chihwahli

Permanent death no !

43 posts in this topic

At normal level do not have permanent death. At hardest level I don't care.

Players at normal difficulty are not hardcore enough to survive the carnage! Have some pity !

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I disagree completely. Permadeath is one of the defining traits of X-Com-a-likes, and is a good reason why players have large squads. Take permadeath out and you may as well have a 6-man squad for all it matters.

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If this cannot be changed, then please add a save option.... after certain amount of steps or so... It's the continues restarting and the randomness that makes it sometimes irritating.... ow die...hmmm have to start all over again...don't want my chars to die on me...

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It's possible someone will mod it later to remove permadeath, but as far as I know the X-com likes that did not have permadeath got a lot of crap for that.

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Gorlom is correct. UFO: Exterrestrials got a lot of criticism when it came out, and the lack of permadeath was high on the list.

It's also true that someone will probably mod permadeath out (just as people long ago modded permadeath back into UFO: ET).

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permadeath is a 100% must in a proper x-com revision - normal difficulty included

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another voice for the permadeath being an absolute must. ET was much better the moment it got modded back in. Losing some of your most cherished troops teaches you to keep 'em safe and also mourn their loss. All good for game play.

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Taking out permanent death of your soldiers will ruin the game.

It's their experience (and now added medals!) that gives value to each soldier and putting your best troops at risk of dying is one of the main tension creating devices in the game.

It also means the players choices have worth.

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If this cannot be changed, then please add a save option.... after certain amount of steps or so... It's the continues restarting and the randomness that makes it sometimes irritating.... ow die...hmmm have to start all over again...don't want my chars to die on me...

+1 for permadeath, choices have consequences, I would even be ok with limited/no saves allowed during combat in the normal+ modes.

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Yeah, it's a must (even on normal) and game saves will be implemented (if they haven't already).

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Awwww pooky, do you want an "instantly beat the game button" while we're at it? Don't worry princess the game will go easy on you. Here have some barbie dolls, on the house! :)

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I think permadeath is a core part of this game type. It is a risk reward factor that goes beyond the individual mission. It has some negative issues for newer players (aka me) but it also helps add tension to every choice. Without it I would just zerg rush the alien ship every game. I think easy is a nice compromise as it gives the player more buffer from their errors.

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You can always hire more fodder... I mean brave protectors of the Earth.

Unless things go terribly wrong and you lose your last combat capable squad then permadeath isn't going to be that big a problem.

It adds an emotional twist to losing your troops that just isn't there if you know they will be fine.

Sending your best and brightest into a defended enemy ship is nail biting if they might die, it is just a few button clicks if they can't.

Having said that the chance of survival after a mission in which they are knocked down (which already exists) should be able to be changed, either in the xml files or as part of a custom difficulty level.

That will allow people to use a perma life mode if they choose to without it being added as an official gameplay element.

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Once you accept that you will lose soldiers and take it as an inevitability you will start enjoying the game more, same with actually losing a play through. If you are constantly saving and reloading to get a "perfect" game you will quickly become bored because it will just become frustrating and annoying to keep doing that it will take any sense of danger out of the game as well, you can just charge ahead blindly and once your soldiers get shot and killed you reload the game and you then know where the enemy is.

I used to be that kind of player that were saving every single turn and redoing it in X-Com and other similar games and I was getting tired of it, then I saw someone else play completely differently and Never reloading a game unless something bugged out beyond the game's intended design. I started doing the same thing and I enjoyed the game SOOO much more and feel stupid for reloading saves as I did before that.

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Once you accept that you will lose soldiers and take it as an inevitability you will start enjoying the game more, same with actually losing a play through. If you are constantly saving and reloading to get a "perfect" game you will quickly become bored because it will just become frustrating and annoying to keep doing that it will take any sense of danger out of the game as well, you can just charge ahead blindly and once your soldiers get shot and killed you reload the game and you then know where the enemy is.

I used to be that kind of player that were saving every single turn and redoing it in X-Com and other similar games and I was getting tired of it, then I saw someone else play completely differently and Never reloading a game unless something bugged out beyond the game's intended design. I started doing the same thing and I enjoyed the game SOOO much more and feel stupid for reloading saves as I did before that.

Well put, I only save regularly because I don't have time to play full missions atm.

As long as there are enough options available to be tweak and adjusted then hopefully everyone will be (relatively) happy.

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Gonna throw in with the lot speaking for permadeath. It's a nice change in all these holding-your-hand games of today, and it's X-COM!

There's no tension in having my veteran breacher go through a door if I know he'll just be stitched back up at the end of the mission. Neither will there be those "What have I done?!" moments when your best man bites the dust due to an alien missing his intended target and striking said Rambo in the face instead (poor Hawkeye, I still remember him one-shotting Snakemen from across the map).

No, I like permadeath, for me it is another way of getting involved with my troops (those who make it at least, nevermind the nameless redshirts). Plus it's always fun to see that one guy who's survived everyone else three times over drag himself from under a pile of alien corpses, knife in mouth, pistol in one hand and extraterrestrial intestines in the other, ready to fight one more time.

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are you saying that he's going to strangle an alien with the intestines of one of it's comrades? Jeez, no wonder they don't like us much :)

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Permadeath is a defining element of the genre.

There's always the "Easy" setting. Maybe have it as an easily found option, I'm perfectly ok with that. Then make sure all achievements have a Permadeath (i.e., Normal) version and a no-permadeath (Mr. Restartsalot) version. That way people can't brag without being found out.

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You've gotta have the tension and worry that losing soldiers brings to the game!

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are you saying that he's going to strangle an alien with the intestines of one of it's comrades? Jeez, no wonder they don't like us much :)

Of course, while knifing the third alien and shooting a fourth. They wanna genocide us, we'll genocide them right back!

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+1 perma-death!!!!! XCOM would not be what it is without perma-death.

You always have a Save option to 'rewind' if necessary.... Didn't save before losing your level 20 elite sniper major???? Then time to recruit/train up a new one!! and be more cautious with him/her/it (? will we get android cross-breeds or something?? ;D) next time.

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the ufo: X games were a big let down with their non endless supply of troops at your disposal, in a game like that i can see having your soldiers getting knocked out instead of dying (i dislike the term permadeath).

the biggest factor in xcom is the equipment being used, you retain the tech level, and might even recover the equipment itself, so the loss of a troop, no matter how elite is significantly different than the games that actually coined the term permadeath (JRPGs). in those games when your character died it was game over, have to restart from the beginning, this game is nowhere close to that.

so all in all, no this game does not have permadeath, though it does have death. why doesn't it have permadeath? because you only suffer an experience and money loss with each death. if you compare this game to diablo 1 (a western RPG which isn't considered to have permadeath, aside from hardcore mode) you can see that only the ufo: X games had permadeath. what you are asking for is somewhere between godmode and just plain old death, sometimes referred to as the party death system (only death of the entire party results in any penalty what so ever).

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It's certainly death as far as the soldier's grieving relatives are concerned though. Cdr Gauddlike (curiously shot poking around in the back of the Chinook) isn't coming back into the game, so it's pretty permanent as far as he's concerned.

I agree that it's nowhere near a game over scenario. You can always reload the game here, which for me means it's not really permadeath either. Considering the lack of skills that really make the soldiers stand out, it's hard to imagine any of the losses being irreplaceable. That's one of the benefits of having a pool of soldiers to advance.

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Permadeath on an individual soldier level rather than on a game level is what the OP was referring to.

True permadeath only really works where you as the player are represented by an avatar in the game world.

If you were shown in the base when the aliens attacked and they could kill you then that should be permanent.

As it stands none of the ground troops are representing the player so it doesn't matter so much when they get killed.

The player is a disembodied entity that can't be interacted with and therefore killed.

You can of course be beaten but only by losing your funding or having your ability to perform your role taken away.

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