69 posts in this topic

The reason TFTD ( Terror from the Deep ) was so much more fun than Enemy Unknow was the

addition of underwater missions. To be honest I dont care that its not possible in what ever

time period this game takes its events from. Its not like I will be sitting there going " ohh man

how can they go to the ocean floor and not imploded" I dont care about that bullshit.

Dont limit your self to what the time period made available because if something is

fun its not going to bother people.

Plus it makes the repetitivesness of missions on the ground break from the norm.

Its so cool that you can go underwater and see different suits weapons and different

land scapes. Its gives the game a fresh breath of air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"addition of underwater missions"? Didnt the game revolve around underwater misssions with the occational terror site above the surface?

I dunno if you would be bothered by how weapons worked magically underwater or if you expect a completly seperate techtree for the... well second game that you want to cram into Xenonauts.

Would UFOs contain different Aliens depending on if the ship crashed above land or sea? It causes a balance issue too since theres no location where the UFO just dissapears when shot down.

Personally I think this causes so much issues that it's not worth forceing it into the first game.

You already have different suits as you progress through the game above the surface. and theres going to be 5-6+ tilesets/landscapes already.

Edited by Gorlom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both types of missions in one game would definitely make for a good variation.

The amount of work involved makes it incredibly unlikely though.

I didn't enjoy TFTD anywhere near as much as EU.

The underwater mission tiles were boring and having some of the equipment only work underwater annoyed me.

Plus those cruise ships should all have been torpedoed instead of boarded, the missions were so mind numbing :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus those cruise ships should all have been torpedoed instead of boarded, the missions were so mind numbing :P
Oh god yes! The cruise ship missions were terrible, horrible and did I mention terrible? Not to mention the artifact sites. Three levels ftw! TFTD was too "heavy" for me. It simply took to long time and was far too unforgiving (Lobstermen, really?) to mistakes. XCOM was harsch, TFTD was silly. At least that's how I felt. The game also didn't feel quite that compelling as XCOM did. It was darker and more scary, but it was so scary you expected to lose, rather than clinging to that last thread of hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TFTD was tough going in places. That was with plenty of enthusiasm for it when it came out. Some of the missions seemed to drag.

I remember having a wounded soldier die because his teammate couldn't reach him from across the incredibly long battlescape. A couple of endless hunt the last alien missions, after having already spent ages on the mission getting all the others.

I also thought that the sea floor was just a bit..well..dull. COmpared to the barns and building of the first one, there just didn;t seem to be the same creepiness as the first one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah this was written off a long time ago because it's a lot of work and we're too small a team to do it, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, TFTD revolved around ground missions and underwater missions with all

the special missions you find on the Original X-COM and much more, such as

the CruiseShip missions (which I found challenging, but tons of fun)

In TFTD it didnt matter where you shot down the Alien ship, you can always

land your squad and collect those precious alloys and all the goodies inside the ship.

Its get borring doing ground missions over and over again. IMO

Althougt Xenanouts wouldnt really need to have different aliens for underwater missions

since they are light years more evolved than humans. They would have no problem breathing

under water.

The same would go for Alien Weapons, using them under water would be no problem.

What would make the addition very complicated in this game is how to get a Helicopters underwater.(You can't)

Maybe they drop into the water with a mini Sub.

The soldiers can have special suits for underwater and the weapons could stay the same.

AR-17's shoot underwater , sure the bullets dont have as much power but like I mentioned

ealier I dont care about realism. Its a Sci-Fi strategy game with aliens!

Again its not easy to add it, thats for sure but It would give this game a huge edge.

TFTD was way more fun than EU, IMO.

Chris I understand where your coming from , but its just a suggestion and as you can see

a feasible one with much more man power of course!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Plus those cruise ships should all have been torpedoed instead of boarded, the missions were so mind numbing :P

A: "Have you heard about all the terrible stuff that's happening again? Like when the aliens invaded but this time they come from under the sea?"

B: "Yeah, it's horrible, isn't it? Hey, let's go on a cruise to forget about all that."

Sane person: WTF?!

These people don't deserve better than a torpedo. I mean, seriously.

@topic: I'd rather have other additional mission types (like VIP extraction, civilian evacuation, infrastructure defense, large scale battles where the Xenonauts participate as vanguard or support or spec ops team, rebellion and terrorism handling against indoctrinated humans (using Mass Effect lingo here since I currently play it :D ), ...) than underwater missions that don't add a lot to gameplay (and - at best - as much as these other additional mission types) while creating a lot of problems (additional tech tree, immersion breaking, where do you put your subs (which bases get a harbour, underwater bases yes/no, ...) that other mission types don't create.

I really can't see the difference between a crash site mission on land and below seas. It's the same thing in blue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I remember correctly in TFTD you could never shoot down USOs over land; they could fly (as could XCOM's subs; I never really understood that) but not engage in mid-air.

I agree that underwater is just another terrain type, rather than a new mission type, and one with a whole boatload of problems attached; I don't personally see it. And while NastyNative might be OK with the weird jump in tech level, for me I think it would break immersion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it's been a long time since I played this, but is it true that "it didn't matter where you shot down the alien ship?" I recall ship missions and island missions and a port terror attack, but I don't remember shooting ships down on land and going off on retrieval missions. That would have been a merging of the two games.

I do recall picking the wrong blooming equipment for a terror mission and practically having to mug the aliens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Althougt Xenanouts wouldnt really need to have different aliens for underwater missions

since they are light years more evolved than humans.

Please refrain from useing measurements of distance to describe measurements of time if you want to be taken seriously. Thank you.

They would have no problem breathing under water.
You are suggesting that all alien races have adapted to live in 2 enviroments at lenght without any negative impact on how they perform in either? No webbed feet for moveing around in water but hampering their speed on land? 2 vastly different breathing systems? Or are they all landbased but can just hold their breaths a really long time?

Sure you can decide "this is how it works period", but I wont be happy about it. (Yes, that is my opinion I dont speak for every other gamer. You don't have to point that out)

The same would go for Alien Weapons, using them under water would be no problem.
I disagree. This pushes the suspension of belief for me.
What would make the addition very complicated in this game is how to get a Helicopters underwater.(You can't)

Maybe they drop into the water with a mini Sub.

The soldiers can have special suits for underwater and the weapons could stay the same.

AR-17's shoot underwater , sure the bullets dont have as much power but like I mentioned

ealier I dont care about realism. Its a Sci-Fi strategy game with aliens!

If everything is going to be the same then what's the point of haveing underwater missions rather then some other landbased tileset?
Again its not easy to add it, thats for sure but It would give this game a huge edge.

TFTD was way more fun than EU, IMO.

How? It's just another tileset? Edited by Gorlom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is way too complicated to actually do, unless you planned to do both mission types from the start of development, but interesting to think about how it could have worked.

Underwater combat would have to be seriously reworked.

Rather than the same combat with a different tileset it could actually allow people to swim rather than walk on the bottom.

A wetsuit as basic armour to begin with but after that you could just have the same upgraded armours and claim they have buoyancy aids built in.

If you made the breaching armour too heavy to float while the lighter scout armour can you have a tactical choice to make.

Tie heavier weapons to the heavier armour or make carried weight adjust how high a trooper can swim.

Some aliens, for example Androns (waterproof robot) and Sebillians (amphibians?), could conceivably operate both above and below the water.

Team them up so the heavy Androns are walking along the bottom while the lighter armed Sebillians can swim.

Add another underwater specific race, with some alien vehicles, and you have a basic enemy lineup already.

There would need to be another basic weapon tier that could operate below the surface, the current ones just would not work well.

The final tier could be set to work just as well in both and just add a laser/plasma equivalent specific to underwater missions.

Less tech advancement than the ground based research but enough to keep people happy.

The same could go for craft.

At the start you need different craft for each environment but the higher tech versions would be able to operate in both areas.

This could make them weaker in general than the specialised ones but more versatile as a gameplay option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rather than the same combat with a different tileset it could actually allow people to swim rather than walk on the bottom.

A wetsuit as basic armour to begin with but after that you could just have the same upgraded armours and claim they have buoyancy aids built in.

This crossed my mind when I was typing my last post about keeping TFTD missions into tile sets that would work more easily into this game. You could allow alien craft to land on the water and force your poor xenonauts out there with wet suits on. Then of course there are all the swim graphics and the wet suits... glub!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please refrain from useing measurements of distance to describe measurements of time if you want to be taken seriously. Thank you.

You are suggesting that all alien races have adapted to live in 2 enviroments at lenght without any negative impact on how they perform in either? No webbed feet for moveing around in water but hampering their speed on land? 2 vastly different breathing systems? Or are they all landbased but can just hold their breaths a really long time?

Sure you can decide "this is how it works period", but I wont be happy about it. (Yes, that is my opinion I dont speak for every other gamer. You don't have to point that out)

I disagree. This pushes the suspension of belief for me.

If everything is going to be the same then what's the point of haveing underwater missions rather then some other landbased tileset?

How? It's just another tileset?

Gorlom stop posting just to post you make no sense.

Measurement of distance and measurements of time???

The Fact that aliens exist in the game is already pushing the Sci-Fi envelope of the game. So basically

aliens can exist in the game and we can add them to the game but to add their weapons and abilities

we need to make sure that they are realistic??? Sure that makes sense!

Why add aliens period, we can go kill Terrorist! That would be realistic idea since you want

everything to make sense!

Its a SCI-FI strategy shooter, so please explain where these aliens come show articles to back up

your statements since you’re so obsesses with everything making sense on a Sci-Fi game. Yes, I do need

to point it out cause you act like your idea is the only idea! (I'll point it out again)

Not only in my post either, but mostly on the entire forums.

I guess your little Pre-Order Super tab makes you king of the forums..lol

Here is the definition of Sci-Fi -is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".[1]

For your last 2 questions please read my last post. Read it slowly this time!

Also Im not sure if Europe got a different type of X-COM TFTD.

The Us version allowed me to take down Alien ship anywhere

on the map. Not only over the water.

Edited by NastyNative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Us version allowed me to take down Alien ship anywhere on the map.

I think you post it from parallel universe. In our realm tftd has only underwater crashsites and no any interception above ground.

Edited by zzz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...

Why add aliens period, we can go kill Terrorist! That would be realistic idea since you want

everything to make sense!

That's all I took away from that and thought it was a fucking amazing idea. I'd love to play as a Rainbow Six type CT team tasked with 'neutralising' terrorist events. From the 60s onwards with kidnappings and airliner hijacks through to fictional and staged events.

The only problem would be designing the levels to accomodate multiple approaches. Otherwise you might tire of having to use a set-piece tactic over and over again. Oh and the other problem would be the PC (political correctness) crowd (Daily Mail readers) who would shit all over it saying you could let innocents die...

Oh well it was a nice dream while it lasted.

On topic: Underwater fights would be shit, slower paced than on land and I can only think of turning the green aircombat overlay blue and letting you have ship-to-ship fights underwater. Of course you could always shoot them down over the water, ask James Cameron for his sub and go down there and loot the fuck out of it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gorlom stop posting just to post you make no sense.

Measurement of distance and measurements of time???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-year

A light year is just under 10 trillion kilometers. You were saying the fictional aliens are10 trillion kilometers more advanced then us.

Do I make sense now?

Its a SCI-FI strategy shooter, so please explain where these aliens come show articles to back up

your statements since you’re so obsesses with everything making sense on a Sci-Fi game. Yes, I do need

to point it out cause you act like your idea is the only idea! (I'll point it out again)

Not only in my post either, but mostly on the entire forums.

I guess your little Pre-Order Super tab makes you king of the forums..lol

Don't be so high and mighty. You are doing exactly the same thing to me as I am doing to you. Especially with your rant about not careing about realism since it's SCIFI.

I am free to disagree, and to put forwards my reasons for disagreeing. I am not saying that my view is the only view and that everyone that disagrees with me is wrong by default.

You are more obsessive about sci-fi and realism then I am. Sure sci-fi is fictional but you give me the impression that to you there's no middle ground. Either it's realistic or it's completly out there and flying unicorns shoot rainbowlazers out of their mylittlepony "cutie marks" (or whatever the image they have on their hind legs are called). Are you of the opinion that one should push for as much as possible to be baseless if anything is or could be possible that to some people compomises look far more attractive?

Sci-fi enthusiasts USUALLY want advanced equipment to work under the technological principles and theoris upon which they are based. As far as our understanding of them goes.

TFTD didn't use lazer and plasma weapons under water, this might be because the game needed to reset the tech back to basics. Or because they simply aren't possible to use under water without boiling your own head.

Here is the definition of Sci-Fi -is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas".[1]

This quote does not support throwing scientific principles completly out the window.

For your last 2 questions please read my last post. Read it slowly this time!
No matter how slowly I read it it still doesn't say why an underwater tileset is so amazing. You don't manage to convey that at all to me. Are you a sailing or diving enthusiast? Are you a marine biologist or carthagropher? What is the reason that particular tileset is so much fun for you? reallife interestst? the reference to TFTD? nostalgia? Do they have some special function that I have forgotten about?

EDIT: I too was under the impression that it was not possible to down alien crafts on land. That TFTD had an inverted map compared to EU.

EDIT 2: Infact I have now personally confirmed that the steam version of TFTD does not allow for airborn engagement (ie over land). A window informed me that mt craft could return to base or continue tailing the alien sub untill over water, whereupon it engaged properly. It presumably has to do with the weapons fired by the subs are torpedos rather then missiles.

Edited by Gorlom
Removed the comment: "Explain them again for someone that look at a clock or calender when he hears the word "lighyear". "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
flying unicorns shoot rainbowlazers out of their mylittlepony "cutie marks"

I'm going to be gutted if this doesn't replace Flying Suits in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too concur that TFTD never let you have land based missions except the terror sites. You could engage UFOs over land with your intercepters, but shooting them down over land wouldn't generate a crash site (like it does in Enemy Unknown).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If I remember correctly in TFTD you could never shoot down USOs over land; they could fly (as could XCOM's subs; I never really understood that) but not engage in mid-air.

I agree that underwater is just another terrain type, rather than a new mission type, and one with a whole boatload of problems attached; I don't personally see it. And while NastyNative might be OK with the weird jump in tech level, for me I think it would break immersion.

Correct. The torpedoes didn't work in air, so you could tail them in the air, but not actually attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry NastyNative, but while I got the gist of "light years more evolved than us", it drives me crazy to see light years used in that fashion (see Gorlom's response). Admittedly, misuse of light years isn't uncommon...

As to the inclusion of TFTD style stuff, why not consider that one for a mod? A lot of suggested implementation stuff that the Xenonauts team cannot reasonably do have been things that fans have considered doing themselves. (See the female soldier work oracle's been slaving away on).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you post it from parallel universe. In our realm tftd has only underwater crash sites and no any interception above ground.

Yes you are completely correct ZZZ.

I pulled out my original X-Com TFTD manual and you can’t even engage alien ship over land.

The reason I was so sure you could do this is simply because in or around early 2000’s there was

a bunch of Mods that were released. One of those mods that I played allowed me

To destroy ships over land and send in my squads (it combined both games into one).

Also there was a LAN party mod and I think we used a program called Hamachi to connect.

You could pick X-com or Aliens choose your battlefield (underwater or ground) Underwater

was always way more fun. My buddy and myself would play that for hours, fun times.

Although I remember the Guided Mini Nuke was so cheap in that game mode.

That's all I took away from that and thought it was a fucking amazing idea. I'd love to play as a Rainbow Six type CT team tasked with 'neutralizing' terrorist events. From the 60s onwards with kidnappings and airliner hijacks through to fictional and staged events.

There is a game like that it’s called Shadow Watch released in 2000 - http://www.gamespot.com/shadow-watch/ - Although not nearly as in depth as X-Com or as cool. Check it out, it was pretty fun. I don’t remember if they had any special mission. The game was made by

Red Storm a subsidiary of Ubisoft which makes the Rainbow 6 games.

Sorry NastyNative, but while I got the gist of "light years more evolved than us", it drives me crazy to see light years used in that fashion (see Gorlom's response). Admittedly, misuse of light years isn't uncommon...

It was simply a figure of speech not meant to be taken literally. I think you 2 guys have an issue with

that "Its called OC" I believe they sell pills for that. It’s not that serious..lol

I can’t imagine living my life and taking everything literally! I, on the other hand don’t let bullshit like that bother

me! Not to lash out at Sunshard or Gorlom, it’s just the way I see it!

Also I can’t believe no one has suggested underwater missions before I came along.

All my buddies that are looking forward to this game are also looking

forward to the addition of underwater missions to be added. We had so much fun with TFTD and its something

You peeps are going to have to live with I see TFTD as a more complete game.

Also the fact that I played UFO EU on both PC and PSone it might have played out

that game in my head. TFTD was just a fresh new look and I had fun killing

Lobsterman. Harpoon that bitch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nastynative, it's not a figure of speech, at least not outside of America, it's missusing the word plain and simple. Other people missunsing the term is not an excuse for you doing so if you know better. If you don't simply take the new knowledge to heart and stop defending the degradation of the english language.

Underwater missions has been suggested before you came along. It has been discussed and made clear by Chris that he won't be including it.

I'm saddened that you still can't elaborate as to why underwater missions are neccessary over other similar but less time consuming tilesets/missiontypes. From your last post it seems it has to do more with your memory of TFTD and how it compared (with mods) to EU then something tangible that you can explain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Underwater missions have been brought up a few times.

Chris has said he isn't interested in adding them due to the workload.

He has also said he is very unlikely to consider a Xenonauts sequel based on TFTD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair to the OP, I'd be surprised if most XCom players hadn't wished for a combination of the two games at one point or another.

With waves of UFOs it's understandable that the funding nations would focus on land only. 'Why do you want funding for submarines, when you've had to retrieve 50 UFOs from Utah alone this month?" But, back in EU when you rued every crash at sea for the lost resources, an option of going in and getting them would have been interesting. This goes back to my previous post about the tension of a mounting threat in EU compared to an immediate 3000 UFO threat in Xenonauts.

While it is only another group of tilesets, to a point, it's another group of tilesets. Huzzah!

The game strategy changes as you have to refocus your resources. Would it split the idea of base management up a little? Having a sub pen in a land locked country would look a little odd, so would you have designated sub pens on the coasts and could this be extended to smaller radar stations etc?

Countries with coasts would give you a whole new set of grief for not defending their haddock. "Tourists are terrified of going near our country's lovely coastlines. Your funding has been reduced."

A plus point in Xenonauts are the events on the geoscape. Ships get sunk etc. Now extend that to having a chance of intercepting a few of these and suddenly you have a new layer of interaction - with oil rigs, ship missions etc.

There would possibly be diverging storylines, if the aliens were getting T'Leth back up and running while operating out of a Cydonian base. Twice the fun.

Environmentally adapted aliens. Tentaculats and Bio Drone equivalents in the same game as Chrysalids and Ethereals. Yes please!

The issues with technology, base facilities etc aren't insurmountable in the slightest, as you would be combining a number of them together into a single set. Sonics for both, amphibious vehicles etc etc.

I imagine that updated graphics for underwater missions would make them creepier than the originals. It's a more hostile environment too, so the threat should actually be greater.

So, while it's clear that this won't be in the game and that there are no plans for a sequel, it doesn’t mean that it wouldn't have added an extra dimension to the basic game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now