(Mod Update) XNT Into Darkness V6.0 - "Hellgate" (DISCUSSION THREAD)

[radek]

PS: when a soldier falls down "to prevent psico strike" and drops all gear down, is there a button to pick it up in one keypress? It is annoying manually drag and drop all that gear back.

It drives me creAZY too. But it is not XNT thing.

I posted this and some others features at X:CE subforum - http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/12137-Suggestions-Interface-improvments

Pls look at this they more loud it would make the bigger are chances some devs will notice it.

[redmage123]

I've been playing with it. Some things I really don't like:

1. The new aliens like the Viper and the re-purposed Reaper are vastly overpowered, especially at the start of the game. They are almost impossible to kill with the basic weapons. Even if I get an armored vehicle with rockets, I still have the same issue. I fired two rockets at a reaper who took the missile damage plus explosion damage from a nearby car. Probably 100+ points of damage taken. Still not dead.

2. The flamethrower seems useless. Basically, everything that I point it at, including the Xenonauts themselves,"resist" the weapon

so it never does any damage.

3. The non-combatant aliens are pointless. They add nothing to the gameplay besides acting as bullet sponges (especially the non-combatant Caesians).

I liked a lot about this mod, but I've removed it because the above three issues (especially issue number one) make it unplayable for me.

I'd re-install it if I could somehow get rid of the alien modifications (i.e. ditch the non-combatants as well as get rid of the new aliens and just keep the basic ones with the original game).

-- redmage123

[drages]

Red just use explosions.. first 2 alien is easy. Bigger one just send all grenades to it..

Non combatants are very few just at first 1 month..

[TacticalDragon]

Mage thanks for you feedback but Im just wondering what kind of games you like.

1. Reaper and Vipers in this game are just different. Viper are hard at the begining but add lot of challenge that force the player to use new strategies. Right now Vipers are weak... too weak... If you cant handle with a bit of difficulty go an play Wii Games, they are to easy. This mod if for hardcore strategist.

2. Try or learn to use flamethrower. The art of the flame thrower is hard but not impossible, in the first missions a single flamethrower can save a full xenonauts platoon. Is impossible for most of the aliens armors resist flames, is impossible.

3. Read again, NON COMBATANT, and is possible that you dont test the Mod long enough to face a Alien Spine Thrower. And read again.... NON COMBATANT, that say something to you?.

Is a shame that you cant deal with that little difficulty. In XNT V5.1 (Considered the hardest version released) I know a player that reach final mission.

Good luck !

@All other players!,Thanks for your support and feedback!!!!!

[OrionVL]

Mage thanks for you feedback but Im just wondering what kind of games you like.

1. Reaper and Vipers in this game are just different. Viper are hard at the begining but add lot of challenge that force the player to use new strategies. Right now Vipers are weak... too weak...

Yes, TD!

Make a Vipers and Gargols more like in 5.1, because now they are to weak.

[blackwolf]

Is a shame that you cant deal with that little difficulty. In XNT V5.1 (Considered the hardest version released) I know a player that reach final mission.

I miss those vipers too :c....now playing veteran feels like easy vainilla u_u.

[redmage123]

Mage thanks for you feedback but Im just wondering what kind of games you like,

Why does this matter? I'm attempting to provide honest feedback to you about what I don't particularly like in the mod, I'm not

making sarcastic remarks about you or your team.

1. Reaper and Vipers in this game are just different. Viper are hard at the begining but add lot of challenge that force the player to use new strategies. Right now Vipers are weak... too weak... If you cant handle with a bit of difficulty go an play Wii Games, they are to easy. This mod if for hardcore strategist.

Again, why dismiss me and recommend that I go play Wii games? This is really not a great way to respond to feedback.

2. Try or learn to use flamethrower. The art of the flame thrower is hard but not impossible, in the first missions a single flamethrower can save a full xenonauts platoon. Is impossible for most of the aliens armors resist flames, is impossible.

I'm not fully understanding your comment here. All I know is that every time I've used the flamethrower, every type of alien that I've used it on, as well as testing it by flaming Xenonaut team mates results in no damage (i.e. everything resists).

3. Read again, NON COMBATANT, and is possible that you dont test the Mod long enough to face a Alien Spine Thrower. And read again.... NON COMBATANT, that say something to you?.

No, it doesn't. My point was that the non-combatant aliens add no value, at least as far as I can see, to the game. In fact, they distract from the game because every time I move one of my Xenonauts they keep pausing because he/she sights yet another non-combatant which causes the Alien red symbol to flash on the screen and my xenonaut to stop moving.

Is a shame that you cant deal with that little difficulty. In XNT V5.1 (Considered the hardest version released) I know a player that reach final mission.

It's not about dealing with a little difficulty, it's about the fact that I hit a reaper with two missiles plus two car explosions and they don't

die, or about the fact that I'm having to deal with aliens in the beginning of the game that almost completely resist all of the weapons that my soldiers can access.

Not everybody plays mods the way you do. Please don't make the mistake of discounting feedback that controverts your world view.

Ideally, it would be nice to give the player a choice as to what things that he/she wants out of the game. It would be nice if there was a configuration file of some sort that allowed me to, for example, disable spawning of the new alien types.

-- redmage123

[Dapper]

<snip>

-- redmage123

1. That's basically how TD responds.

2. XNT 6.0 is easy and isn't particularly difficult (compared to most of the previous XNTs) so it seems like you need to get good. The actually hard version of XNT was version 5.1.

Also, yeah not everyone plays like TD but considering that this is extremely popular and well received I'd say you're outnumbered. Also there is a configuration file, it's called the XML files the game reads. Learn to mod if you want to make the game as easy as Vanilla. Alternatively play the vanilla game.

[ventuswings]

Yeah, I don't know if the tone is language thing or his writing style but I just accept that as unfortunate fact of life. The policy of modders also seem to be that they are making the game primarily for specific instead of mainstream audience (this is important; XNT has always been bombarded with complaint about difficulties by people who do not understand this, so people can really take aggressive approach if you haven't validated your credentials by first learning to play " mods the way you do". For example, calling Flamethrower useless immediately makes your opinion insignificant to most who learned this mod) - and your post was made after XNT 6.0 patch which made beginning alien including Gargols and Vipers, to aforementioned specific players, much easier so I'm not sure you will find much support.

If you wish to edit the game to fit more personal preference, all crew compositions + stats can be changed by adjusting XML files within XNT mod folder. Read about the details here:

http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com/forums/showthread.php/5046-Xenonauts-configuration-files

Edit: Actually, are you sure you have installed your mod correctly? There's lot of XML file weirdness with the recent modular mod integration, and flamethrower should most definitely kill or severely injure beginning aliens. After the early game, flamethrower is meant to be cast away. I recommend you check out some of LP on Youtube and see if the damage value the aliens are taking are similar to yours.

Non-combatant aliens are present on every game (and they are as much of a joke on the vanilla) so I don't understand your concern here. If your complaint is that they are too easy, easier early game is already acknowledged problem which hopefully developers will fix sooner or later.

Edited October 8, 2014 by ventuswings

[drages]

As i said, have at least 3 grenade per soldier.. when u see a big alien, drop your weapon to ground and send all grenades to him.. so 2 grenade per soldier its about 12 grenade at one turn.. 8 would kill it..

AS ppl said, its the easiest days of this mod.. Flamethrower is a bit useless at this mod but melee creatures are no more problem.. i hope it get harder soon..

[api]

@drages, how do you kill the (omega?) viper in alien base? It resists almost any weapon even after few grenades.

First time (I dont know even how ) I spammed it with gas grenade (purple) and captured the creature (it was sold for about 110 000).

But now I already take down 2 other bases by destroying energy core. All caesians there are just a joke comparable to that creature. Tried several times with gargoyle grenades, and advanced ballistic weapons: no luck. Maybe I need like 20 gargoyles into it? I tried ~ 12 and it did not died . And can not capture it anymore.

[blackwolf]

It's not about dealing with a little difficulty, it's about the fact that I hit a reaper with two missiles plus two car explosions and they don't

die, or about the fact that I'm having to deal with aliens in the beginning of the game that almost completely resist all of the weapons that my soldiers can access.

giving your point of view is not the same as giving a honest feedback..i now new players struggle with the early missions, but...at least you should try to play until two months had gone..i mean, what you are basically doing is:

"play a mission ...get killed" instead of just trying another tactics...make a few "try and error testing",using new squad compositions, just fling grenade everywhere and look if it work or something? . You just give up and say that the game is too dificult and are cheating, the problem about TD dont taking you serious is because you also dont take serious the Mod and The fact of giving a true feedback. I could bet that you dont even get unlocked the zhepyr rifle...pal dont get me wrong, im not bashing you with the hammer of "im good you are wrong!"...but if you say something like "that weapon is useless" dont expect a too serious answer..specially because flamethrower works very good by destroying the "enemy armor" first..thats why you get all those "resisted" message, if you dont understand the "armor system" work on the game then you should'nt jump into conclusions too quickly...also why you get that "harsh response"?, because the premise of the game is to have a challenge...if you feel vainilla was too easy, try this !..just imagine if you go to some chilli(spicy chilli pepper) contest...and they warn you:

This is the stronger chilli around here...are you sure you want to try it?.

but you ate it anyway, and then start to complain about how spicy it was...and saying that the chilli was wrong..the contest was wrong..everything was wrong..just because you cant stand that hot chilli pepper you ate.

I see you are a newcomer and i want to welcome you. Also you could notice this is a long thread..you could check and review a couple of pages before and you'll see plenty of tips and tricks how to deal with this.

Im not saying you are wrong, but you have to understand that if you instead. Started saying something like :

"Hey guys im new, and i dont know how to kill those stupids demons from hell called reapers..gosh they are driving me crazy, Also i found not use to the flamethrower...what i supposed to use it, can you help me with it?."

You would get a better response instead of just complaining about everything in the mod because you dont understand it(specially the GAME MECHANICS ITSELF).

Specially the part of the NON-combatants...they were present also in vainilla..so im a little curious on how you managed to ignore them in vainilla (where they are LOT MORE USELESS!). But gives you so many headaches and anger here in XNT?.

Hope you understand those points as the same way we all try to understand yours...cheers and hope you give the mod another try.

Edited October 9, 2014 by blackwolf

[drages]

@drages, how do you kill the (omega?) viper in alien base? It resists almost any weapon even after few grenades.

First time (I dont know even how ) I spammed it with gas grenade (purple) and captured the cre8ature (it was sold for about 110 000).

But now I already take down 2 other bases by destroying energy core. All caesians there are just a joke comparable to that creature. Tried several times with gargoyle grenades, and advanced ballistic weapons: no luck. Maybe I need like 20 gargoyles into it? I tried ~ 12 and it did not died . And can not capture it anymore.

u captured it.. wow.. I could not do that.. u made the hard part

the base battles are the hardest at this mod and u need lasers if u ask me. Game got different damage types. And if something resist it doesn't mean nothing happens. Just the damage goes to armor and armor will gone if u continiue firing.. still if u use wrong type of weapon to wrong enemy, it will take too long..

Vipers are dying with lasers easy. So if u got a heavy laser they won't be any problem. Just carefull about distance.. at base attacks big vipers rush to u.. I mostly stay at entrance until all the aggressive enemies come to me and dies.. if they breach my defence line I get back or stay hidden to use reaction fires. Remember the alien movies. Rushing to them never works..

As final plan, I run back to some long distance and get out from their sights.

Just don't forget. If u drop ur weapon on ground u can throw 2 grenades.. I didn't see any alien who survive 12 grenade..

I can say that wait lasers to attack bases or just attack other bases rather then ceasans... they are worst because vipers and mind control same time..

I hope it helps..

[SilverFalcon]

So far I have researched ENDGAME and waiting to get Fury to try it out. Almost finished.

First I would like to thank you for your work, I really enjoyed the MOD!

Bug report:

I agree with following, except I didn't have 5. - After report crashes, though I had quite a few during battles:

Now for the bug reports:

1. Coyote armor male picture is missing.

2. Cruiser (at least from what i can gather) dissembly workshop item is broken "####" shows as a name and does nothing.

3. Dissembly jobs cause crashes when you try to go to hangar screen during a dissembly job. Possible cause no 'plane' image to show in the bay.

4. Omega viper sometimes causes crashes in the ground missions. Possible cause one of the spirtes. As far as I can tell this happens when the viper interrupts because it always happens in my turn and when an omega is present and it can see my xenonaut. Not sure though.

5. After the end mission action report game crashes.

6. Some weapons are missing ap and/or stun damage values. Some are probably intentional some are inconsistent eg. single and dual warhawks have different stats and I don't mean the pellet count. You may want to scan weapons_gc.xml thoroughly.

All in all a great and complete mod. Adds many new items and features. Loved it and I wholeheartedly recommend it to all.

Thanks again.

7. Singularity cannon weight - even elite xenonaut in predator armor cannot carry it (0TU's)

Omega vipers:

I had quite a strange events when Omega vipers were present. After few turns, some caesan that changed color from red to blue or vice versa appeared and threw either acid granade or even C4 at incredible range and it immediately exploded.

The Omega viper attack is strange, I had some fights Omega vs Hunter vehicle, but it was inconclusive since sometimes I could't see the enemy when just a tile away because of the superstrong smokeskreen. The attack does not affect armored units (including well equiped xenonauts in later game).

Economy:

I found only one piece of equipment that would make mass manufacture economy strategy worthwhile and is anti-material rifle. Unless you can manufacture it, forget about making money by manufacturing stuff. Most of the stuff doesn't sell for the manufacturing costs and many not even for the material that is put into it (especially advanced armor).

Let us calculate costs of labor:

Most cost effective is having 1 living quarters + 4x workshop + 40x engineer which produces 1200 manday a month an costs 12500+4*25000+40*5000 = 312500,-

This means that manday costs approximately 260,5.

If an item is manufactured in 30 mandays, then minimal cost is material+30*260=material + 7815.

Another important figure is Return Of Investment (ROI).

Other than monthly expenses, you pay (invest) 450000 for the 4 workshops and 1 living quarters.

ROI tells you how long it takes before you get your investment back, I will provide 2 examples of Anti-Material Rifle (AMR) and Coyote armor.

Coyote:

Sell price:46900$

Material costs: 30800$

Work costs: 48md = 12500$

Total costs: 43300$

Profit per piece: 3600$

Profit per month: 25*3600 = 90000$ (1200 md/48md=25 pieces a month)

ROI (month): 90000/450000=20%

In other words, it will take 5 months before your investment returns and you start to make extra money. Not a great investment, considering game's pace, thought it would be very nice in real life.

AMR:

Sell price: 200k$

Material costs: 160k$

Work costs: 65md = 16930$

Total costs: 176930$

Profit per piece: 23070$

Profit per month: 18,5*23070 =~ 426800$

ROI (month): 426800/450000=~95%

In other words, you will get almost all money in one month and next month you have extra. Now it makes sense if you can spare 751250$ this month (investment + first month expenses) + 160000$ for the first rifle's material.

BTW I didn't account for delays as you need to build workshops and hire engineers (another 4days I guess).

Difficulty:

I played normal difficulty.

I did not have problems with vipers. I could kill alpha with just rifles, I used granades for for bigger ones or retreated. Having armored vehicle sure helps. Once having Antimaterial Rifles, the medium vipers were quite easy to kill. Unlike in 5.1 alphas were not much of threat, never killed by reaper or gargoyle.

I really enjoyed aliens using weapons that do more stun then direct damage. This means having bleeding unconscious casualties that you must take care of instead of instant kills by stray bullet.

What I was challenged with were alien explosive cannons. Sometimes even if I left high reaction xenonaut with advanced shotgun enough TUs, the alien would shoot first in CQB situation and suppress my xenonaut. Neither this nor cover heped much against this. I would give it more TU cost or look if it has enough reaction penalties.

There were times of increased difficulty because of research - I do not have the research trees, but I guess I made some wrong research decisions as I got laser tech just a week or two before MAG. I would advice to review the techtrees for "traps for newbies" - eg. ignoring some research that doesn't seem that important but may delay a lot of techs. Maybe some hints would be nice as well in research description.

Precision plasma and similar high power weapons meant one shot one kill for less experienced soldier in coyote armor. I got advenced armors later after disassembling something and could research each after another, it was just the gap after coyote.

First andron terror was quite a challenge that I loaded a few times, because all I could use was granades, machineguns and thunderhawk (and RPG). I used all my grenades and took alien weapons to win. I think this gave me the AMR which made it more possible to deal with androns and soldier class aliens.

Capturing living preator was challenging as it took so many of elmag granades and he can kill elite xenonaut in heaviest armor with just one shot. Shock battons became obsolete soon, those can't deal with armor.

In Air combat, only difficulty spike was introduction of multiple Heavy Fighters before heaving advanced crafts. Dealing 3 apollos vs 3 HFs was challenging usually leading to loss of one apollo and often having to repeat attack on last fighter.

Playing it on ironman and with having downed aircraft unrecoverable (i decomissioned downed aircrafts) would be challenging but pretty much possible.

If I were to play in on ironman, I would prefer to decrease variablility on recruits abilities. This would help in mass recruiting that is needed in such setting.

Edited October 9, 2014 by SilverFalcon

[SilverFalcon]

@drages, how do you kill the (omega?) viper in alien base?

When I started attacking bases I already had some MAG weapons and it was very easy to kill Omega.

In beginning stages of the games I sent hunter against it, but is smoked everything an later some (probably bug) caesan appeared and threw C4 grade explosive at me xenonauts. I rather avoided it then.

EDIT:

Now that I think of MAG weapons, I found MAG precision quite useless. MAG rifle is so good with burst fire, that it outclasses the precision rifle.

Magstorm is magnificent with predator armor.

Edited October 9, 2014 by SilverFalcon

[blackwolf]

Playing it on ironman and with having downed aircraft unrecoverable (i decomissioned downed aircrafts) would be challenging but pretty much possible.

If I were to play in on ironman, I would prefer to decrease variablility on recruits abilities. This would help in mass recruiting that is needed in such setting.

Both option could be modified in the gameconfig_xml:

<!-- AIRPLANE RECOVERY TOGGLE -->

<airplaneRecovery value="1" comment="If set to 1, lost airplanes will be recovered. Otherwise they are permanently destroyed" />

Change the 1 for 0

the other are the <!-- SOLDIER GENERATION VARIABLES -->, tweak the values as you please .

Also i dont suggest you or anybody to play in ironman, why?...because right now XCE are still WIP, so it would suck to lost and entire gameplay just by a nasty bug or ramdon CTD. In the personal i use a kind of "pseudo ironman"...save the closest i can from the site,just a few minutes prior the dropship lands. One savegame STARTING THE MISSION...and other one every turn, no matter what..so they killed your best soldier the Captain McAwesome with 90 on bravery and 300 on badass-nes? suck it, shit happens..save the game.

with this i could get back if the game:

*goes fubar for a ramdon crash or strange ctd(specially useful to provide savegames for bug splashing).Reload the Endingturn save.

*Something else happen that is out of your control(for example a electricity shortage, a ramdon pc shutdown or something)then reload from the start of the mission.

*Or the reload i use more, save prior the landing, why?, well because you get a new random map with a random enemies spawning somewhere else, this is the way i feel i dont cheat(or too much at least).

Using this solely 3 savegames, a big chomp of mental discipline, i go trough the game just cursing,crying and screaming and most important, ACCEPTING when those shit moments happens .

[SilverFalcon]

Thanks for tips, though I used both in 5.1. It first confused me that configs for 6.0 were in MOD folder and I didn't find the need to change it later in game (not loosing that many soldiers). But I think lesser ability variability would be nice default setting.

I didn't use ironman for 6.0 for pretty much same reasons + I did not want to into same situation that quite ended me in 5.1 on ironman. I couldn't stop all the Heavy fighters and it downed my Chinook just before reaching safety of base. Though I had one crew in reserve, it just felt I lost the momentum to keep up.

But I see ironman as a good standard for difficulty setting - it should be challenging yet possible without excessive amount of luck. I think 5.1 is much more playable with just crash-loading/strange event loading - see my previous comments on Omega viper strange events.

It is sure much more demanding emotionally and work-wise (keeping trained reserves, abandon challenging missions yet doing lot of less challenging ones...). This play I used a middle way.

Capturing that preator could be very costly. Without load I would use fresh recruits as cannon fodder to deplete its TUs.

Also berserking sucks - just cannot defend against, it is based on luck.

Though I found a good way to deal with mind control in larger ships - teleport lock. Just leave mindcontroled xenonaut on some deck, move others to next and last two stays on the teleports.

Edited October 9, 2014 by SilverFalcon

[drages]

Teleport lock is a good tactic. Ironman.. I don't like it.. I want to enjoy rather then making much more stress.. u need to calculate every move.. it would be very longer then normal game.. I like to play more heroic so I die and load many times..

Enemy got many aoe weapon. And we don't have any other then rockets.. Xcom style cannons and explosive shells would be nice. But even we have them I doubt to use because it make destroy everything..

Still explosive she'll mini gun would be cool. I create some cannons for predator armor but don't know when to add them to game.

Still waiting td full recovery..

[SilverFalcon]

Just finished final mission and twice it crashed after debriefing...

Not sure what went wrong, but i can provide a savegame if it would help.

[api]

I have a question about heavy fighters in air combat.

I was successfully just ignore them until those fighters start to escort bigger ships.

Turn rate and rate of fire of enemy missiles is just overwhelming for heavy fighters. I have one newly build corsair, several foxtrots, cheburashkas and saracens. Air weaponry is stock (astra, 3 canons, etc).

How to deal with those updated fighters?

[TacticalDragon]

I have a question about heavy fighters in air combat.

I was successfully just ignore them until those fighters start to escort bigger ships.

Turn rate and rate of fire of enemy missiles is just overwhelming for heavy fighters. I have one newly build corsair, several foxtrots, cheburashkas and saracens. Air weaponry is stock (astra, 3 canons, etc).

How to deal with those updated fighters?

There is a trick to deal with, try not to engage the figther directly, they are superior to human dogfigthers. Change the course and you will find a momentun when you can make a evasive roll and put just behind the figther for a second.

A Su-T10 can deal with Heavy figthers with a bit of skill.

[silencer]

Will this mod ever reach status finished or there is nothing more to add? When I will finish my vanilla XCE playthrough I plan using this mod.

[SilverFalcon]

How to deal with those updated fighters?

I fought them with Apollos first. Tricky as there is no room for error but can be done. Since I got Saracens and Corsair it was easy.

First switch missiles to manual fire (you need to time it well)!

Do not rely on evasion maneuvers, HF can shoot so often you cannot keep rolling.

Instead use one fast aircraft as bait, pull afterburner and fly "around" so HF fires behind you and turns around. Even Foxtrot can pull it for some time.

With another aircraft get quickly to firing position from side or behind.

With Corsair it is quite simple, just kill it with cannons (if you still have just basic cannons use it as bait). If it turns on Corsair, then evasion, change direction, turn it to bait and finish with the other aircraft.

If you have Apollo, you have only 2 missiles and sometimes one is not enough (perhaps depends on techs). Surefire method for scoring both hits is to attack from side and fire at half of your rage so that HF cannot roll away from missile max range. It is not always easy to get into such firing position, but I could pull it of many times. If you have third aircraft as reserve, you can kill it even if you cannot get into surfire position.

When attacking from behind and 1 hit is enough fire just one missile and when he evades it, immediately shoot the second before he can roll again. It is easier with Saracen as it has 4 missiles or you can use third aircraft to fire third missile with the second.

Edited October 11, 2014 by SilverFalcon

[Max_Caine]

silencer, I believe this total conversion mod is a "living mod", eternally subject to change, updates, bugfixes and addons. Your best bet is to pick a stable version of the mod and run with it.

[drages]

I just need all the alien weapons, just names and the fire types to add much more new..if someone got a list i will be very happy..

Especially wich one is making 9 squer aoe with mostly stun damage? i want to use nearly same at my cannons..