Danny Pockets Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to start complaining about this, but I'm just going to go ahead and do it anyway. First let me say that I've clocked up 17 hours playing the game over the last week and for the most part I'm really, really loving it. But to be honest I'm starting to feel like the cover system is as bad as Enemy Unknown. I regularly have aliens shooting at me through solid walls where they can't possibly have line of sight. That's not cool. Often, my troops are getting shot at but apparently I have no line of sight to my attacker, and that's not cool either. Super frustrating! Also, why can't I lob grenades over things! The number of times I've tried to lob a grenade and it just lands at my feet again. It makes me so mad! And another thing: Sometimes aliens seem to just disappear from view. I just played a mission where the tile that an alien had been in was fully illuminated, it's not like it had gone black again because I had no line of sight. It was visible, and it was empty. So I figured the alien had moved away. Nope. I walked my guy over there and suddenly the alien is just back again. I was so upset about it I decided to register on this forum and make this post. And I am naturally a very, very lazy person, so you can appreciate just how upset I must be right now. Oh, and if I shoot an alien in the face at point blank range with a shotgun, it should be dead. If I shoot it twice in the face at point blank range with the same shotgun it should be especially dead. Seriously, I was no more than two or three tiles away. With shotgun. Twice! I mean, come on! Maybe if I understood the mechanics behind this it would all make a bit more sense. But I guess my point is that it just "feels" wrong when this sort of stuff happens. It feels unfair, and unintuitive, and it takes me out of the game. But for the most part, really great game. And being a huge arsehole, saying nice things does not come easy to me. So, you're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalrusJones Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Making shotguns (Well, Gun) fast to use, weak weapons kinda felt like a flaw to me... I made a mod to fix this (It does a lot to all ballistic weapons.) As for the map/AI issues... I feel your pain.... But it is beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 In the current version I believe the shotgun had its damage upped to something like 45, from the 25 it used to be. If you aren't in 19.2 then you are still in the used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Aliens shooting through walls is a known bug. Grenades are currently broken but are in the process of bring fixed. Not sure if the disappearing alien was a bug or if it was hidden by the fog of war. The screen shouldn't return to black once it has been uncovered but it will grey out slightly if you don't have anyone currently able to see that spot. Aliens in the greyed out part will be invisible while the rest of the objects will remain visible. Shotguns are fairly strong weapons in the current balance pass (which is not yet complete) but have no armour penetration. Depending on the enemy you were fighting it may have just had too much armour for your shotgun to get through. It does depend on which version of the game (stable or experimental) you are playing to how quickly you can expect things to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Also consider this game attempts to "simulate" things, but that comes with certain understandings. When you run right up to an Alien and shoot him, you arent running up to a statue and popping a round in it. The percentage to hit and how much damage is taken is a representation of the fact the alien sees you run up to it and may quickly dodge your shot, or even hold up its hands/arms/weapon to block some of the shot. Granted shotguns feel as though they need an accuracy buff...or at least a buff in closer ranges. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but weapons probably should have more varied range accuracies. Represented by each tile being a changing shade of color from dark green (Super optimal) through yellow (Reduced accuracy and damage) to red (Greatly reduced accuracy and damage). Of course shotgun should be crazy accurate within a 2--3 tile range and sniper riffles should suffer a rather large penalty at closer range. I think it works/is intended to work this way already, but a more delineated change of color to show the decreased accuracy as range increases and showing where the penalties exactly lie when using a sniper riffle at close range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Pockets Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 Aliens shooting through walls is a known bug.Not sure if the disappearing alien was a bug or if it was hidden by the fog of war. The screen shouldn't return to black once it has been uncovered but it will grey out slightly if you don't have anyone currently able to see that spot. Aliens in the greyed out part will be invisible while the rest of the objects will remain visible. Hello! Thanks for the replies. I am playing the stable build, so it sounds like much of what I complained about is being addressed. So, good show! I had a bit more of a think about this fog of war business as I've kept playing. I have noticed for example that an alien's visibility or lack thereof can sometimes be the difference between a soldier being crouched or not. Which I suppose is fair enough. However, the specific incident that I complained was a little bit different. The area in which the alien had been visible didn't go back to black, so it was indeed fow as you say. BUT! I had multiple soldiers who had line of sight to the alien. One was very close, and the others were farther away, but they had all been able to target and shoot at the offending alien. When I moved the closest soldier back behind a wall, that's when the alien could no longer be seen, disappeared inside the fog of war. But it felt to me that those other soldiers should still be able to see the alien, seeing as they had been able to shoot at it the previous turn. I should point at that this was a night mission. So I'm guessing that this severely increases fog of war. But nonetheless, it felt wrong to me that the difference between this alien remaining visible to the soldiers that were farther away was whether the closer soldier had line of sight to that alien. From paying closer attention to this stuff as I've kept playing, I do realise that this is kind of the way these mechanics work, as in this is seems like a deliberate choice from the developers. I don't mind soldiers having to be quite close to an area to make it visible/reveal aliens in the first place. But it seems weird to me that a soldier which has been able to shoot at an alien one turn would simply lose sight of alien because a different, closer soldier no longer has line of sight to that alien. I hope that make sense, I think a lot of those sentences are grammatically awkward, but I hope you get the idea. Nice one gents, thanks again for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I think that is because of the squad sight. If any one of your troops can see an enemy then all troops can fire on it, barring any obstacles in the way. In your example only one of those soldiers was actually able to see the enemy, the others were using him as a spotter. Once he backed off so that he could no longer see the enemy they were unable to attack because they had lost their scout. If no one was close enough to see the enemy how would you know if it was in the same spot or had moved away? Would it be an interesting challenge to kill an enemy who was unable to defend against your troops because there was no one close enough to see him but he could be shot by everyone on the enemy team? When the aliens spot your troops and could kill them using the same mechanic would it be fun or frustrating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Yeah, sounds like a night mission. Since LoS updates in real-time at night, you need to keep spotters in place. It gets odd with flares since it looks revealed, but since there's no-one that can actually see that tile (uses daytime sight range for this check I think) its reported empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svidangel Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Heh, LoS in night missions. http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/6143-19-2-ground-combat-Soldier-pause-when-seeing-alien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Pockets Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 If no one was close enough to see the enemy how would you know if it was in the same spot or had moved away? Would it be an interesting challenge to kill an enemy who was unable to defend against your troops because there was no one close enough to see him but he could be shot by everyone on the enemy team? When the aliens spot your troops and could kill them using the same mechanic would it be fun or frustrating? Well, I don't know, I seem to regularly get shot by aliens out of areas that haven't been revealed yet so I have no opportunity to shoot back or even to have known that my soldiers were in enemy line of sight. Though I'm not particularly complaining about this, I'm not necessarily saying that it should be symmetrical. When I think back to the incident, the farther away soldiers weren't THAT far away, so it "felt" like they ought to have still been able to fire (and I'm pretty sure the area was lit by a flare), but of course this is just a matter of my limited perspective so I don't know what fiddling with these mechanics would result in. I'm not even that upset about it any more to be honest; I'm much more upset about all my fighter jets that just got shot down, but I only have myself to blame for that... Although after having read this : Heh, LoS in night missions. http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/6143-19-2-ground-combat-Soldier-pause-when-seeing-alien I realise that actually the real problem was that the soldier I ran over to where I thought the alien had moved away from didn't have his movement interrupted. Usually a soldier stops as soon as an alien becomes visible, which would have let me save my guy in this instance, but he just casually rocked right on over. But apparently you're aware of this, too. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathra Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Aliens have squad sight too. If one can see a trooper, they all can see them (and due to a bug they'll usually try to fire anyways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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