Moonshine Fox

Firaxis Games' XCOM: Enemy Unknown announced!

1,295 posts in this topic

I think you are, Max_Caine. At least I don't, I just come here and hope you've posted some new stuff.

You're my number one go-to guy for XCOM: EU. That in itself actually merits a Racoon Stamp of Approval! Good work! p

Edited by Swe_Racoon
Spelling wrong and stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lie of sight psionics was one of the things that came up on the thread to try and get it into Xenonauts for humans. :-(

blink and you miss the intercept, as they don't give anything away on the aircraft combat. Still the UFO detection is pretty faithful and there's a map I hadn't seen before that looked good. Mind you, it all looks good really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was no interception shown there, not in the way that matters. :/ Not bad though aside from annoying journalists, it's like "rts" is some catchphrase with no specific meaning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something they accidentally said gave me an idea. Specifically, it was something like "In this game, you're commanding an alien invasion." Of course, the guy corrected himself shortly after, but it gave me the idea:

How about an X-COM type game where you don't play as X-COM but, instead, play as the aliens? The tactical game would work pretty much the same, but the geoscape would have to be radically different. I think it could be pretty bloody fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But your tech and upgrades would so overpower the humans there wouldn't really be a lot of challenge to that IMO.... right now you play as the underdogs, stealing what you can (weapons, tech, etc) and getting by however you are able under pressure to save as much as possible. If you were the aliens wheres the drama? The human tech is miles worse. Nothing holds you back from bringing out the best stuff right away and crushing all resistance, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would require some other mechanics. Something about setting up a beachhead and stuff. It could be done but it would look very different from how the aliens act from the xenonaut or X-com perspective imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a game that already does that - sort of. X-com: the Two Sides is a xcom multiplayer where one guy plays as xcom, the other guy as the aliens. Check it out!

EDIT: One thing I will say about the E3 coverage – there are a buttload of interviews. Holy crap are there interviews with any and all of the developers who turned up for the expo (some of them look very uncomfortable), but there’s very little actual footage. I suspect this is because the major players (IGN and G4, for example) all want “exclusives”, and Firaxis has given them little slices of the pie. There’s also quite a few youtube bottom-feeders who make videos with titles like “Re: XCOM E3”, and all they are are pathetic attempts to get people to come subscribe to their channel.

Edited by Max_Caine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So yeah. My search for more actual game footage from E3 continues. Behold!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, looking at that interview, the interviewee says that you might have it all if you're willing to stall for time. It seems the developers believe most people won't. I guess he doesn't know the Power Of The Grind!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is getting weird, no aimed shots...

I think I can get behind what they're doing here. Increased accuracy through flanking should promote more tactical thinking. If you want more favourable shots you need to work on your positioning, setting up crossfires and such. Doesn't sound like a bad change.

As for the research and the way missions come up I have a feeling much of the campaign is going to feel very scripted but hopefully that won't be the case. It's like people today don't know what to do when left to their own devices and instead need to be fed these binary choices to provide an illusion of decision making. At least the Firaxis devs seem to think so but we'll see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is anybody else worried that this game is likely to be a Theseus Ship incident?

That link seems to not really discuss the paradox. It's asking if the ship, whether the new one or the old one, is still Theseus possession, not if it is the same ship. It's a fallacy as far as I can tell.

And then it ends with an unrelated "riddle like" misleading question about which ship he sailed.

Since it's a re-imagining rather then a remake I don't think Theseus ship paradox has any relevance though. It stopped to be "qualitatively identical" a long time ago. And it is definitely not "numerically identical". It can't really be argued to be the same as X-com in any way as far as I can tell. It is similar in many aspects but it's not the same.

Edit: I'm probably misunderstanding what you mean by suggesting it's a Theseus ship paradox.

Edited by Gorlom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edit: I'm probably misunderstanding what you mean by suggesting it's a Theseus ship paradox.

Perhaps this explains it better.

Law 45: Preach the Need for Change, but Never Reform too much at Once

Everyone understands the need for change in the abstract, but on the day-to-day level people are creatures of habit. Too much innovation is traumatic, and will lead to revolt. If you are new to a position of power, or an outsider trying to build a power base, make a show of respecting the old way of doing things. If change is necessary, make it feel like a gentle improvement on the past.

Robert Greene The 48 Laws Of Power

Firaxis made some big mistakes by not following this rule. While I'm starting to accept this game won't be all it could be due to inferior console hardware concessions, I'm starting to accept it as is.

On a side note, does anybody else think it's hilarious they have their radar dish underground?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note, does anybody else think it's hilarious they have their radar dish underground?

Maybe its a periscope radar dish? :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps the artist/base designers misunderstood how ground penetrating radar works?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I noticed it as well. :P I didn't want to say anything because I don't know much about these things, I thought maybe there is some way that a dish can receive signals underground but it does look very silly. Almost like a form of artistic irony, sheep herding dogs, that sort of thing. Why is that dish even needed if they use satellites for detection? Ground radar for the base area, satellites for everywhere else? Seems weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it is for communicating with the satellites rather than radar sweeps, who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, I noticed it as well. :P I didn't want to say anything because I don't know much about these things, I thought maybe there is some way that a dish can receive signals underground but it does look very silly. Almost like a form of artistic irony, sheep herding dogs, that sort of thing. Why is that dish even needed if they use satellites for detection? Ground radar for the base area, satellites for everywhere else? Seems weird.

Yeah, I agree that it seems weird, but it's actually (relatively) realistic. It's a satellite uplink, and radio waves can penetrate the ground if they're powerful enough and at the correct frequencies. It looks a little odd, but it's at least plausibly possible. No idea how well it'd work in reality, though - don't think I've ever heard of anyone using ground-penetrating radio for ground-to-satellite communication before.

I think I can get behind what they're doing here. Increased accuracy through flanking should promote more tactical thinking. If you want more favourable shots you need to work on your positioning, setting up crossfires and such. Doesn't sound like a bad change.

As for the research and the way missions come up I have a feeling much of the campaign is going to feel very scripted but hopefully that won't be the case. It's like people today don't know what to do when left to their own devices and instead need to be fed these binary choices to provide an illusion of decision making. At least the Firaxis devs seem to think so but we'll see.

I have no problem with the research bit - researching more than one thing at a time was never a worthwhile proposition in the original, so eliminating that isn't a big deal. We haven't heard enough about the mission structure for me to have formed an opinion either way, but I do like the sound of multiple types of missions at least.

I'm not a fan of 'no aimed shots', though. Flanking's a great change, agreed, but you should still be able to sacrifice a move action in order to fire an aimed shot or do suppression fire or whatever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Langy, I suspect that there is an "aimed shot", but as XCOM:EU has a class-based structure, "aimed shot" will probably be SweetAssManoeuver #3 of the Sniper Classes' skillset. That's what happens when instead of giving everyone a standard set of abilities (modified by equipment used), you have a custom set per class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure about that - I know that sniper rifles can't be fired if you've moved that turn (so they can't snap-shot). I wouldn't consider that aiming.

I'd be fine with every basic soldier being able to 'aim' a weapon as part of the 'every soldier can do this' set of abilities. Sounds reasonable - just means the sniper gets to aim better and faster than everyone else, which is also fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will admit one of the things I enjoyed about XCOM was that everyone can try everything, they just might not be great at it.

Class abilities and "gimmicky" powers takes away some of that sense of "realism" and makes it harder to suspend disbelief, because you're reminded it's just a game construct.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True enough, though I actually understand why they went with class abilities and such - in reality, these soldiers would each have a distinct military occupation specialty, and they'd specialize in specific fields - you wouldn't have the heavy weapons guy suddenly start acting like a scout/sniper.

I just hope the abilities don't completely detract from realism; making it so only one guy carries a rocket launcher is fine, or the sniper's overwatch-type abilities. But making it so only one type of soldier can do something basic like flank or aim or something? That would be pretty stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my point of view having 'powers' is the best method for how they've done the game. You either have lots of generic soldiers and focus on strategy (-ish. Overall battlefield control) or a few soldiers with powers and focus on tactics. Otherwise it takes up too much headspace.

I think Max_Caine is right though. Its probably called head-shot though, and snipers get snap-shot as an ability. There was an article where it mentioned a high-level Sniper taking out two aliens in a single turn with a plasma rifle. And an Assault running most of the way across the map cloaked and grappling up a building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now