Rebel44 Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 I have some objections against current hidden implementation of movement - I use V19 experimental and when my soldiers see alien moving/shooting etc, aliens action is overlapped with "hidden movement" - so I dont see what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranak Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 That screen isn't quite working right atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Browse to Xenonauts\assets\gui\GroundCombat\hiddenmovement and replace the hiddenmovement_small.png with a transparent image. Some people also say that deleting the file works as well, but I can't testify to that. A big thanks to Gaud for pointing that out; it's amazing how something so simple as no hidden movement screen can improve the game a ton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightzy Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Can you share a transparent image? I dunno how to make one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol' Stinky Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Okay. Just point it towards your xeno install dir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 You can make some quite nice screens with a bit of effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTonGamer Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 I can confirm moving "hiddenmovement_small.png" out of the "Xenonauts\assets\gui\GroundCombat\hiddenmovement" seems to work really well. I didn't want to delete the file so I just moved it out and now the hidden movement graphic no longer hides the alien/civilian movement we are intended to be able to see. Totally playable now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The current camera behaviour is not intentional and will be corrected - the only time the hidden movement popup should be displayed is when the movement/shooting happens entirely under the FOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupsto Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Very glad to hear this is unintentional. I don't see why there is was even a hidden movement pop up initially. can't see just continue to view the area our soldiers can see? its anoying and unnessary. besides we cannot tell which direction sounds are coming from (currently) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It is because UFO:EU had the hidden movement screen, and it's nostalgic. Making it less obtrusive is a modern "improvement" (I put the quotes because some may not like it. Provided it's implemented correctly, I'm fine with it. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mytheos Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It is because UFO:EU had the hidden movement screen, and it's nostalgic. Making it less obtrusive is a modern "improvement" (I put the quotes because some may not like it. Provided it's implemented correctly, I'm fine with it. ) I agree. I think it was supposed to capture the feeling of hearing things you cant see, and the screen would pop down and you might catch a glimpse of an alien move back into the FOW and so forth. Screen goes black you hear moving, shots are firering, stuff is getting blown apart, how can you not feel like "Oh crap what is happening?!" And then you see flashes of Aliens moving about and try to remember where they are. Just one of the many elements to create tension. So let them get it working right and I'm sure people will be fine with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 game shoud allow to disable "hidden movement" if player dont want it and automated camera movement, let player decide where to focus camera, dont drag it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 game shoud allow to disable "hidden movement" if player dont want it and automated camera movement, let player decide where to focus camera, dont drag it around. I disagree, for the following reasons. When it's the alien's turn, the camera stays still if none of your guys can see anything, and it shows the hidden movement pop-up. When one of your soldiers can see something, it moves over so you can see what he/she sees, then, once it's over, it goes back to the still camera with the hidden movement pop-up. Needing to manually move the camera over to the one random soldier who saw the plasma bolt whiz by would be tedious and be nigh impossible, actually, considering the game doesn't pause when anything happens. You'd end up missing everything, because it was off screen and the camera wasn't showing you where it was. Another reason, the jumping camera movement is very much original game, and it very much adds to the confusion of a battlefield. Personally, I like it a lot, and wouldn't have it any other way. Lastly, I'm sure the developers have more important things to do than to allow the player an option to mess with the hidden movement screen mechanics they're working so hard on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 GizmoGomez let me decide how i want to play MYSELF, i dont want to watch how bullets fly, i dont want to watch how alliens shot, i want my camera stay exactly where i placed it before ended turn, if you want to track all this events - do it, but i wont. same with my own turn, i just dont need to watch how bullets fly, i dont want to focus on my units just to damn refocus on allien unit that i decided to attack, i track positions of my units in my head, also i track allient positions in my own head i just dont need any "assistance" for this. Single option "disable automated camera movement" and problem solved, everyone who cant track battlefield will be dragged around, i will stay where i want to stay. This game currently force everyone to play in predefined way, this is not right, camera shoud not be dragged automatically without user's will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 My only issue with the camera in my turn is that sometimes it doesn't recentre where I positioned it after moving. I like the tracking so as long as that part is sorted then I am happy. The hidden movement part is not quite right yet but once it gets tweaked so that the appropriate things get shown/hidden then it should improve. A set of checkboxes to enable/disable some features may or may not be possible depending on how those features work in the crappy game engine they devs are stuck with. More options means more happy players though so I am sure Goldhawk will look into it once they have the features fully implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 GizmoGomezlet me decide how i want to play MYSELF, i dont want to watch how bullets fly, i dont want to watch how alliens shot, i want my camera stay exactly where i placed it before ended turn, if you want to track all this events - do it, but i wont. same with my own turn, i just dont need to watch how bullets fly, i dont want to focus on my units just to damn refocus on allien unit that i decided to attack, i track positions of my units in my head, also i track allient positions in my own head i just dont need any "assistance" for this. Single option "disable automated camera movement" and problem solved, everyone who cant track battlefield will be dragged around, i will stay where i want to stay. This game currently force everyone to play in predefined way, this is not right, camera shoud not be dragged automatically without user's will. My apologies, I misunderstood. I thought you still wanted to be able to see all of those events, since (for me anyway) they help the player to understand what is going on on the battlefield. If you don't care about seeing if your shots hit, or if your guys are shot in hidden movement, or from which direction the aliens are gunning down your troops during their turn, then sure, we can have an option for that. ...Provided you convince Chris to make it so. There lies the challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jupsto Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 seems like an engine limitation to me, why does the camera did to be taken out of control by the user for the enemies turn? you also lose control, or at least it moves, for certain things during your turn and its annoying and disorientating. if its purely for nostalgia then it should be optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Well, to me it's not for nostalgia (although it is nostalgic). Once it's implemented correctly, it will be purely functional. Lets say you're shooting at an alien. You have the camera over the alien when you press fire (obviously, otherwise you couldn't press fire, could you?) So, you say that you don't want the camera to follow the bullet on it's way to the enemy, and to just leave the camera under your control. What happens when you miss, and the shot flies past the enemy and hits something behind it? Or something before it? What happens when you accidentally shoot your own guy in the back, and you don't realize it because you didn't see it? (Granted, you probably could guess it from the sound, but the point is still valid, I think.) The camera following the bullet alleviates these potential problems. Otherwise, the player would have to hunt around for where the bullet hit, wasting time imo. Lets say it's the hidden movement phase. You press the end turn button as you're looking at one guy. Suddenly you hear a trio of plasma bolts fired, and they hit another guy you're not looking at. You have guys looking at that guy, so you know that were you looking at him you would have seen where the plasma came from, but since the camera didn't move to show you what was happening at the moment, you weren't able to get and use that vital information. Basically, my point is that the camera movement isn't just some old X-Com nostalgia thing. It's designed to allow you to see everything that happens on the battlefield. Literally every time something moves that you can see, the camera follows it. Since only one thing ever happens at a time, you can literally see everything that can be seen. If you had to move the camera yourself, you wouldn't be able to be fast enough to catch all of the information, even if you knew where to look you'd have missed it by the time you got there. Now, this all being said, it's obviously not finished yet, nor is it working quite as intended. There are bugs and odd quirks that can (and will) be ironed out. Once that's finished I'm sure it won't be nearly as annoying and disorienting. I hope that was helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 The camera following the bullet alleviates these potential problems. Otherwise, the player would have to hunt around for where the bullet hit, wasting time imo. There is no reason to do it, when you aim game notify about all possible objects that can soak projectile, also you anyway cant do anything with this after you shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GizmoGomez Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 That's not necessarily true. The line simply shows things that are in the way if the bullet travels in a straight line to the target. What happens when the aim of the bullet is off to the right or left? Especially with the wide aim deviations this game has, it'd take a while to find out exactly where the bullet landed. While this is obviously not necessary to play the game, I for one, and I'd expect that other commanders, would want to see where the bullet landed so they could assess the new situation. Did the bullet hit the ground, changing nothing? Or did it destroy/damage some wall, prop, or cover, thereby changing the conditions of the battle? The player would have to look around to find where the bullet hit. Unless, of course, they don't care about knowing what's going on in the battlefield around them. However, that seems counterintuitive to me. You are entitled to your own opinion. However, you cannot deny that there is a reason for the camera movement. It is flawed at the moment, yes, but it's in beta stages, of course it's not going to be perfect yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 bullets change nothing on field in 99% of cases, there is no reason to check every time, especially no reason to force everyone to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranak Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 bullets change nothing on field in 99% of cases, there is no reason to check every time, especially no reason to force everyone to check. They do *something* far more often than 1% of the time. And not following them would leave a lot of players looking around trying to figure out what happened/where their shot went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawCode Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 i hold no more then two month this game, but, for first 2 month of gameplay, each ground combat, i never accept information about bullet path, i just dont need it, it does not affect my gameplay, i can't see reason why game force me to recieve this information. last 4 runs, i never saw any projectile change something on field that i not expect anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderGr Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 i hold no more then two month this game, but, for first 2 month of gameplay, each ground combat, i never accept information about bullet path, i just dont need it, it does not affect my gameplay, i can't see reason why game force me to recieve this information.last 4 runs, i never saw any projectile change something on field that i not expect anyway. OK, here is the thing. You certainly want to know the chances you have to hit the target. It is, also, nice to know the chances of hitting a fellow soldier near the path of the projectile. If there is cover and you are using a weapon that can destroy the cover, you also want to know the chances you have to hit that cover. The combined information makes it easier for you to decide if you are going to take the shot or not. A last thing is that the information about the bullet's path shows you the point that the damage is reduced(yellow) due to distance, as well as what blocks your path, if there is something that does so, as it may not be clear, sometimes, what is the reason you cannot make the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightzy Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I have gotten used to the 'transparent screen' now and despise the old hidden movement picture thing that seems to block me off from the game mentally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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