuses but bravery works if its a very miniscule ammount awarded so you need to stack alot of medals before it makes a difference)

PS. AD why would you award a soldier attacking an alien base a medal/achivement called "defender"? DS.

Edit: I didnt read tunnilators post. I guess if you suppliment it with other nations medals purple heart name might work.

Edited by Gorlom

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Yeah, it might be better to just brainstorm original medals, but if we want to go with preexisting ones it'd be quite thematic to pull a whole bunch of different ones from all over the globe.

Here's some more medal ideas:

Fighters:

-Flying Ace-Destroy 5 UFOs

-Double Ace-Destroy 10 UFOs

-Triple Ace-Destroy 15 UFOs

and so forth. I don't know if it'd be possible to give any kind of bonuses for these, but I think they'd be cool to have anyways; making people get a bit more attached to aircraft strikes me as a good idea. There's a person in there too, you know! :P

Dropships:

-Xenonauts Campaign Ribbon-Carry out 20 UFO ground assault missions.

Troopers: (original medal names this time)

-Survive for X months: Xenonauts Service Ribbon/Medal

-Capture 5 aliens: Bronze Gallantry Medal

-Capture 10 aliens: Silver Gallantry Medal

-Capture a leader/navigator: Gold Gallantry Medal

-Survive a mission with 50% or less health: Crimson Heart

-Sole Survivor: Survivor's Ribbon/Medal

-Kill 5 Aliens in one mission:Medal of Heroism

-Kill 5 Aliens: Merit Star

-Kill 10 Aliens: Distinguished Merit Star

-Kill 15 Aliens: Outstanding Merit Star

-Kill 20 Aliens: Exemplary Merit Star

Also, I'm not sure if this is something the game could readily recognize, but if it could:

-Clear a UFO of medium size or larger by yourself: Order of Earth

Bravery bonuses for most of these sounds good; the Crimson Heart could potentially come with a very small health bump as well, although that's something that would have to be closely examined for balance purposes.

Edited by TheTuninator

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PS. AD why would you award a soldier attacking an alien base a medal/achivement called "defender"? DS.

Totally read that as defending your own base =p

Ok so some more medal like names...

Grenadiers Ribbon - kill 2 or more aliens with one grenade

Marksman's Ribbon - kill an alien at over 50 feet with a weapon (this can then apply for all other weapons)

Victory medal - kill an alien in close combat

Legionnaire's Ribbon - have your combat shield break after absorbing the full amount of shots

Distinguished Service Award - reach top rank

Bolt's Cross - Stun an alien with a stun baton (commander/leader) (named after this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_gun)

Specialists Ribbon - stun 2 or more aliens with one stun grenade/rocket

Sedgwick's Cross - killed the enemy commander before any of his men (named after General John Sedgwick, who's last words are reported to be: "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist...")

Star of St. John - survived a fatal wound

Victorian Cross - killed all the aliens in a UFO by yourself

Things like killing aliens should probably have more mediocre names, since all your soldier will be doing that, so maybe making them 'badges' or 'ribbons' or the like. That way the exemplary feats of survival/skill really stand out more

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AD isnt those things more "achivement" oriented? I'm afraid that it will lead to farming medals.

If medals are going to provide a small bonus you cant ahve too many of them or they will break gameplay. either it will cause problems when soldiers doesnt have enough and they stand no chance against endgame attacks or your soldiers will be able to ignore those endgame attacks because they stacked too many medals.

If you are going to award medals for things like "killing 2 aliens with 1 granade" (dont think any army or organization would award a medal for such things) you're going to have to either remove the bonus or award a bonus for every 5-10 medals the soldier earns. (Edit: or possibly a cap on the number of medals one soldier can earn)

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I was thinking more of a honourable feel to the stun an alien one. "For distinguished service in the interest of the Xenonauts." I.E. capturing an un-researched alien. Darwin's Cross? Cross of Galileo?

Anyways, I agree that these shouldn't have "achievement" names, even if the feats required would often garner one in games that have achievements.

How about one for healing? After a total amount of health healed.

Apollo's Service Medal - 200 hp healed

Some rare ones would be cool too, and with a bit vague descriptions so people won't "go for them" as easily.

Star of Sol - For extraordinary heroism in action. (Not panicking even once, after 3-4 squad deaths, each with higher or equal rank)

If you are going to award medals for things like "killing 2 aliens with 1 granade" (dont think any army or organization would award a medal for such things) you're going to have to either remove the bonus or award a bonus for every 5-10 medals the soldier earns. (Edit: or possibly a cap on the number of medals one soldier can earn)

One could make ribbons have no bonus, until you have a set amount, upon which you are given a medal which carries the bonus. But yes, I agree some of those aren't what would "normally" warrant a medal.

Edited by IceVamp

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Hello all, long time follower finally decided to join.

About the medals, for consecutive medals such as

5 kills

10 Kills

etc...

would it be better if instead of making them separate you simply add a marker like they you in the military

5 Kills = first award = Ribbon

10 Kills = second award = bronze star on ribbon

20 kills = 3rd award = 2nd bronze start on ribbon

it coudl be made that every 20 kills you get a bronze start up to 3 in a ribbon once that is reach the next award will be a silver start so

at 80 Kills = silver start

then like at 250 kills = a gold start and you could get like 3 gold stars :)

something to that effect after all you want ribbon but also want to keep a control for example maybe 20 ribbons or medals each of those can have several awards, as we know almost all every award can be achieved at least once.

the of course as people have mentioned have really special ribbons for something that is not usual.

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Some rare ones would be cool too, and with a bit vague descriptions so people won't "go for them" as easily.

Star of Sol - For extraordinary heroism in action. (Not panicking even once, after 3-4 squad deaths, each with higher or equal rank)

I dont think anyone would ever intentionally go for the star of Sol medal... ever. Edit: Darn in my head that star of sol also had a minimum rank requirement somewhere above seargant... still unlikely anyone will sacrifice 4 squadmembers for a shot at that medal.

Hello all, long time follower finally decided to join.

About the medals, for consecutive medals such as

5 kills

10 Kills

etc...

would it be better if instead of making them separate you simply add a marker like they you in the military

5 Kills = first award = Ribbon

10 Kills = second award = bronze star on ribbon

20 kills = 3rd award = 2nd bronze start on ribbon

it coudl be made that every 20 kills you get a bronze start up to 3 in a ribbon once that is reach the next award will be a silver start so

at 80 Kills = silver start

then like at 250 kills = a gold start and you could get like 3 gold stars :)

I like that idea, assuming each ribbon only provides its bonus once so that you don't get a bigger bonus for getting 3 silver stars over one bronze. That could help you get attached to your soldiers while keeping the bonuses low. and the fact that all solders most likely will have different degrees(?) on their medals will be awesome.

Edited by Gorlom

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Yeah, a lot of those sound more achievement-oriented.

A medal should not be something that's easy to get in one mission, and it especially shouldn't be something you try to get in one mission. Medals should be awarded, not farmed.

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AD isnt those things more "achivement" oriented? I'm afraid that it will lead to farming medals.

If medals are going to provide a small bonus you cant ahve too many of them or they will break gameplay. either it will cause problems when soldiers doesnt have enough and they stand no chance against endgame attacks or your soldiers will be able to ignore those endgame attacks because they stacked too many medals.

If you are going to award medals for things like "killing 2 aliens with 1 granade" (dont think any army or organization would award a medal for such things) you're going to have to either remove the bonus or award a bonus for every 5-10 medals the soldier earns. (Edit: or possibly a cap on the number of medals one soldier can earn)

Perhaps some of mine do, I'll admit, but I was just throwing ideas out there. that is after all what this forum is for, ideas.

If anything, shouldn't you be looking at the ones which are consecutive numbers of kills, again and again? I reckon that'd be easier to do than have 2 aliens get in close proximity to one another and have a grenade equipped etc.

these ones are the ones I mean:

-Capture 5 aliens: Bronze Gallantry Medal

-Capture 10 aliens: Silver Gallantry Medal

-Kill 5 Aliens in one mission:Medal of Heroism

-Kill 5 Aliens: Merit Star

-Kill 10 Aliens: Distinguished Merit Star

-Kill 15 Aliens: Outstanding Merit Star

-Kill 20 Aliens: Exemplary Merit Star

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thanks Gorlom,

well yes the whole idea is to receive the bonuses once, but of course it can't be tha simple, for example like it was mention the purple heart, it is very likely that just about every single soldier will get it but it can be done such that.

your first award is you first wounded, regardless of your health then

< 50% bronze

< 25% silver

< 10% gold

or follow the same logic as before, of course i think not all medals need to be rewarded with bonuses, how about penalties? a soldier you take in combat and doesn't fire a single shot? or panics too much :)

there can be a several approaches to the medal system but if it provides some balance then it definitely improves the quality of play.

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Perhaps some of mine do, I'll admit, but I was just throwing ideas out there. that is after all what this forum is for, ideas.

If anything, shouldn't you be looking at the ones which are consecutive numbers of kills, again and again? I reckon that'd be easier to do than have 2 aliens get in close proximity to one another and have a grenade equipped etc.

these ones are the ones I mean:

Consecutive kills sounds easier, but the odds of any particular Xenonaut operative getting, say, fifteen kills is IMO not too great given the extraordinary lethality of this game, and the fact that there's 8-12 other operatives competing with him for kills. In any case, as they're perhaps the most elite military unit on Earth and are constantly placed into incredibly intense and lethal actions, you'd expect any Xenonaut who survived for any length of time to be highly decorated.

Regarding a couple of your suggestions, it's more of a matter that medals for things like "kill 2 aliens with one grenade" or "break your riot shield" feel far more like video game achievements than real-life medals to me, while something like "kill X enemies" is something a medal is often given out for in real life. The qualifications for game medals need to abstract what they're awarded for on real-life battlefields, and something like a kill limit works pretty decently for that, as it qualifies the soldier's competence.

Also, as others have noted, a medal should be something a soldier receives due to extraordinary circumstances, not something which could be "farmed" in a manner similar to that of an achievement. You can try to "farm" kills for the kill counter, but it's likely going to result in massacres of your entire squad as you need to leave enemies alive.

Xracer's suggestion is excellent, and a better version of what I had in mind; an award that scales up in rank as you get more kills.

Edited by TheTuninator

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For this discussion im assuming that each medal/ribbon gives +1 bravery and no other stat will be adjusted.

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As I said before, I'm throwing out ideas, that's all. Why don't we limit it to new ideas, rather than telling people what they have done wrong.

But I digress. Now you say that medals should be more like the ones you can get in real life. Well that's fine. But it's not as clear cut as you make it. How is it that getting your shield shot is too achievement like, and can be farmed (even though each soldier can only get it once, and there is no reason they can't die when it does), but getting your men shot is a valid option (purple heart idea)?

I think there is a very blurry line between what is and isn't 'medal like'

I do like the ideas of either ribbons just giving no bonuses or requiring more of them to get the bonus, or getting consecutively better medals, but not gaining anything from the better ones. But that's really up to balance, and how valuable 1 extra bravery is

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Consecutive kills sounds easier, but the odds of any particular Xenonaut operative getting, say, fifteen kills is IMO not too great given the extraordinary lethality of this game, and the fact that there's 8-12 other operatives competing with him for kills. In any case, as they're perhaps the most elite military unit on Earth and are constantly placed into incredibly intense and lethal actions, you'd expect any Xenonaut who survived for any length of time to be highly decorated.

Also you can't assume this. Remember that people save-scummed a lot in X-COM, or those who didn't got pretty damn good at keeping their men alive. So saying it's unlikely that people can get over 5 kills is, well, not.

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Also you can't assume this. Remember that people save-scummed a lot in X-COM, or those who didn't got pretty damn good at keeping their men alive. So saying it's unlikely that people can get over 5 kills is, well, not.

People save-scummed, yes, but the game absolutely should not be designed with save-scumming in mind. Save-scumming, by its very purpose, breaks the game.

And I'm not saying that it's unlikely people will get over 5 kills, I was referring more to the higher ones such as 15 or 20. Some people get very good at keep their men alive, it's true, but then you deserve for your soldiers to get medals because they will all be performing extremely well; that's the entire point of having medals. It's not for the stat bonus, which will likely be largely immaterial; it's for the purposes of prestige and adding more character to your soldiers.

As I said before, I'm throwing out ideas, that's all. Why don't we limit it to new ideas, rather than telling people what they have done wrong.

But I digress. Now you say that medals should be more like the ones you can get in real life. Well that's fine. But it's not as clear cut as you make it. How is it that getting your shield shot is too achievement like, and can be farmed (even though each soldier can only get it once, and there is no reason they can't die when it does), but getting your men shot is a valid option (purple heart idea)?

Because the Purple Heart is a real-life decoration, there's no real-life decoration for taking a few bullets to a riot shield. As Xenonauts seeks to achieve a realistic Cold War atmosphere, the medals need to be based upon the principles behind real decorations.

And sorry if I came off as a bit harsh, but the whole point of this thread is to debate what exactly we think should constitute medals for the game, and to do so we need to critique each others' proposals. Feel free to criticize my suggestions as well, I don't mind.

Edited by TheTuninator

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Well, I don't know about medals in real life being passed out to people when they killed their X'th enemy exactly, but one of the advantages we have with a medal system is that the game doesn't have to tell you outright what the soldier did to get the medal.

A medal for preventing death with a combat shield doesn't need to clearly state that this is what caused the award. "For perseverance under fire." for example is all it needs to say, and toss in a fancy name for the medal.

Of course what actions reward what will be on the net after a few weeks, but not all players look up on these things. And if you read what is required to get real medals, they are quite vague more often than not. Purple Heart and Service ribbons/patches being the obvious ones out.

Anyways, what about patches as well? No bonuses, just to create character. After X kills, or X missions with a sniper rifle a soldier will finally get the heavily coveted Sniper badge. Pistol kills, or spotting a lot of aliens might garner a soldier a Recon badge?

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Because the Purple Heart is a real-life decoration, there's no real-life decoration for taking a few bullets to a riot shield. As Xenonauts seeks to achieve a realistic Cold War atmosphere, the medals need to be based upon the principles behind real decorations.

And sorry if I came off as a bit harsh, but the whole point of this thread is to debate what exactly we think should constitute medals for the game, and to do so we need to critique each others' proposals. Feel free to criticize my suggestions as well, I don't mind.

Don't worry you're not coming off harsh at all.

Ok so you said at the top (paraphrased and adapted) that we should not make the game with the idea that people will not play the game according to how it is supposed to be played. Roughly, right?

Now I would say that the combat shield is designed to be used to soak up damage allowing your other members to breach the UFO and kill the aliens. Now the man who is constantly holding that combat shield is pretty damn brave if you ask me, especially if you consider that the shield could fail at any moment and the man could die...

But there are medals for men and women who show incredible bravery and do heroic things. I'd say helping keep men and women around you alive is pretty heroic.

Plus this is a forum for ideas, if we are just going to re-use real medal ideas shouldn't Chris just ask a military historian or something like that?

Some more ideas (no names sorry, you guys are better at that then me):

- surviving your first UFO mission

- sighting the first of a new Alien species

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I'd agree entirely that the idea of being the first man into a UFO with the breaching shield is well worth a medal under some circumstances; however, I'm not sure of how exactly we would quantify that, as simply having a shield shot out from under you doesn't seem enough to me. Maybe a certain number of times as the pointman on a UFO breach, pointman on a particularly lethal breach (something like a battleship) or something like that?

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but that makes no sense! Because apparently just getting shot (with no disclaimer, you could be running around the battlefield in your undies for all I know) gets you a purple heart. Running around the battlefield in your undies proabably should get you a medal for bravery (or stupidity), but getting shot while doing it shouldn't get you a purple heart.

At least if his combat shield breaks you know he was using it correctly (ie not getting shot in the back)

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Again, though, because the Purple Heart is a real-world medal, it actually does make sense. There's precedence.

Edited by TheTuninator

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