Gijs-Jan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 So A.I.! I've heard you guys were having a rough time with the subject, and after seeing a job opening I applied for the position! A small introduction: I'm a quite passionate game developer, specializing in A.I., living in the southern part of the Netherlands. Important answers for insight into the persona: - Chrysalid, Chrysalid, Chrysalid - It's called UFO: Enemy Unknown, dammit - UFO > Terror from the Deep >>> Apocalypse - Flying Power armor was O.P.; Real men play without. Now onto the good part: I want to be quite open on the A.I. development and plan to keep a journal. The journal should be approachable by anyone (it shouldn't be technical) and the first two posts can be found here: Xenonauts A.I. - Introduction Xenonauts A.I. - Knowledge Systems Pt. 1 Furthermore, feel free to ask me any and all questions, apart from specifics on game content. Also, I hope this thread turns into a discussion so you as a community can help guide me in the construction of the A.I.! Confident he will break your unfortunate A.I. coder streak, GJ (Callsign Methius) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyDylan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leimboy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome GJ! Thanks for keeping us updated through the journals. Interesting stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Good to see a developer with strong convictions. Your posts are very approachable. I do have a question already, actually. I once read somewhere (can't remember where) that turn-based games allow the a.i. to be more mature and advanced in its response to the player, because it has more time to consider the state of the game. Would you say that was true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khall Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome to the forums, It'll be good to finally have better A.I. than run around randomly and shoot everything or stand still and shoot everything. Looking forward to race specific A.I as well, help give aliens there own unique identity. Journals were very interesting to read as well. Got a couple of basic ideas of how I think they should behave: NPC soldiers - Either guard/patrol an area or advance towards UFO (set up perimeter), high emphasis on cover Ceasans - Standard A.I., high emphasis on cover Sebillians - More reckless, tendancy for close range ambushes, retreat when below % health Androns - Disregard cover (and walls), constantly advancing on your troops Any idea on when they'll be a A.I. update? (Can't remember the last time we had one so I'm quite excited) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The basic AI model should be in place by 9th October (ie. beta). There'll be a small AI update in V14 this weekend but don't expect anything too impressive yet. It's a big task and it takes a bit of time to pull it all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnarly Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome GJ, and very interesting blogs; I've spent a fair bit of time playing ARMA, in which there are quite a few AI behavioral mods, so it'll be interesting to see your continuing blogs on your development work. Interesting comment you make on the overhead of AI decision making processes in FPS shooters (ARMA probably having the highest, being essentially a sandbox environment) compared with turn based games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome to the forum GJ. Looks like you enjoy a challenge and you should find a few of them dealing with us I will be looking forward to pitting my 0.5 wits against your AI creation soon. I know you haven't been on board long but I am curious to see how much modability you will be able to build in to the AI system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome! I approve of your approach of goal-oriented path-finding. I especially like your assigning goals to civilians instead of the usual random movement. Since '94 I've wanted civis to actually try to hide or move to the dropship for protection from behind the xcom lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks for the warm welcome! [...] I do have a question already, actually. I once read somewhere (can't remember where) that turn-based games allow the a.i. to be more mature and advanced in its response to the player, because it has more time to consider the state of the game. Would you say that was true? In general sense, this is true. Rather simplified: in realtime games (from a NPC perspective), the A.I. is mostly reactive as its calculation time can be measured in milliseconds, if not less. Turn-based games however, generally allow (and require) the A.I. seconds of calculation time as we hope to beat the player in planning, not in reaction-time. It does depend on perspective though: in realtime games we could have an extra overarching A.I. that takes its time to calculate correct squad positions. The whole problem is that in realtime, the A.I. constantly needs to keep up with new information, in a continuous environment. In turn-based games, the A.I. is spoonfed events and can take its time analyzing them. [...] Looking forward to race specific A.I as well, help give aliens there own unique identity. Journals were very interesting to read as well. Definitely a major point, and one I am taking my time to get right. Next couple of journals should focus on this. [...]Any idea on when they'll be a A.I. update? (Can't remember the last time we had one so I'm quite excited) Don't expect anything big soon; it's a big undertaking and I'm trying to do more than several months of work in a very short time. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauddlike Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Are you planning equipment specific AI as well as race specific? Hoping to see snipers gravitate towards building and rooftops for clear lines of fire while melee or short range types focus more on cover hopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendence Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome! I look forward to screaming at my screen as your A.I. preforms a violent, unnatural selection upon my hapless kill team with burning plasma death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) I know you haven't been on board long but I am curious to see how much modability you will be able to build in to the AI system. I am designing everything with modability in mind. However with A.I. it's rather tough to have both "intelligent-decision" making AND complete control over what the A.I. can do. In other words: you'll need to trust the A.I. to make the right decision. In essence; mods will allow the enemy units to change behavior (P.e. Rambo-style <-> Cover-sneaky-ninja-style) quite easily, but they probably won't be able to exactly tell them what to do. Since '94 I've wanted civis to actually try to hide or move to the dropship for protection from behind the xcom lines. Can't have civies becoming too smart! But maybe I'll allow the randomization to produce some that are smart enough to run to the dropship. :-) (If they can last long enough to get there that is..) Edited August 23, 2012 by Gijs-Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gijs-Jan Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Are you planning equipment specific AI as well as race specific?Hoping to see snipers gravitate towards building and rooftops for clear lines of fire while melee or short range types focus more on cover hopping. Yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You reminded me of the article on FEAR's excellent AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeniy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Nitty-gritty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Welcome GJ, nice to see someone who's both dedicated and knows what he's doing finally tackle this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Caine Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think the thing most people want to see is civvies acting like smartie-pants. If you can manage reasonably smart civvies by the time the beta rolls around, there will be some very smiley faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thank you for doing the write ups on how the AI is going to work! It looks really good and I like how you are explaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The only thing I want to know is if the AI is going to cheat. Example: Will it base it's actions on only what it has or can see on the map? Or is it going to cheat and make decisions based on knowing where all Xenonauts are located? Will it know what kind of weapons all Xenonauts are carrying or only on what it has seen a unit fire? Etc... Finally, please, please, please don't make the AI hide the last alien on the map so you have to search every part of the town for hours to finish a map! Consider having it surrender, do an banzai charge, or blowing itself up along with as many civilians as possible, anything but hiding in a closet! I'm with Max on the civilians. They ought to run for cover and stay put. If an alien or Xenonaut approachs they ought run away or in the case of Xenonaut at least make room for them to get by. They definitely shouldn't run around in circles or back and forth in open ground. Or into burning buildings or fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Looking forward to receiving a good spanking. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeraan Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Knew your avatar seemed familiar! http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/gamedesign.htm Glad to know you're also a fan of MoO Looking forward to seeing your work in action! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) You know, I dread to think what the size of your FSM rough diagrams are going to be and how much paper they're going to use as they get silly large very quickly *flashbacks to Theoretical Comp Sci lectures and coursework at Uni*. Good to finally see progress on one of the biggest aspects of the game though! Good luck. Edited August 23, 2012 by Buzzles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thothkins Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Looking forward to receiving a good spanking. =) Are you sure you've come to the right forum Gazz? A big welcome to Gijs-Jan! I'm looking forward to reading the journals so a very big thanks for taking the time, in what must already be a pretty hectic schedule to keep us all educated & informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorlom Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Finally, please, please, please don't make the AI hide the last alien on the map so you have to search every part of the town for hours to finish a map! Consider having it surrender, do an banzai charge, or blowing itself up along with as many civilians as possible, anything but hiding in a closet!Doesn't Alternate victory condition already fix this? I'm with Max on the civilians. They ought to run for cover and stay put. If an alien or Xenonaut approachs they ought run away or in the case of Xenonaut at least make room for them to get by. They definitely shouldn't run around in circles or back and forth in open ground. Or into burning buildings or fire. Some should. If the civvies always save themselves what's the point of having them in the game? It just makes the phase the player isn't in control of longer and somewhat tedious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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