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Squad Organization


ElTee

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How do you organize your squads? In my last play through (V15), I did 3 4-man teams organized as the following:

1. Team Leader: M16A1, M9, Grenades

2. Rifleman: M16A1, Medipack, Grenades

3. Auto Rifleman: FN MAG, LMG Ammo, Grenades

4. Designated Marksman: PSG1, M9, Grenades

It was pretty balanced, but it had some disadvantages:

1. Unless they got to high ranks, my squad would either have to move at the slow speed of the Auto Rifleman so he can have reaction fire, or abandon LMGs having reaction fire completely.

2. More often than not, I'd feel the need to split up in teams of 4 to 6. I'd have one or two guys go up north; four guys go to up the middle, three guys go north east and three going south east.

So now I'm considering having two fireteams of four, and two Scout elements. So I'd have fireteams set up as above (maybe have two Riflemen instead of the LMGer?) and elements set up like this:

1. Rifleman: M16A1, Medipack, Grenades

2. Designated Marksman: PSG1, M9, Grenades

I haven't used Shotguns since I figure they"ll have shit accuracy. Is it possible to throw ammo? Because maybe I could give the Auto Riflemen a pistol, and have someone nearby carry ammo without them having to go in the backpack.

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I don't.

USMC fireteam just doesn't work for Xeno.

When did the weapons get names? My 16.1 still has "ballistic rifles".

Generally I use this configuration, going X-Y:

* Missile HWP

* Precision rifle

* Rocket launcher

* Precision rifle

* Precision rifle

* Rocket launcher

* Precision rifle

* Precision rifle

* Precision rifle

* Precision rifle

More rocket launchers in later game.

I haven't used Shotguns since I figure they"ll have shit accuracy.

As it stands there's almost no real reason to use weapons that are not rocket launchers, precision rifles, or later their equivalents. Shotguns are *almost* useful because of low TU per shot, but only until you meet armored aliens.

And PSG1? Did you mod it in yourself?

Edited by HWP
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I didn't mod in the names, but all the weapons in the game are IRL weapons. Such as the Ballistic Rifle clearly being an M16A1. :P I just find it faster and nicer sounding to type those names than 'Ballistic Rifle'.

Missile HWP is..? Do you find yourself moving too slow with rockets or do you just not bother reserving reaction shots for them?

The PSG1, there's: C:\Program Files (x86)\Desura\Common\xenonauts\assets\weapons\ballistic\alternative

All of those are extra images that I think are meant for modders or people who want to re-skin their weapons. The PSG-1 is one of them. All I did was replace the precision rifle image with it and renamed the image to 'precisionrifle'. Bam. Instant PSG-1!

Regarding Shotguns..I doubt the lesser amount of TU used outweighs the fact you have to get closer, and therefore possibly risk reaction-fire.

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Squad organization the armadillo style:

First get rid of any tanks or vehicles

Second hire as many men as possible

Third put about 8-12 men on the whirlybird

Fourth Replace all shotguns with M16's and anybody who can carry big guns gets a big gun (LMG or Sniper)

Fifth go kill aliens and gain skills, vehicles dont gain skill so I dont use em

Nobody gets left behind...

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Squad organization the armadillo style:

First get rid of any tanks or vehicles

Second hire as many men as possible

Third put about 8-12 men on the whirlybird

Fourth Replace all shotguns with M16's and anybody who can carry big guns gets a big gun (LMG or Sniper)

Fifth go kill aliens and gain skills, vehicles dont gain skill so I dont use em

Nobody gets left behind...

One other issue I have with LMGs is that all of your starting soldiers usually won't be able to have Jackal Armor + the LMG.

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There isn't really any reason to have the LMG in the first place - it's inferior to every other weapon except for the pistol. Being heavy is just icing on the cake.

In-game I mean.

I disagree. It IS the worse choice for fresh recruits compared to a marksmans rifle, but once you get up to Lt's and Cpt's with strength above 65 and a boat load of AP, they're actually rather useful if there's multiple targets close together or you want to drop something quickly.

Before the change a few patches back, which upped them to 45 AP per burst, they were incredibly useful as it was only 25AP to shoot. I think the 45 AP may have been too steep. 40 perhaps, or even 35 should have been the burst cost. Or, a reduced burst cost if the unit hasn't moved, 45 if it has.

Edited by Buzzles
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I still outfit a couple of troops with the LMG to start with. If I take the time to position them properly to support the others without injuring them, they are still useful for support fire/suppression as well as simple stopping power.

Oddly, little John thothkins always seems to get this weapon due to his stats. :)

As Buzzles mentions, it's not long before you get some extra mobility as well as the above too.

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Since the Roles got added I've actually been using the crap out of them, though I pretty heavily modify all the basic ones first. I keep the squad comp the same that it starts you out with by default, but mod the kits so they're a little more specialized.

Commando (x1) - Pistol + Clips x 3, Smoke, Flashbang, Frag, C4

Assault (x2) - Shotgun + Clips x 3, Flashbang x 3, Frag x 3

Rifleman (x2) - M16 + Clips x 2, Pistol + Clip, Smoke and Frags x 2

Heavy Gunner (x1) - LMG + Clips x 3, Smoke x 3

Field Medic (x1) - M16 + Clips x 2, Medkit, Smoke x 2

Rocketeer (x0, x1 later on when Hunter loses effectiveness) - Launcher + Rockets x 4 (Assorted based on preference/current needs), Smoke x 2

Sniper - Sniper + Clips x 2, Medkit, Smoke x 2

I don't use the Rocketeer's until further in when I need more firepower. I use the Hunter early on to fill that role instead. Medics and Rifleman are interchangeable as needed. Heavy Gunner for just laying down various types of fire support and suppression. Assault gunners are strictly for Breach and Clear, generally kept out of the way or used for flanking maneuvers on the open field. Commando's used as scouting elements and secondary breaching element, hence the C4. Snipers are Snipers except when they're secondary medical elements or support elements.

General strategy here is built around the expectation of lots of open ground or having small amounts of cover, and using smoke to make up for that shortcoming, as well as provide cover for moving up. Tactical retreat is a bigger priority than a assault with this mindset.

Tactically, it's less about making sure the opponents die and more about making sure my guys live and take as little fire as possible in the process, hence the over-abundance of smoke grenades. People seem to feel shotguns are worthless, but at least early on, the high damage output makes them great, and for Breach and Clear, range isn't really an issue, so Shotguns tend to be ideal. The LMG may be slow moving, but being able to pepper an area and cover a retreat makes them worth lugging around when using these tactics. And then when it's time for the Heavy Gunner to pull back, the Sniper can cover him, and ideally pick off a couple targets in the process, making the next push that much more likely to succeed.

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Before the change a few patches back, which upped them to 45 AP per burst, they were incredibly useful as it was only 25AP to shoot.

Yeah, but at 45AP per burst and about the worst accuracy, vs. the best accuracy of marksman rifles and their almost-AR (single) rate of fire, it's no contest.

If you're min-maxing and power-playing rather than role-playing that is.

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My only gripe with the weapon balance of the ballistics is the high AP cost on the LMG. Most soldiers can't move and shoot using the LMG in the same turn. Even if they were only able to move 1-3 tiles, it would make a huge difference, at least to my particular play style where I use them in a supporting role. Bumping the AP cost down to even just 40 would solve a lot of issues I have in that regard. Other than that, the weapons actually feel really good to me. Shotgunners are great breach-men, Snipers rules the open field, and Riflemen fill the gaps, hold the lines, and do respectably well in most mid-range engagements. With the prohibitive AP cost of the LMG though, their only efficient use atm would be against larger targets, the likes of which I've not encountered yet, and by the time you'd be likely to face them in the course of a real game, you would probably already have something to replace the LMG.

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Yeah, but at 45AP per burst and about the worst accuracy, vs. the best accuracy of marksman rifles and their almost-AR (single) rate of fire, it's no contest.

If you're min-maxing and power-playing rather than role-playing that is.

I mod my M-60 to 50% accuracy just like the M-16 has. That makes them a lot more useful and realistic. Anyone that knows about this kind of stuff, knows that an M-60 that is on a bipod and setup is at least as accurate as an M-16 (actually more, but I don't want to totally unbalance the game.) At 50% they are killers for any alien dumb enough to get caught out in the open. I usually have one strong soldier in the squad carrying this weapon with one extra belt and wearing armor.

I also modded the shotgun for shorter range, less armor pentration, smaller magazine, and more damage to mimic buckshot from a Mossberg 500. I increased the reload time to 50 AP since they have to be loaded one shell at a time.

The pistol I mod to be capable of 3 round burst. Shortened the range, reduced damage, and increased the magazine. This mimics a machine pistol (only an idiot would take a standard pistol as their primary weapon when a full auto version is readily available.)

Edited by StellarRat
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My only gripe with the weapon balance of the ballistics is the high AP cost on the LMG. Most soldiers can't move and shoot using the LMG in the same turn.
That's pretty realistic. Firing one from the hip is very inaccurate. They take a bit of time to setup. Machineguns are usually setup as a base of fire for the lighter troops that are moving up to assault an enemy position i.e. they don't move much.
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That is more to do with the heavy flag (reduced accuracy when moving).

You could fire without the set up time it would just not be very effective.

To better represent that the heavy flag could maybe give a larger penalty and the AP cost to fire be reduced?

The downside is that with the current suppression mechanic not being related to your accuracy you would still be able to effectively suppress the enemy even with zero chance of hurting them.

That may be why the AP cost is so high?

It prevents you from running round with the MG removing AP from the enemies as it is significantly more effective at that than other weapons.

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The downside is that with the current suppression mechanic not being related to your accuracy you would still be able to effectively suppress the enemy even with zero chance of hurting them.

That may be why the AP cost is so high?

It prevents you from running round with the MG removing AP from the enemies as it is significantly more effective at that than other weapons.

That reminds me, there is a problem with the suppression values in ALL full auto capable weapons that now. After the code was changed to suppress per burst instead of per round it became nearly impossible to suppress anything with auto fire. I went into all weapons and doubled the suppression value for burst fire. The devs are going to have fix this during balancing.

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The downside is that with the current suppression mechanic not being related to your accuracy...
I suggested that suppression be tied to how close the shots are to the target, but no one had any feedback. You'd think that being hit would be highly suppressive and near misses much more suppressive than just random shots hits stuff yards away.
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It's not exactly related but I have been having a lot of suppression resulting from near misses with the sniper rifle. Which is pretty much all I use. I think I have 2 shotguns, a heavy, and all the rest sniper rifles. At the beginning of the game nothing else seems to come close. The LMG was fun but I didn't like the spray.

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I like to roll with a balanced team, although I am giving up the LMG unit, since he never gets to do anything because of the ridiculous AP cost. While it's pretty realistic, it's also entirely useless with the game mechanics in mind. That said, my team usually looks like this:

Hunter (x1): Useful for mobile cover and suppressing guys

Scout (x1): High AP guy with a pistol, a spare clip and various utility equipment (grenades, C4 and later a stun baton). Overall a very useful and mobile person who can scout, heal, breach, set up entries and rush in for a stun. Light armor, of course.

CQ Guy (x4): Assault rifles/shotguns, a couple of grenades, heavy armor and med packs. Equipment can vary from person to person, though.

Sniper (x2): Currently completely broken with low AP cost but otherwise I tend to roleplay and use them to cover my advancing guys. They will often sit back and cover UFOs or buildings as much as possible, so any stray aliens won't go in and surprise my breachers.

Rocket guy (x1): Alternate means of breaching, taking out fortified alien positions and so on. I don't mind blowing out a wall or killing a particularly annoying enemy with AoE damage if needed.

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