I am an XCOM veteran and have now played XCOM: Enemy Unknown.

[tiger12348]

Generally, Hunker Down is a much better option than Overwatch.

I find Hunker Down to be a better option in the early game. Later on... maybe overwatching with a pistol? no ammo wasted on a miss, better than nothing on a hit, and sometimes you get lucky 2~3 of your guys hit the same target with pistols.

Edited October 27, 2012 by tiger12348

[Sinfullyvannila]

Interesting read:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/xcom-enemy-unknown/1226388p1.html

This guy knows his stuff.

[Vivisector 9999]

I could swear that someone posted that link in another thread, but no matter. It's a good read and I agree with most of it.

I actually liked a lot of the new XCOM's streamlining, and the removal of TU's didn't hurt the tactical game as much as I feared it would. Playing on Ironman Classic/Impossible can get just as tense as the old X-COM ever was.

Still, even though I really enjoyed the new XCOM overall, it felt like something was missing. It feels very scripted at times, and I missed the "simulation" feel of old X-COM. If the old X-COM wanted an alien leader for a research project, it didn't care whether you got that alien from a larger UFO or an alien base - and the aliens could have as many of those bases as they could get away with. The new XCOM isn't so flexible. It's like "Capture an Outsider alien. Now assault THE alien base. Now assault THE Overseer UFO. Now do this..." Always in the same order. That (and the small pool of maps) hurts replayability a bit.

So I'm still looking forward to Xenonauts. It can have that simulation feel that the old X-COM had.

[AvistTorch]

I think it's because nothing you do on the Geoscape in the new XCOM really feels like you're being proactive or "striking back" against the aliens. With the Graphs system in the original, you could send out patrols to try and catch the aliens off guard or find an alien base. Building a new base for radar coverage and attacking alien bases felt like you were pushing back against the invasion.

While I enjoy the new XCOM, that's one of the feelings that I think is mostly missing -- I mean, you can put up satellites, but you can have the globe covered before about half the game is over, where in the original it would be a lot trickier to do and wouldn't matter much until you got expensive Hyperwave Decoders in each base. The story-missions sequence really wouldn't feel so out of place if there were more ways to be proactive in the game.

Edited October 27, 2012 by AvistTorch

[TrashMan]

Interesting read:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/xcom-enemy-unknown/1226388p1.html

This guy knows his stuff.

To each his own. I disagree with the man.

It's good game, but I find it lacks a lot of what made X-Com, X-Com.

[APelz]

Also, don't even get me started again on how little REAL horrific atmosphere from the original games have survived into this one.

Hmmyes, aliens felt more "menacing" when they showed no feelings or motions in original, here in this new XCom I'm always insta-annoyed when I see those stupid chuckling floaters after they kill someone. Makes the game feel so frakking cartoonish.

How is that any different from the original game?

Both games start off by giving you easy aliens to kill with your piddly guns. Both games give you gradually better gear, and gradually harder aliens to kill. And it all culimates to a big overall "boss" like some f-ing mario game in both the old and new game.

I could complete the OG by using laser guns only (for example) on veteran or some middle difficulty and because damage was greatly randomized I could kill larger heavy enemy units with few shots from laser rifle if I was lucky. Also there were plenty of smaller easy'ish missions to train my rookies. As you know, there were plenty of small UFOs to shoot down.

In new Xcom it starts to frustrate more or less to see enemies with more and more rows of clinical health blocks and because I know that my lazors do only certain amount of damage... It's like "awwww, so many health blocks to grind". Game is clearly telling me that I HAVE TO start using those damn plasma weapons if I want to complete the game, unless I want to lose my hair like Bruce Willis. And what chance do I have to level up my rookies? They can't hit a thing with their ~35% acc and seem generally useless in those "very difficult" muton missions that game seem to throw at me couple of times in a month.

So addicting, so infuriating...

Where is normal currency? Atleast normal numbers of it - millions, thousands. USA - if I will complete mission on their soil they will award me with 4 scientists (sounds like scientists are slaves right?).

Apparently devs didn't want gamers to load their brains with nonsense math tasks regarding financial management. It really shows what part they liked in the original (tactical) and forgot the rest, globe view having no use, no storage management etc. etc. Maybe to them all this stuff was boring but to me it's half of the game missing. Now it's just buy stuff until run out of money -> wait for council report as I can't sell alien weapons (fragments) etc. stuff anymore like in original if I didn't use alien weapons as everything may be needed to research/manufacture things.

Edited October 27, 2012 by APelz

[Sinfullyvannila]

I pretty much just used laser weapons up until the very last mission. It was pretty obvious that Plasma was superior in the old one too.

Do people really get upset that there aren't a bunch of zeroes on your currency? Wasn't pretty much everything's cost in the original pretty much a nice round number anyway? It's really hard to take someone seriously when they complain about something as small as this.

[Simberto]

I pretty much just used laser weapons up until the very last mission. It was pretty obvious that Plasma was superior in the old one too.

Do people really get upset that there aren't a bunch of zeroes on your currency? Wasn't pretty much everything's cost in the original pretty much a nice round number anyway? It's really hard to take someone seriously when they complain about something as small as this.

Plasma was superior, but the ammunition costed elerium. Which was really rare. I used Lasers for most of the game because i didn't want to waste my elerium on ammunition. Especially when even if you fired a single shot from a plasma rifle that was a whole magazine gone, which in turn was 2 elerium. Meaning If you had 10 guys, each of them fired a shot, and you maybe even flew there in a Avenger, the whole mission already cost you 30 elerium. That could have been 1-2 flying suits if you had used laser weapons.

[Kaguya]

Plasma was superior, but the ammunition costed elerium. Which was really rare. I used Lasers for most of the game because i didn't want to waste my elerium on ammunition. Especially when even if you fired a single shot from a plasma rifle that was a whole magazine gone, which in turn was 2 elerium. Meaning If you had 10 guys, each of them fired a shot, and you maybe even flew there in a Avenger, the whole mission already cost you 30 elerium. That could have been 1-2 flying suits if you had used laser weapons.

When'd you actually need to make any ammo? It's not like every alien didn't run around with a plasma weapon, and you end up swimming in mags.

Plus the whole "unload mag at the end of mission to not lose it"-glitch.

[AvistTorch]

Plasma was superior, but the ammunition costed elerium. Which was really rare. I used Lasers for most of the game because i didn't want to waste my elerium on ammunition. Especially when even if you fired a single shot from a plasma rifle that was a whole magazine gone, which in turn was 2 elerium. Meaning If you had 10 guys, each of them fired a shot, and you maybe even flew there in a Avenger, the whole mission already cost you 30 elerium. That could have been 1-2 flying suits if you had used laser weapons.

With all the aliens using Heavy Plasma by the end, I never actually had to build any clips -- just recovered them all (and more) at the end of the mission.

[poulwrist]

The new XCOM game is great. It's kind of as simple as that. The whiny "it's not like the first one" posts are just stupid and miss the point. It's a good game in its own right, and it's fighting an uphill struggle trying to introduce a genre that's been dead for 25 years to an audience used to disposable 5 minute online bouts of Call of Duty.

If you want a game that's the old XCOM, don't go looking at a brand new game made for 2012, go play a game from 1994, made for 1994. This pathetic fanboyism is just silly.

[HWP]

I mean, you can put up satellites, but you can have the globe covered before about half the game is over

Use Second Wave with marathon and diminishing returns.

$800 per sat near the end changes things.

It's a good game in its own right, and it's fighting an uphill struggle trying to introduce a genre that's been dead for 25 years

Sorry, it hasn't.

X-COM is only 15 years old.

And this isn't X-COM, this is a small squad tactics cover-based shooter. That's Ass Effect 3 right there, only more turn-based.

[TornadoADV]

Sorry, it hasn't.

X-COM is only 15 years old.

And this isn't X-COM, this is a small squad tactics cover-based shooter. That's Ass Effect 3 right there, only more turn-based.

We get it, you have a hard-on for hating on the Mass Effect series, shut up about it and stay on point. Also, you know what isn't X-COM? XCOM, direct your anger at that instead of EU. Also, UD was a small squad tactics cover-based shooter unless you were feeling frisky with the Avenger, using 26 warm bodies and trying to make the 80 item limit glitch not bend you over.

[Skyrage]

Plasma was superior, but the ammunition costed elerium. Which was really rare. I used Lasers for most of the game because i didn't want to waste my elerium on ammunition. Especially when even if you fired a single shot from a plasma rifle that was a whole magazine gone, which in turn was 2 elerium. Meaning If you had 10 guys, each of them fired a shot, and you maybe even flew there in a Avenger, the whole mission already cost you 30 elerium. That could have been 1-2 flying suits if you had used laser weapons.

Well, you definitely did not want to use plasma weapons against sectopods either with that insane resistance to them and all. If unlucky you could easily spend over half a dozen shots in order to take one of those suckers down. Only vulnerability it had was laser weapons so this was the only exception to plasma superiority. Frankly original X-Com could've used slightly more resistance variations in order to make it more interesting.

Overall though laser rifles would be considered King thanks to the auto fire and infinite ammo. Ain't nothing that would beat a team of 10 or so soldiers with laser rifles and auto fire spamming...not to mention the amount of elerium you end up saving and cash you make by selling off all plasma weapons

[Sinfullyvannila]

Use Second Wave with marathon and diminishing returns.

$800 per sat near the end changes things.

Sorry, it hasn't.

X-COM is only 15 years old.

And this isn't X-COM, this is a small squad tactics cover-based shooter. That's Ass Effect 3 right there, only more turn-based.

X-Com is 19 years old.

I guess you are right though. XCOM is tactics based and UD did not require tactics.

[TornadoADV]

X-Com is 19 years old.

I guess you are right though. XCOM is tactics based and UD did not require tactics.

UD requires tactics, unless you don't understand what "Tactics" means.

[HWP]

We get it, you have a hard-on for hating on the Mass Effect series, shut up about it and stay on point. Also, you know what isn't X-COM? XCOM, direct your anger at that instead of EU.

You got it wrong, I don't hate ME. I'm pointing out that aside from one being turn-based and the other RT+Pause, even ME3 is, genre-wise, not far from EU. So EU - which is XCOM - is hardly gravedigging a forgotten genre.

Also, UD was a small squad tactics cover-based shooter

Not really. UD did not rely on explicit cover combat (it had cover, but cover-shooters have its effects almost cheat-like), it used large squads (at minimum you'd have 2xHWP+6xMen=8, later 4xHWP+12xMen=16), not 4-man extensible to 6, it had a developed strategic layer.

X-Com is 19 years old.

All three parts still count as X-Com, inc. Apocalypse.

[Sinfullyvannila]

Ah, I thought you meant specifically UD.

[TornadoADV]

You got it wrong, I don't hate ME. I'm pointing out that aside from one being turn-based and the other RT+Pause, even ME3 is, genre-wise, not far from EU. So EU - which is XCOM - is hardly gravedigging a forgotten genre.

EU is closer to UD then XCOM is, so I refer to both TB series as X-COM and the FPS XCOM as XCOM.

Not really. UD did not rely on explicit cover combat (it had cover, but cover-shooters have its effects almost cheat-like), it used large squads (at minimum you'd have 2xHWP+6xMen=8, later 4xHWP+12xMen=16), not 4-man extensible to 6, it had a developed strategic layer.

Cover in UD did a great job of sparing your men from the Heavy Plasma spam of the late game and is arguably more effective in it's role in UD then EU. In EU, it's a mathematical function, in UD, it's a physical barrier that will block any shot (excluding explosives) which is why windows were so awesome. Even if a round was supposed to hit your guy, if it traveled too far down, below the waist of a standing XCOM agent, it would impact that wall and save your guy.

Also, I ran an elite, top heavy squad of only 1 HWP and 10 troopers. I felt no need to use the Lightning or the Avenger, but I loved the Firestorm, shooting down battleships in 50's era design flying saucers is pretty lulzy.

Edited October 29, 2012 by TornadoADV

[TrashMan]

I'm not a fan of the cover and armor system of the new XCOM. Mostly because it doesn't "feel" like cover or armor.

Armor is extra HP. I want it to be actual armor.

Cover is to-hit penalty. I want it to be a physical barrier.

[HWP]

EU is closer to UD then XCOM is, so I refer to both TB series as X-COM

Is there some sort of confusion? The new game is called XCOM:EU. It's not called "X-COM". It's one of the ways to tell them apart.

Also, I ran an elite, top heavy squad of only 1 HWP and 10 troopers.

That's 11 units. Larger than USMC squads at 9 or Soviet squads at 8.

If you use Avenger, even with its usual load of 4+12 or 3+16, you approach a small platoon.

EU has you command a fireteam of 4. Only later is it extended to 5 and 6, and that's it, not even a squad.

[Kaguya]

The map sizes of XCOM support that squad size, however, as does the challenges it pits you against.

It's not like in X-COM where you split your guys up the moment they stepped off the skyranger and sent them in their merry way in different directions in smaller groups.

XCOM is largely moving the 4-6 you have in a single team, fighting against alien teams of 3-4 at a time, with the occasional larger conflict. The game design is inherently different in that regard.

Squad size isn't something that makes one better than the other, the environments/challenges in both supported whatever it was set at.

[HWP]

It's just something that makes them dissimilar and different in genre (subgenre if you wish), which is the point here.

[Sinfullyvannila]

It's clearly dissimilar, but I don't think it(or any of the other changes) are remotely enough to put them into different subgenres.

[dracopticon]

Interesting read:

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/xcom-enemy-unknown/1226388p1.html

This guy knows his stuff.

I don't care if the "guy knows his stuff". That's your evaluation. Not mine. XCOM:EU IS definitely dumbed down, when you play a game where facing means quite a lot to seeing the enemy or not, especially when using the "overwatch" tactic, but I can't control the facing in this crappy game! And I can't choose the exact way my men should run, as going from one point to another is totally controlled by the computer/game itself. That means my XCOM operatives sometimes run right INTO the overwatch of the aliens, instead of the smarter way I want them to run! And that's in addition to all the other stupid stuff of this game, like you can't pick up stuff from the ground, you can't tactically shoot at walls to uncover hiding aliens. You can't throw stuff between XCOM members, and you're not allowed to carry normal amounts of stuff into battle. No XCOM:EU IS dumbed down.